Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Blondini

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

But we want transparency and consistency from Public Health and acknowledgement that schools are not any safer than any other crowded building. School principals are best placed to identify their school's particular circumstances and that expertise should be taken into consideration when health and safety decisions are being made. Currently that is not the case.

Brilliant post.

With reference to the quoted part above, there are a number of people on this and the main thread, who hold a VERY high opinion of themselves, who refuse to see this, and instead rely on their selective and incomplete knowledge.

JDD

Deleted User wrote: »

Schools have averaged 4 cases per outbreak, acute hospitals have averaged 13, nursing homes 16.

To be honest, that's probably more to do with how close contacts are defined within a school as opposed to hospitals or nursing homes.

If they are only testing children in a pod, then of course there's only going to be four other children affected. If the child that sits behind them then develops symptoms, that is considered a new outbreak.

hesaidshesaid, your post was excellent. Very balanced.

As for Ramgrange, if my child had been infected in school I'd be raging about that no-mask funeral. But on the other hand, I'd also understand that it is very very difficult to socially distance during a time of mourning. It's not like a county final celebration or birthday or something.

JDD

JDD wrote: »

To be honest, that's probably more to do with how close contacts are defined within a school as opposed to hospitals or nursing homes.

If they are only testing children in a pod, then of course there's only going to be four other children affected. If the child that sits behind them then develops symptoms, that is considered a new outbreak.

If two children in the same class develop symptoms it is not considered a separate outbreak. An outbreak will remain open until 14 days have elapsed since the last contact with the last confirmed case. If in that time a new case emerges it will be added to that outbreak and the 14 days extended. Some outbreaks have been open for weeks. Also if you look at the data you will see up to 27 cases have been detected in some outbreaks. If there are asymptomatic cases not detected in the initial pod, they will come to light as kids are no more likely to be asymptomatic than their parents, in spite of what is continuously repeated

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If two children in the same class develop symptoms it is not considered a separate outbreak. An outbreak will remain open until 14 days have elapsed since the last contact with the last confirmed case. If in that time a new case emerges it will be added to that outbreak and the 14 days extended. Some outbreaks have been open for weeks. Also if you look at the data you will see up to 27 cases have been detected in some outbreaks. If there are asymptomatic cases not detected in the initial pod, they will come to light as kids are no more likely to be asymptomatic than their parents, in spite of what is continuously repeated

Thanks for that where did you find this out about how long outbreaks are left open?. Just wondering, why do you think the size of outbreaks in hospitals are larger than schools? I suppose on paper i would've expected school outbreaks to be bigger due to the lack of social distancing and (at primary level) masks.

Parent from school in killorglin on Newstalk now.

SusanC10

History Queen wrote: »

Parent from school in killorglin on Newstalk now.

Missed it. What did they say ?

History Queen

SusanC10 wrote: »

Missed it. What did they say ?

Just about their experience so far and how hard it has been on their son. Sounds like the community really rallied around them. Tough position to be in.

km79

http://twitter.com/ToniTaylor546/status/1339551647517859840

Dub81

Students at Kerry school advised to stay at home up until 30 December after 17 Covid cases confirmed https://jrnl.ie/5302658

Well well the plot thickens, except this time the students ordered to stay at home but the school in Claremorris must remain open... BUT still a wall of silence from Lord Tony and NPHET, instead he is droning on about how we are in a "precarious situation" despite being the lowest in Europe.

Will they ever admit they got it wrong, will there ever be any transparency and clarity from NPHET.

Is it any wonder so many don't trust them under any circumstances, and are just ignoring them.

khalessi

Dub81 wrote: »

Is it any wonder so many don't trust them under any circumstances, and are just ignoring them.

So in the last number of weeks through the grapevine of kids, I have discovered that a number of the kids I take have been absent due to Covid19. Some of these kids told me on their return. I approached the teachers who claimed no knowledge as we are not allowed inform each other and now I hear of another child who is absent for above reason and not once have I been officially or unoffically approached and told. Some of these kids are in the same class.

