Schools closed until February? (part 3)

the kelt

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its become very clear that the pubs or cafes were never to blame, we could get tiny numbers with the schools closed, even with everything else shut still mad numbers, the kids are still piling on top of each other and spreading it everywhere.

At this point its clear hospitality is paying for the sins of the schools

Well we all know what’s coming next don’t we?

Hospitality will close and cases will go down, this will of course coincide with the schools being closed for 2 weeks but there will be no reference to this at all, no mention, it will be the narrative only of hospitality closing and cases go down.

And the simpletons will swallow and regurgitate it ad naseum on here.

lawrencesummers

the kelt wrote: »

Well we all know what’s coming next don’t we?

Hospitality will close and cases will go down, this will of course coincide with the schools being closed for 2 weeks but there will be no reference to this at all, no mention, it will be the narrative only of hospitality closing and cases go down.

And the simpletons will swallow and regurgitate it ad naseum on here.

The thing with that is that cases need to go down and schools are more important to have open than Gastropubs.

Thats me

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Possibly but we dont know, its clear schools open mean higher cases, we dont know if non food pubs would cause more cases, we havent tried,

We don't know, this is why i tend to insert 'possibly' last time in any phrase on this subject: too many people taking it as a kind of known fact while we simply have no evidence to check is it true or not.


From the common sense any public would add to infection rates. Not excluding schools. But even comparing to the shops, i'd guess schools are less evil because staff in the schools seem smarter and better educated than general public in the shops, so they are more capable to maintain sanitary even having no resources to do it properly.


My point was and still is - schools should be closed on L5.

If i'd speak on shops, i'd say these should be closed even on L3 - for over 7 months of lockdown every shop was able to organise some form of contactless services - delivery or click and collect services. But most of them didn't. Just because they were not forced by government.

Eric Cartman

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The thing with that is that cases need to go down and schools are more important to have open than Gastropubs.

Cases do need to go down but its become abundantly clear that while schools are open that doesnt happen , but clearer that the pubs being open has little impact on cases being higher. We cant live in this fantasy world where we keep opening and closing the pubs like its turning on and off a light to just achieve miniscule results of lower case numbers

Thats me

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Cases do need to go down but its become abundantly clear that while schools are open that doesnt happen , but clearer that the pubs being open has little impact on cases being higher.

I thought you were joking but now i'm doubt...

Blondini

Thats me wrote: »

My point was and still is - schools should be closed on L5.

Anyone with any tiny ounce of cop-on knows that schools are a major factor.

On the other hand, the economy cannot afford to have schools closed.
It's a big problem. There were options that could have been considered but they weren't.

This forum is not representative of real life. Nobody I know in real life will try to argue that schools are not a problem. It's just an absurd hard-core minority here.

Eric Cartman

Thats me wrote: »

I thought you were joking but now i'm doubt...

Im not advocating for closing the schools and opening the pubs, I think both should be open but we definitely need to do something else to cut the case numbers, ‘close da pubs’ clearly isnt good ebough and its a lazy answer

Thats me

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not advocating for closing the schools and opening the pubs, I think both should be open but we definitely need to do something else to cut the case numbers, ‘close da pubs’ clearly isnt good ebough and its a lazy answer

But schools obviously not a major factor in latest growth on cases. Schools were still open all this time. What changed - travel relaxed (i do not believe it had impact), gatherings relaxed (nobody seem was restricting anyway), only thanks we can say to opening of non-essential business and pre-Christmas madness causing dense crowding. Closing schools on L3- would not make any difference on this background.

ginoginelli

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not advocating for closing the schools and opening the pubs, I think both should be open but we definitely need to do something else to cut the case numbers, ‘close da pubs’ clearly isnt good ebough and its a lazy answer

Indorr hospitality is extremely risky and is almost impossible to make safe. This was clear months ago if you follow the science. Anybody that argues differently at this stage has ulterior motives or are just plain dumb.

