Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Stateofyou

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Teachers are professionals and they are scheduled to work those days. I really don't see how it is any different. It would have been better to shut earlier and maybe it should have been thought about when setting the holidays. It has been clearly established on here that the holidays can't change when they have been set. Also, many will be working over the holidays as well. They might have only a few days off over christmas, so no 2 weeks isolating before seeing vulnerable relatives.
Government have given the green light for 2 households to meet. It isn't compulsory, so it will be up to individuals to assess the level of risk they are happy with.

Really? You don't see how it's any different this year in the middle of a global pandemic and also in light of a new fast spreading strain? Okay then...
We can and should be able to make changes in light of new information. I don't think every little detail can be thought through in advance, either. Didn't I read that school calendars are set every three years? So how would they have known then what to do now? Other countries can change and be flexible when needed. There's no reason why we couldn't have a bit of forward thinking and proactiveness as well. But the DES isn't exactly known for that, are they?

meeeeh

There is a difference between being proactive and just being hysterical. In first case you make decisions because there is solid indication they would make difference (and I still can't see any reasonable arguments for closing two days earlier) and in the other case you make decisions because people on social media want them.

HerrKuehn

Stateofyou wrote: »

Really? You don't see how it's any different this year in the middle of a global pandemic and also in light of a new fast spreading strain? Okay then...
We can and should be able to make changes in light of new information. I don't think every little detail can be thought through in advance, either. Didn't I read that school calendars are set every three years? So how would they have known then what to do now? Other countries can change and be flexible when needed. There's no reason why we couldn't have a bit of forward thinking and proactiveness as well. But the DES isn't exactly known for that, are they?

Listen, I don't know if holidays can or can't be changed, but teachers on here have made it clear that they can't and they know better than me. The thing I meant about it not being any different, is teachers not being different to any other profession having to work that day. I understand it would be nice to have the days off but there isn't really any other reason than that.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

There is irrational over reaction. Possibly fueled by constant stream of media news. The result is that people are slow to go to hospital and seek help if they needed for non covid stuff. Funny thing I know more people who died or will die because their heart attack/cancer wasn't diagnosed early enough than I know of people who died of covid.

I'm not saying Covid is not bad but I was talking to a solicitor friend of mine who mentioned that she never had to deal with as many depressing separation or domestic violence cases as she does now. The fact is that more our lives are limited more potential there is for human suffering. That's why services as schools need to be open as normal as possible and as much as possible.

I'm not saying people are wrong to be worried but we have to be careful that the medicine doesn't cause more damage than disease.

You should have used all Caps.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1241935285916782593

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

There is a difference between being proactive and just being hysterical. In first case you make decisions because there is solid indication they would make difference (and I still can't see any reasonable arguments for closing two days earlier) and in the other case you make decisions because people on social media want them.

What is that difference? I've already outlined the rationale, so what in your view is hysterical. And people are people with needs and opinions so dismissing those because they're shared on social media which is completely normal in today's society seems like a ridiculously belittling position to take.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Scale - London has a population of 9 million. The highest borough has a 7 day of over 500 and a population of 257k. Only Cavan got anywhere close to those numbers, and it was pulled back without ****ting schools

Again, you asked for relevance and you quoted a number.

You got a response to both.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

There is a difference between being proactive and just being hysterical. In first case you make decisions because there is solid indication they would make difference (and I still can't see any reasonable arguments for closing two days earlier) and in the other case you make decisions because people on social media want them.

It's all ready been pointed out several times to you.

To give people a chance to isolate before spending time with vulnerable members of their families over Christmas.

Stateofyou

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Listen, I don't know if holidays can or can't be changed, but teachers on here have made it clear that they can't and they know better than me. The thing I meant about it not being any different, is teachers not being different to any other profession having to work that day. I understand it would be nice to have the days off but there isn't really any other reason than that.