We had another class who had to isolate and go online, teacher absent but the SNA who works closely with the children was informed that they were not considered a close contact despite sharing a desk most of the day to assist the child in their care.

The very first time this happened a few months ago, I was informed it was because I wore a mask, in other sectors a mask is not considered a reason for not being a close contact. I asked would I be informed in the future and was met with silence. Seem facts have shown since that I havent been.

This does not encourage trust in the system. I recognise cases are officially low in schools but here I am a number of times not included.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Dunno if mentioned by anyone but should LCs be vaccinated round March/April to help them avoid missing crucial exams?

jimmytwotimes 2013

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Dunno if mentioned by anyone but should LCs be vaccinated round March/April to help them avoid missing crucial exams?

If you make exceptions where do you stop? College students, invigilators, JC students, Job interview, civil service exam, driving test, safe pass course, the list could on to such an extent that a large portion of the population could argue a crucial event should put them nearer the top of the queue

Blondini

Norma someone or other (her voice didn't sound familiar) was just on the wireless there.

She says thanks to all school staff, and that she says that schools are 'very safe' places.

Mind now, she wasn't broadcasting from a packed classroom surrounded by a large group of people with no social distancing or adequate ventilation, but hey, it is the thought that counts right ?

Icyseanfitz

Blondini wrote: »

Norma someone or other (her voice didn't sound familiar) was just on the wireless there.

She says thanks to all school staff, and that she says that schools are 'very safe' places.

Mind now, she wasn't broadcasting from a packed classroom surrounded by a large group of people with no social distancing or adequate ventilation, but hey, it is the thought that counts right ?

Her and her department can fcuk off :mad: no regard for the families of students or staff whatsoever

khalessi

Blondini wrote: »

Norma someone or other (her voice didn't sound familiar) was just on the wireless there.

She says thanks to all school staff, and that she says that schools are 'very safe' places.

Mind now, she wasn't broadcasting from a packed classroom surrounded by a large group of people with no social distancing or adequate ventilation, but hey, it is the thought that counts right ?

I hope you genuflected and thanked her for her pearls of wisdom.

Dr. Em

Here are some mass testing results from the UK. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-55340597

The article basically confirms many things people already knew or suspected, e.g.
schools are relatively safe, if you consider that most adults aren't crammed into a classroom with 30 other people 5 days a week (excepting teachers, of course). Also, primary schools (one teacher per class, one classroom) are far safer than secondary schools (students moving from class to class). Unfortunately, all this means is that the infections rates are essentially the same in schools as in the general public and if there are high numbers in the general public, there will be high numbers in the schools. Pretending school outbreaks don't exist certainly isn't going to help anything and it is fuelling the huge frustration you can see on this thread. I think everyone agrees that schools should stay open if they can, but if there is a problem, schools and parents should be notified and there should be closures where needed. The lack of transparency and consistency is baffling.

That's my rant over.

Dub81

Lord Tony and NPHET have suddenly gone very quiet on pubs too I notice seen as it was recently announced that zero cases have come about due to the recent opening of gasto pubs, its also a kick in the teeth for the anti pub brigade who spend so much time saying pubs are dangerous environments,outrageous how traditional pubs are still closed but that's for another thread!!

But schools remain the elephant in the room, obviously you can't blame the kids as they don't know any better when it comes to the virus, but the lack of data surrounding outbreaks in schools, the lack of transparency is absolutely astounding, why is this data being not available to the public, are they afraid to admit they got it wrong.

Sorry seems to be the hardest word for Holohan.

Dub81

Dr. Em wrote: »

Here are some mass testing results from the UK. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-55340597

The article basically confirms many things people already knew or suspected, e.g.
schools are relatively safe, if you consider that most adults aren't crammed into a classroom with 30 other people 5 days a week (excepting teachers, of course). Also, primary schools (one teacher per class, one classroom) are far safer than secondary schools (students moving from class to class). Unfortunately, all this means is that the infections rates are essentially the same in schools as in the general public and if there are high numbers in the general public, there will be high numbers in the schools. Pretending school outbreaks don't exist certainly isn't going to help anything and it is fuelling the huge frustration you can see on this thread. I think everyone agrees that schools should stay open if they can, but if there is a problem, schools and parents should be notified and there should be closures where needed. The lack of transparency and consistency is baffling.

