Schools closed until February? (part 3)

km79

Stateofyou wrote: »

In one week... :eek: that's shocking.

Yes

HerrKuehn

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1339195515385344008


Clusters over the past week

There are over 1.1m students in school and when you include education staff it would be over 1.2m people. There are 30k in care homes for example.

Lillyfae

History Queen wrote: »

Fire away. Just to be clear, to prove your point every single post that suggests closing schools early is a bad idea has to be responded to with allegations of teacher bashing.

Anyone who would like to see can do the search. I'm not going to search only for people to disagree with the search. There are three other threads by the way, the earlier 2 iterations of this one, and the ASTI one in CA.

If children have an at risk family member that they are planning to visit over Christmas then this should not be happening. If teachers have at risk family members that they are planning to visit over Christmas then this should not be happening. The whole of 2020 has been horrible for everyone, and unfortunately Christmas will have to be different this year.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

In one week... :eek: that's shocking.

Whats shocking? In the week before midterm there were 630 outbreaks and 46 in schools

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

Anyone who would like to see can do the search. I'm not going to search only for people to disagree with the search. There are three other threads by the way, the earlier 2 iterations of this one, and the ASTI one in CA.

Of course. How could people disagree with the search if you found posts that plainly agree with what you said was there. You're the one making the absurd claims while others disagree so it's up to you to back up what you're saying, also seeing as how you called for the thread search yourself.

Why does this thread always have to get so derailed by this nonsense.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats shocking? In the week before midterm there were 630 outbreaks and 46 in schools

That's shocking too...

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

That's shocking too...

I fail to understand, we have the lowest case numbers in Europe, yet 19 clusters accounting for 41 cases in schools is "shocking", even though it is less than half the rate prior to midterm

Dub81

awec wrote: »

There has been come clusters of cases in schools yes, it was bound to happen by the law of averages, I don't think this is evidence that it was wrong to keep schools open.

We've managed to control the virus and keep schools open, hospitals are not overwhelmed with cases.

Everyone wins. Kids get their education, parents are able to work so they can maintain an income to pay the bills, and teachers get to do what they tell us they love doing more than anything else, going to work and teaching kids.

well let me put it this way, had there been an outbreak on a construction site which is also deemed as an"essential" industry then NPHET would demand it be closed, in fact had it happened anywhere else they would be quick to come out and demand wherever the outbreak was close immediately, so what so differennt with schools, end of the day the virus doesnt give preferential treatment to different types of places, it would be like an admission that NPHET got it wrong thats why there hasnt been anything said, they said themselves that schools were not a major concern when it came to outnreaks when the dogs on the street know they are.

whats the difference, an outbreak is an outbreak


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0720/1154417-construction-covid19-coronavirus/

HerrKuehn

Dub81 wrote: »

well let me put it this way, had there been an outbreak on a construction site which is also deemed as an"essential" industry then NPHET would demand it be closed, in fact had it happened anywhere else they would be quick to come out and demand wherever the outbreak was close immediatey, so what so differennt with schools, end of the day the virus doesnt give preferential treatment to different types of places, it would be like an admission that NPHET got it wrong thats why there hasnt been anything said, they said themselves that schools were not a major concern when it came to outnreaks when the dogs on the street know they are.

whats the difference, an outbreak is an outbreak


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0720/1154417-construction-covid19-coronavirus/

Why don't we close hospitals when there is an outbreak?

Dub81

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Why don't we close hospitals when there is an outbreak?

if thats an attempt at sarcasm then you have failed misersably mate.

HerrKuehn

Dub81 wrote: »

well let me put it this way, had there been an outbreak on a construction site which is also deemed as an"essential" industry then NPHET would demand it be closed, in fact had it happened anywhere else they would be quick to come out and demand wherever the outbreak was close immediately, so what so differennt with schools, end of the day the virus doesnt give preferential treatment to different types of places, it would be like an admission that NPHET got it wrong thats why there hasnt been anything said, they said themselves that schools were not a major concern when it came to outnreaks when the dogs on the street know they are.

whats the difference, an outbreak is an outbreak


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0720/1154417-construction-covid19-coronavirus/

Ok, let me try again. It wasn't sarcasm by the way.
We don't close everywhere when there is an outbreak do we? We keep hospitals open too.

Dub81

I'm asking a very valid question here,NPHET so far, to the best of my knowledge have not mentioned anything at all about the recent outbreaks in schools in particular the school in Mayo where the principal decided to close the school but this was bizzarely overuled by the Dept of Education but most parents rightly decided to keep their kids at home anyway.