I'm just about to jump on a call but to quickly say, unlike other professions, the education sector has hundreds of thousands (or a million+?) in it who will be working or otherwise learning in that environment just before they meet up with (hopefully limited amount of) other people over the holidays. I really think that's the most important point here...

HerrKuehn

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'm just about to jump on a call but to quickly say, unlike other professions, the education sector has hundreds of thousands (or a million+?) in it who will be working or otherwise learning in that environment just before they meet up with (hopefully limited amount of) other people over the holidays. I really think that's the most important point here...

There are over a million students, many of which will not be in school that week for various reasons. There are about 65k teachers, obviously also SNA/principal/other staff, which is a much smaller number than the million you were talking about.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

It's all ready been pointed out several times to you.

To give people a chance to isolate before spending time with vulnerable members of their families over Christmas.

Then they need an extra week.

Or did you get 7 days advice somewhere on Trump's feed since you seem to follow it.

MerlinSouthDub

Boggles wrote: »

It's all ready been pointed out several times to you.

To give people a chance to isolate before spending time with vulnerable members of their families over Christmas.

I don't often agree with you, but it makes total sense to close schools on Friday. A full week of isolating is much better than 3 days.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

Then they need an extra week.

They don't, that has all ready been pointed out to you several times as well.

joe40

HerrKuehn wrote: »

And there is nothing stopping people taking their kids out of school if they are able and feel the need.

From my experience right now, that is happening. It is better for schools to stay open but parents that are in a position to remove children for a few days later this week/next week to free up christmas so be it.
School closures should be done by public health authorities. I do agree parents however should be fully informed about case numbers
I can't imagine Tulsa coming down too hard on anyone for doing so.

HerrKuehn

joe40 wrote: »

From my experience right now, that is happening. It is better for schools to stay open but parents that are in a position to remove children for a few days this week to free up christmas so be it.
School closures should be done by public health authorities. I do agree parents however should be fully informed about case numbers
I can't imagine Tulsa coming down too hard on anyone for doing so.

I agree it is a good idea for those who can to take the children out early. One thing I would suggest that schools not do is arrange things on the Monday and Tuesday that will make the kids want to attend.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

They don't, that has all ready been pointed out to you several times as well.

Well show me where is the advice for 7 days.

The lowest recommendation I saw is 5 days and PCR test if you have prior negative test. Close contacts have to self isolate 14 days, 10 days is from the date of positive test.

Those who want to can take kids out 2 days prior. However there is also naive belief that if all kids are home 2 days earlier they will isolate when it's just as likely they will socialise since home visits and whatever else will be allowed from 18th.

Btw people who are visiting vulnerable people for Christmas are advised to self isolate already.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

Well show me where is the advice for 7 days.

I all ready have. But here it is again.

A publication from HIQA.

The duration of restriction of movements should be carefully informed with
consideration of the benefits and risks in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic.
The results of this review indicate that the widely recommended 14-day period is
likely to capture approximately 95% of individuals who will become symptomatic. In
contrast, a reduction to 10 or seven days would capture approximately 84% and
64% of individuals, respectively

You are welcome.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

I all ready have. But here it is again.

A publication from HIQA.



You are welcome.

So 64% and the other 36% percent will have false sense of security that they don't need to watch themselves.

I'm well avare of those numbers btw but I was asking you for any actual medical advice that says 7 days is good enough.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

So 64% and the other 36% percent will have false sense of security that they don't need to watch themselves.

64% > 0

:rolleyes:

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

64% > 0

:rolleyes:

Medical advice that says 64% is good enough?

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

Medical advice that says 64% is good enough?

Dig up.

the kelt

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I don't often agree with you, but it makes total sense to close schools on Friday. A full week of isolating is much better than 3 days.

It does to the majority of people apart from those who keep having things explained to them multiple times but just keep coming back with the same thing despite mutliple explanations.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

Dig up.

So you don't have it. Thank you.

As per usual there is not much substance in your answers once you remove the insults.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

So you don't have it. Thank you.

As per usual there is not much substance in your answers once you remove the insults.

