Schools closed until February? (part 3)

khalessi

:cool:

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Well I think we can agree that this one is a bit different is it not? I mean unless of course you were working during the spanish flu. You were not working during this pandemic in the health care system and you don't know what it would have been like.
One of the differences you mentioned was PPE. From the same link provided earlier https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13581

April 11
"The INMO has called for action and clarity on the figures, including:

- A universal face mask policy for all workers in healthcare settings,
- More frequent and detailed publication of statistics on healthcare worker infection, including the source of transmission,
- Updated guidance on PPE and for occupational health, ensuring that healthcare staff are given appropriate and safe time for self-isolation."

PPE in the hospital system was not universally available at that time.

Oh experience of epidemics excluded, nurse experience excluded. Interesting. Actually I am trained to work in this pandemic all nurses are. Most of the senior nurse working in it were trained the same way as me and prior to pandemic had similar experience. I described myself as an ex nurse to a doctor recently and he remarked once a nurse always a nurse.
PPE was available in hopsitals in MArch however it was not up to standard as they soon found out. THe nurses called for proper PPE and were ignored. It was not until APril 21st/22nd that proper PPE was flown in from CHina and of the first batch about 40% was unsuitable and of the other 60% some was not what they expected and would have to get used to.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

:cool:

Oh experience of epidemics excluded, nurse experience excluded. Interesting. Actually I am trained to work in this pandemic all nurses are. Most of the senior nurse working in it were trained the same way as me and prior to pandemic had similar experience. I described myself as an ex nurse to a doctor recently and he remarked once a nurse always a nurse.

I don't doubt that you have the training to work in the pandemic. But you weren't working in this pandemic and did not have to deal with the risk of getting infected in the hospital. Particularly in the early stages when there was a lot more fear about the disease. My wife is a nurse, has been working through it and we had the stress in March/April worrying about her bringing it home.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I don't doubt that you have the training to work in the pandemic. But you weren't working in this pandemic and did not have to deal with the risk of getting infected in the hospital. Particularly in the early stages when there was a lot more fear about the disease. My wife is a nurse, has been working through it and we had the stress in March/April worrying about her bringing it home.

Part of my background is in infectious diseases. Having been there I understand the stress she is under. I am still in close contact with my nursing colleagues and know the impact this is having on them and the clapping is not doing it for them.

However, this thread is about schools and how they are being managed or not and as I said HSE had been dispicable as have the Dept. The schools are only open due to the staff in them.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

Part of my background is in infectious diseases. Having been there I understand the stress she is under. I am still in close contact with my nursing colleagues and know the impact this is having on them and the clapping is not doing it for them.

Would you concede that it was a much more difficult situation for health care staff between March and now than it was for teachers? Or would that be too much?

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Would you concede that it was a much more difficult situation for health care staff between March and now than it was for teachers? Or would that be too much?

I have always said it has been hard for nurses. I never deny that, I was one and know what they are going through. As had been said here by those who dont like teachers comparing hospitals and schools is ridiculous. But yet when it suits they drag them up. So here we are.

This isn't a competition, it is a pandemic and schools and hospitals are managed by different departments and differently.

I wont bother to ask if you agree that the schools have been mismanaged because on the outside all looks rosy which is the issue and you have made clear you think they are wonderful places to work but like many on here you dont have the behind the scenes experiences.

Similar to the person who in March/April recorded a corridor in St. James Hopsital which was empty corrridor and tried to claim the pandemic is made up. I laughed when I saw it, because as I pointed out at the time. The woman was in the corridor leading to outpatients which was closed at the time and nowhere near the wards or the Covid A&E. If she had gone there, firstly she would have been stopped and secondly she would have seen the reality.

Hospitals are difficult environments to work in but as a nurse I knew that if there was a problem occupational health would be there. If there is a susupected case among the staff they are swabbed for covid. My sister got swabbed 3 times in one week and then once a week later to the sure.

Schools despite the promises have not been treated on a case by case basis which is the issue most teachers have. THey are all been kept open for reasons pointed by JDD votes and for the FFG party to be the ones who got the schools opened and kept them open at all costs even to staff and students.