Anywhere else there is an outbreak, for example a construction site NPHET are quick to get their point across, so what is the difference between a construction site and a school, both are deemed as ebing "essential"

Dub81

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Ok, let me try again. It wasn't sarcasm by the way.
We don't close everywhere when there is an outbreak do we? We keep hospitals open too.

you havent answered my question

HerrKuehn

Dub81 wrote: »

I'm asking a very valid question here,NPHET so far, to the best of my knowledge have not mentioned anything at all about the recent outbreaks in schools in particular the school in Mayo where the principal decided to close the school but this was bizzarely overuled by the Dept of Education but most parents rightly decided to keep their kids at home anyway.

Anywhere else there is an oputbreak, for example a construction site NPHET are quick to get their point across, so what is the difference between a construction site and a school, both are deemed as ebing "essential"

no, a construction site, pub, restaurant etc are not essential. Hospitals could reduce cases massively by going back to emergency and essential only by the way. Why don't they do that? Well, because the cost of doing so would be so high that it wouldn't be worth it for the gain. The same goes for schools.

is_that_so

Dub81 wrote: »

well let me put it this way, had there been an outbreak on a construction site which is also deemed as an"essential" industry then NPHET would demand it be closed, in fact had it happened anywhere else they would be quick to come out and demand wherever the outbreak was close immediately, so what so differennt with schools, end of the day the virus doesnt give preferential treatment to different types of places, it would be like an admission that NPHET got it wrong thats why there hasnt been anything said, they said themselves that schools were not a major concern when it came to outnreaks when the dogs on the street know they are.

whats the difference, an outbreak is an outbreak


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0720/1154417-construction-covid19-coronavirus/

That was not their standard position on outbreaks(The HSE not NPHET). There were other sites with cases which remained open. They evaluated them on a case by case basis. The dogs are misinformed according to the HSE, their data suggests that cases in schools are largely coming from the community via households.

HerrKuehn

is_that_so wrote: »

That was not their standard position on outbreaks(The HSE not NPHET). There were other sites with cases which remained open. They evaluated them on a case by case basis. The dogs are misinformed according to the HSE, their data suggests that cases in schools are largely coming from the community via households.

also the staff room was highlighted as a cause for concern when the cases were reviewed before the midterm:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/staff-rooms-a-key-risk-for-spread-of-covid-19-in-schools-health-officials-warn-1.4414623

Dub81

HerrKuehn wrote: »

no, a construction site, pub, restaurant etc are not essential. Hospitals could reduce cases massively by going back to emergency and essential only by the way. Why don't they do that? Well, because the cost of doing so would be so high that it wouldn't be worth it for the gain. The same goes for schools.

The Government themelves said that construction was an essential service so your wrong, so again i ask the question what is the difference here between an outreak in schools and construction sites?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c9158-essential-services/#construction-and-development

HerrKuehn

Dub81 wrote: »

The Government themelves said that construction was an essential service so your wrong, so again i ask the question what is the difference here between an outreak in schools and construction sites?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c9158-essential-services/#construction-and-development

well it logically follows that schools are more essential than construction sites

Dub81

is_that_so wrote: »

That was not their standard position on outbreaks(The HSE not NPHET). There were other sites with cases which remained open. They evaluated them on a case by case basis. The dogs are misinformed according to the HSE, their data suggests that cases in schools are largely coming from the community via households.

ok a case by case basis, so a construction site in Dublin was closed down because of an outbreak, so why isnt this happening with the school in Claremorris?

NPHET havent prioduced much in the way of data surrounding outbreaks in schools, because they dont want to be seen as being wrong under any circumstances.

joe40

awec wrote: »

There was an argument to be made for moving the Christmas holidays to allow more time off before Christmas to allow for longer isolation before meeting families, with less time off afterwards.

Unfortunately they made it about getting extra time off work, and the public mood is one of utter weariness at the endless whinging of teachers.

I have never agreed with closing schools, but that is a ridiculous comment. The schools are open because of the hard work of students and pupils. Numbers in school are low and that is due to the measures schools have taken.

I have 2 teenage children and i have nothing but praise for their teachers. I do not see people raising concerns as "endless whinging"

I might not necessarily always agree but i accept that concerns raised are in the interests of public health not selfish gain.
The teaching profession and wider school staff in Ireland deserve our praise.