It's a sound idea based on evidence and science.

If you parked your hatred for teachers for 5 seconds, you'd see too.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

It's a sound idea based on evidence and science.

If you parked your hatred for teachers for 5 seconds, you'd see too.

It's funny that you still didn't manage to find any public health official that advised 7 days. All you managed is another tedious personal attack.

The fact is that those who are worried kids will catch something in schools and pass it on should already pull them out and isolate. For the rest extra two days will either mean sourcing child minding or extra opportunities for kids to socialise outside school (especially secondary school kids). Both make absolutely no sense and are of no benefit to anyone.

Edit: also could explain to me are false accusations and petty insults a show strength for you? What do you think are you achieving with posts like that? Do I make you angry and powerless? It's fascinating in a way how a grown up can loose all control.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

It's funny that you still didn't manage to find any public health official that advised 7 days.

What's funny is, I never claimed they did.

You stated you couldn't see a valid reason for isolating for a week based on your perception that it wouldn't be enough time.

I pointed out to you that it would be based on scientific data for the majority of people.

You are choosing not to accept that, nothing I can do about that TBF.

So, as you were.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

Edit: also could explain to me are false accusations and petty insults a show strength for you? What do you think are you achieving with posts like that? Do I make you angry and powerless? It's fascinating in a way how a grown up can loose all control.

:pac:

No.

I neither insulted you or made a false accusation.

DSN

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I don't often agree with you, but it makes total sense to close schools on Friday. A full week of isolating is much better than 3 days.

In theory I agree but in practice with the lift of restrictions on 18th - how many will truly isolate? My son looking to be off only so he can meet up with the friends who say they not coming in next week & heading into town. No one I know is planning to keep their kids off next week unless there's a case in their class or a spike in cases in the schools locally over next few days. I'd say the kids in my sons class are all hyped up with the media speculation thinking Christmas has come early for them.

JDD

DSN wrote: »

In theory I agree but in practice with the lift of restrictions on 18th - how many will truly isolate? My son looking to be off only so he can meet up with the friends who say they not coming in next week & heading into town. No one I know is planning to keep their kids off next week unless there's a case in their class or a spike in cases in the schools locally over next few days. I'd say the kids in my sons class are all hyped up with the media speculation thinking Christmas has come early for them.

I could definitely see that with secondary school students. In those cases, from a societal perspective, they're better off in school than off school.

Easier to manage primary school kids and keep them isolated before Christmas. They should have made a decision to close primary schools on the 18th back at mid-term. I know the school calendar is set the March before the school year starts, but that's not to say that it is absolutely set in stone. Look at the North and how they closed for two weeks over mid term with hardly any notice.

That being said, we are where we are and there's no way schools can make the decision to close on Friday now. Anyone who is inviting elderly relatives to Christmas dinner should absolutely take their children out of school on Friday. Tulsa won't be coming near anyone this year. Otherwise, if you are just having Christmas with your immediate family, and are working next week, then keep the kids in school until the 23rd. This would also assist the teacher, as they will be exposed to markedly less children on Mon-Wed next week and hopefully that means there is less chance of them spreading infection from Christmas to New Years.

Blondini

meeeeh wrote: »

Edit: also could explain to me are false accusations and petty insults a show strength for you? What do you think are you achieving with posts like that? Do I make you angry and powerless? It's fascinating in a way how a grown up can loose all control.

Sure is...

lulublue22

DSN wrote: »

In theory I agree but in practice with the lift of restrictions on 18th - how many will truly isolate? My son looking to be off only so he can meet up with the friends who say they not coming in next week & heading into town. No one I know is planning to keep their kids off next week unless there's a case in their class or a spike in cases in the schools locally over next few days. I'd say the kids in my sons class are all hyped up with the media speculation thinking Christmas has come early for them.

Personal responsibility goes a long way. My children ( teenagers) will happily isolate so that grandparents can have a family Christmas. At this stage each family has to make their own decisions.