That's my rant over.

I agree schools should indeed stay open but there should be rapid antigen testing done every other day to ensure no one is positive for Covid-19, most kids are asymptomatic anyway, but NPHET won't even acknowledge antigen testing.

Anyway that's my rant over too ðŸ˜

Good afternoon

solerina

Deleted User wrote: »

We know the cases in Claremorris were over the course of 6 weeks and strongly associated with an outbreak in a food processing plant. What do we know about the Kerry outbreak?

First case last Friday which lead to 2 teachers testing positive, all stemmed from there

JimmyVik

I was just talking to my brats teacher today when I collected her.
I used to go to school with her and know her very well.
She told me that in the school they have 8 students out this week alone covid positive.
HSE never even told the school. The principal makes a point to contact all the parents when kids are out.
Thats the only reason they know why they are out.

solerina

solerina wrote: »

First case last Friday which lead to 2 teachers testing positive, all stemmed from there

So a rapidly escalating situation over a few days was treated differently to a slow burner over the course of six weeks?

Blondini

Dr. Em wrote: »

The lack of transparency and consistency is baffling.

It is not baffling when the definitions and criteria are different for schools because it's all about childminding and the economy.

Khalessi had a link to a lovely tweet where the cat was let out of the bag.

wirelessdude01

Informed today of another 3 who won't be in next week so that's now 11 that definitely will not be in Monday or Tuesday.

Inquitus

My kid goes to a Gaelscoil, the eijets submitted the Irish version of the whole classes names to the HSE on Monday, and not their properly registered names causing a complete cluster**** and meaning the HSE couldn't arrange tests as obviously the names provided didn't tally with those stored in the HSE, PRSI etc. databases. This means tests have all been delayed to the point where the kids Christmas's are likely to be massively impacted. I mean have some cop on FFS!

SusanC10

Can anyone explain why the School in Mayo which had 16 Cases (I think) out of 125 Students was ordered to stay open but the School in Kerry has 17 Cases out of 380 something is closed ?

What am I failing to understand ?

downthemiddle

SusanC10 wrote: »

What am I failing to understand ?

The machinations of the DES!!!

JimmyVik

Id love to see the results of an antibody test done in the entire population of just one large school.

Mrsmum

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Informed today of another 3 who won't be in next week so that's now 11 that definitely will not be in Monday or Tuesday.

Some weeks back, I thought it made sound sense to close the schools early. It was really only one day and you would have gained four. Some people pointed out other considerations and I can see that side of things also. So now I think it's all good anyway. Those who feel the need to keep their children off will do so. Those who need them at school will send them in. Classes ,as per this example above, will be alot smaller so best result gained for everyone. Staff have to work but thems the breaks of having a job. My other half is working all that week including Christmas day. Things you have to accept.

frank8211

SusanC10 wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the School in Mayo which had 16 Cases (I think) out of 125 Students was ordered to stay open but the School in Kerry has 17 Cases out of 380 something is closed ?

What am I failing to understand ?

The suggestion about claremorris was that the source of the problem was some factory in the town and it spread through the school after that, so school was subsidiary of that. That way the whole problem gets called a workplace cluster. It might have been that there was nothing similar in killorglin, so they are forced to admit its all to do with the school . The policy is to find something other than the school to identify. You willl see the same camouflage racket happen soon with a wexford cluster in the making

JP Liz V1

A primary school in Kerry is to close immediately after 17 Covid cases were detected. The outbreak in Scoil Mhuire in Killorglin is one of the largest detected in the school system to date. The HSE says the school has adhered to Covid protocols.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Id love to see the results of an antibody test done in the entire population of just one large school.

Given studies have shown kids catch the virus and are symptomatic (with milder symptoms) at the same rate as adults, I would hazard a guess it would be very close to the rate in the community that the school is based in.