Dub81

HerrKuehn wrote: »

well it logically follows that schools are more essential than construction sites

your digging a hole for yourself here mate, first you said construction wasnt an essential servive and i showed you proof that it was, now your trying to imply that one is more important than the other,jesus :D

is_that_so

Dub81 wrote: »

ok a case by case basis, so a construction site in Dublin was closed down because of an outbreak, so why isnt this happening with the school in Claremorris?

NPHET havent prioduced much in the way of data surrounding outbreaks in schools, because they don't want to be seen as being wrong under any circumstances.

OK, to clarify NPHET advise only, the HSE are the ones who make decisions. That school decision seems to be a DES move in line with the policy not to close schools if it can be avoided. The HSE have regularly produced data on schools.

awec

joe40 wrote: »

I have never agreed with closing schools, but that is a ridiculous comment. The schools are open because of the hard work of students and pupils. Numbers in school are low and that is due to the measures schools have taken.

I have 2 teenage children and i have nothing but praise for their teachers. I do not see people raising concerns as "endless whinging"

I might not necessarily always agree but i accept that concerns raised are in the interests of public health not selfish gain.
The teaching profession and wider school staff in Ireland deserve our praise.

If they were about public health the messaging would have been about front loading the days off before Christmas.

It was all about extra days off. The poor teachers are tired. They are the only people in Ireland who've been working since March.

HerrKuehn

Dub81 wrote: »

your digging a hole for yourself here mate, first you said construction wasnt an essential servive and i showed you proof that it was, now your trying to imply that one is more important than the other,jesus :D

have a look at your own link, everything from retail to chaplaincy is on it. Are you suggesting that everything on the list of "essential" services is the same as schools? Essential services meant in this context that you could travel to your job during level 5.

Dub81

is_that_so wrote: »

OK, to clarify NPHET advise only, the HSE are the ones who make decisions. That school decision seems to be a DES move in line with the policy not to close schools if it can be avoided.

Do you really believe this, seriously like, NPHET bizzarely have some much clout in Ireland, only twice have FFG gone against them because they are afraid to make any decisions by themselves, what im asking is the silence from NPHET surrounding outbreaks in schools, anytime theres been any outbreaks whether that be direct provision centres, meat factories, nursing homes, construction sites and especially anything to do with travel which they have lambasted since the start they are quick to discuss it and almost demand something be done, but nothing whatsoever mentioned about schools, why is this, it's a very valid question?

Dub81

HerrKuehn wrote: »

have a look at your own link, everything from retail to chaplaincy is on it. Are you suggesting that everything on the list of "essential" services is the same as schools? Essential services meant in this context that you could travel to your job during level 5.

so are you trying to imply there is now a ranking of what are deemed to be essential serices like for example schools are number 1 and so on, if so then id love to see it because i cant say ive ever seen or heard of this before.

An essential service is an essential service, end of story.

HerrKuehn

Dub81 wrote: »

so are you trying to imply there is now a ranking of what are deemed to be essential serices like for example schools are number 1 and so on, if so then id love to see it because i cant say ive ever seen or heard of this before.

An essential service is an essential service, end of story.

Is this boggles? 15 posts in and maybe taking a slightly different angle since the ban?

Dub81

To illustrate my earlier comments about there being a lack of data surrounding schools, the below is the most recent data available, under outbreak location there is a lack of data, under Other* they have lumped in *Other outbreak location includes community, extended family, hotel, public house, retail outlet, travel related and all other locations.

which is bad enough instead of seperting different areas of outbreaks, but unless im missing something there is no reference at all to schools.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET).%2020201215%20-%20Website.pdf

Another thing - travel, the one industry which has probably suffered the most, and a pet hate of NPHET's, ive lost count the amount of times they have almost demanded people should not travel, and that air travel is dangerous ... BUT the actual data shows that travel accounts for 1.37% of cases, which on the grand scheme of things is miniscule, yet it's the one industry which they have continued to demonise.


Travel abroad, incl. possible travel abroad 1,047 1.37%

Dub81

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Is this boggles? 15 posts in and maybe taking a slightly different angle since the ban?

I have no idea what your talking about, but if you cant answer my valid questions then we'll just leave it at that.

Inquitus

Daughters whole class sent home til after the xmas holidays, been contacted by the HSE, awaiting a test date for her. Shutting down an entire class is not usually in the HSE playbook, wonder what happened, maybe the teacher tested positive?