Claremorris with 13% percent of student body with covid and further students isolating should have been closed and deep cleaned but that would not suit optics.

hesaidshesaid

For the teachers on here - I am concerned that the relationship between the DES and school staff on the ground has been irreparably damaged by events since March. There was never much love lost, but all the Friday @ 5.30pm circulars and the general lack of support and understanding from DES ever since lockdown seems to have created a chasm of distrust. Their heavy handed approach to schools with outbreaks in recent days is just consolidating this. Thread on Twitter this eve about a Special ed school with multiple cases across classes, short staffed due to staff isolating which has been ordered to stay open tomorrow.

It's hard to know how to address this as a teacher without leaving the job and applying for a role in DES to see what the hell goes on in there.

lulublue22

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Would you concede that it was a much more difficult situation for health care staff between March and now than it was for teachers? Or would that be too much?

Why would it not be ? I don’t get this comparison between the two ? They are very very different contexts. Just because it is a difficult situation for nurses does not preclude schools from experiencing difficulties and issues. I fully support health care staff - I chose to believe that they are working to the best of their ability and if they raise an issue then I tend to believe that they have a reason to . I don’t view myself as comparable to them in any shape or form. That does not mean that I’m not in a position to raise questions and have concerns about my context. It smacks of Irish begrudery you couldn’t possibly have an issue cos x has it far far worse. It’s really not a competition.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

I have always said it has been hard for nurses. I never deny that, I was one and know what they are going through.

So you won't concede it was a much more difficult time for healthcare staff? I expected that of course.

lulublue22

There’s just no talking to some people really.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

So you won't concede it was a much more difficult time for healthcare staff? I expected that of course.

Did you not read what I wrote or is comprehension difficult. Jesus CHrist the anti teacher brigade on here are ridiculous. COuld someone without an agenda comment on what I wrote

Blondini

khalessi wrote: »

COuld someone without an agenda comment on what I wrote

Unfortunately that is a rarity. It's actually getting worse. Thread has very little to do with Covid a lot of the time, but is instead a soapbox for the bitterly inept.

hesaidshesaid

khalessi wrote: »

Did you not read what I wrote or is comprehension difficult. Jesus CHrist the anti teacher brigade on here are ridiculous. COuld someone without an agenda comment on what I wrote

Considering you are literally the only person on this thread with on the ground experience in both hospitals and schools, maybe it's time to stop engaging with those who don't/won't recognise this. Have been reading your comparisons with interest for months.

Darwin

khalessi wrote: »

Did you not read what I wrote or is comprehension difficult. Jesus CHrist the anti teacher brigade on here are ridiculous. COuld someone without an agenda comment on what I wrote

Khalessi, I wouldn't waste your time responding to that poster anymore. He has already stated previously that he finds teachers "entertaining" and is clearly here to troll.

Necro

HerrKuehn wrote: »

So you won't concede it was a much more difficult time for healthcare staff? I expected that of course.

Mod:

Can you please engage in good faith with other posters. There is no point in asking them a variety of questions and then shutting down when you don't get an answer you like.

joe40

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Would you concede that it was a much more difficult situation for health care staff between March and now than it was for teachers? Or would that be too much?

It was much more difficult for hospital health care staff in March, that is without doubt but GPs hardly saw patients face to face.

Teachers are now more exposed to larger groups over longer periods than hospital staff with much less zero PPE.

The teacher bashing on this thread is frankly ridiculous levels for some. I have always supported schools opening and staying open, but I'm grateful to the teachers for enabling that.

It would kill some people to give any praise or credit to the work teachers do.

This is not some competition between HCW and others.

Icyseanfitz

Hearing of a school in Kerry closing down with 17 cases, all staff and students told to isolate until the 30th, the department are a bloody disgrace, schools should be closed Friday for the safety of everyone going home for Christmas.

jrosen

There are obviously increasing numbers of people who are not restricting their contacts, who are seeing multiple groups of people over multiple days.

I wonder will all the covid + people and those who have been told to isolate actually do so?

History Queen

jrosen wrote: »

There are obviously increasing numbers of people who are not restricting their contacts, who are seeing multiple groups of people over multiple days.

I wonder will all the covid + people and those who have been told to isolate actually do so?

Oh God don't suggest that Covid + people would do such a stupid thing... can you imagine the consequences? To be fair I can't imagine anyone being that selfish or stupid.

km79

http://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1339321632431747072

jrosen

History Queen wrote: »

Oh God don't suggest that Covid + people would do such a stupid thing... can you imagine the consequences? To be fair I can't imagine anyone being that selfish or stupid.

Honestly covid + I’d hazard a guess they would follow rules. Majority anyway. However I can’t say I’m as confident for others who have no symptoms but who should be isolating.

Blondini

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Hearing of a school in Kerry closing down with 17 cases, all staff and students told to isolate until the 30th, the department are a bloody disgrace, schools should be closed Friday for the safety of everyone going home for Christmas.

A lot of students being kept at home at this stage in schools I'm involved with.
Just checked attendance today in a secondary school versus a year ago.

1 year ago : 56/545 absent.
Today : 162/586 absent

The general public have a much better grasp of the schools problem than the dogmatic minority on this forum. Most of them would not be on Boards.

Icyseanfitz

Blondini wrote: »

A lot of students being kept at home at this stage in schools I'm involved with.
Just checked attendance today in a secondary school versus a year ago.

1 year ago : 56/545 absent.
Today : 162/586 absent

The general public have a much better grasp of the schools problem than the dogmatic minority on this forum. Most of them would not be on Boards.

I wish every school was the same, we will have brilliant attendance next week :rolleyes:

History Queen

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1339321632431747072

I wonder why they can close but not Claremorris or the Special School (i think in Dublin) that is also under pressure (read full twitter thread for details)

https://twitter.com/allisonharmon68/status/1339219505734619140?s=19

lulublue22

History Queen wrote: »

I wonder why they can close but not Claremorris or the Special School (i think in Dublin) that is also under pressure (read full twitter thread for details)

https://twitter.com/allisonharmon68/status/1339219505734619140?s=19

There seems no logic to it ? 17 cases in a school with ~ 400 odd pupils closed and mass testing. 16 cases in a 125 pupil school with cases across 4 of the 5 class groups and not closed. I can’t make head or tails of the special school - seems spread across the 3 sections affecting children and staff and fairly substantial supervision / sub issues and forced to stay open. It seems a very clear H&S issue due to the higher staff pupil ratio in special schools. Also possible high potential for spread depending on level of care.

Van.Bosch

History Queen wrote: »

I wonder why they can close but not Claremorris or the Special School (i think in Dublin) that is also under pressure (read full twitter thread for details)

https://twitter.com/allisonharmon68/status/1339219505734619140?s=19

Where is the minister for education from I wonder?

khalessi

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Where is the minister for education from I wonder?

Down Cork or Kerry direction I think

Icyseanfitz

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Where is the minister for education from I wonder?

Be easy to say its because she's from Kerry, i however believe one school closes and another is forced open because Foley and the department don't have an iota what they are actually doing. Wouldn't surprise me if they forced the school in Kerry to reopen for the remainder of the term

awec

Blondini wrote: »

A lot of students being kept at home at this stage in schools I'm involved with.
Just checked attendance today in a secondary school versus a year ago.

1 year ago : 56/545 absent.
Today : 162/586 absent

The general public have a much better grasp of the schools problem than the dogmatic minority on this forum. Most of them would not be on Boards.

So while attendance is down, the data you present indicates that almost 3/4 parents are still sending their kids to school.

Not sure this indicates that there's any widespread public disapproval of kids going to school like you try to imply.

History Queen

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Where is the minister for education from I wonder?

Oh I know, but seriously, we don't really believe that she'll allow Kerry schools to close but not others? I can't understand why a clear statement outlining the rationale behind school closures or forced reopenings isn't made. At least then while people might still disagree with DES they might at least understand.

In my unqualified opinion the Special School i referred to above and Claremorris should have been closed on Health and Safety grounds, in the intersts of the wider community too.

Messi19

khalessi wrote: »

Down Cork or Kerry direction I think

Sure she looks like she's trapped in 1994 anyway