Schools are not safe either but are necessary to keep the economy going.

lawrencesummers

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Cases do need to go down but its become abundantly clear that while schools are open that doesnt happen , but clearer that the pubs being open has little impact on cases being higher. We cant live in this fantasy world where we keep opening and closing the pubs like uits turning on and off a light to just achieve miniscule results of lower case numbers

That’s exactly what the plan is.

Open up hospitality when numbers nationally allow, and close them when they don’t allowing schools to remain open throughout.

Numbers will never get to double digits with schools open and 100-400 appears to be the acceptable level of infection that the decision makers will allow before looking at tightening up.

MerlinSouthDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not advocating for closing the schools and opening the pubs, I think both should be open but we definitely need to do something else to cut the case numbers, ‘close da pubs’ clearly isnt good ebough and its a lazy answer

Closing the pubs massively reduced case numbers.

joe40

Thats me wrote: »

This is a madness. Politicians are making decisions basing on "balance of interests". But pandemic is definitely not the case for political compromises. It is like a cancer - you cannot half-threat it to make patient more happy and save some finances from treatment. The "balance of interests" works against any interests. Semi-lockdowns like recent L5 just extending struggle of all businesses and everybody in the country.

It has to be about "balancing interests" society still has to function. By that mean, education, health care, and other vital services. Obviously we can do without hospitality for a while but economic well being is also important.
There is a direct correlation between poor health outcomes and poverty. Covid-19 is seriously infectious illness no doubt about that but it is not the only illness out there.

khalessi

joe40 wrote: »

It has to be about "balancing interests" society still has to function. By that mean, education, health care, and other vital services. Obviously we can do without hospitality for a while but economic well being is also important.
There is a direct correlation between poor health outcomes and poverty. Covid-19 is seriously infectious illness no doubt about that but it is not the only illness out there.

Yes but the balanced approach has to be honest, transparet, and have consistency

wirelessdude01

In relation to education, the issue most of us have is with the utter lack of transparency and consistency.

We are treated like plebs.

joe40

khalessi wrote: »

Yes but the balanced approach has to be honest, transparet, and have consistency

Yeah, absolutely. This is a novel situation for everyone so mistakes will happen.

The exam boards in the north have just announced a significant cut ( up to 60%) of the content that will be required for GCSE and A level exams. They might be pre-empting school closures in the next while.

It is a very fluid situation.

hesaidshesaid

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In relation to education, the issue most of us have is with the utter lack of transparency and consistency.

We are treated like plebs.

And proof of this, (among so many other examples) is that schools went back at the end of August and it was instantly clear to teachers that siblings of close contacts should obviously be tested/restrict movements. Whatever semblance of social distancing exists in schools, it's more than what's possible in family homes.

Meanwhile, nobody in Public Health or the DES was interested in the opinions of those at the coalface until the media finally started highlighting school outbreaks and end-of-their-tether principals started going public. It took PH until Dec 18th to figure out something literally any member of school staff, or even any school-going child, could have told them in August.

solerina

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The thing with that is that cases need to go down and schools are more important to have open than Gastropubs.

Tell that to all those who are about to have to close again and possibly face the real prospect of goi g out of business permanently !! Businesses are being screwed over to keep schools open !!

Thats me

solerina wrote: »

Tell that to all those who are about to have to close again and possibly face the real prospect of going out of business permanently !!

Who cares??? If businesses cannot adapt to new reality it is better to let them go out of business permanently rather than let them to make harm to the public health.

lawrencesummers

solerina wrote: »

Tell that to all those who are about to have to close again and possibly face the real prospect of goi g out of business permanently !! Businesses are being screwed over to keep schools open !!

Yep I agree as well.
Education is more important than money.

wirelessdude01

How long before this new strain thats rampant in parts of the UK is detected here?

I've read that its up to 70% more transmissable than the existing strains.

combat14

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How long before this new strain thats rampant in parts of the UK is detected here?

I've read that its up to 70% more transmissable than the existing strains.

if this new strain gets over here we will have to close everything they seemed to be extremely concerned in the UK

lawrencesummers

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How long before this new strain thats rampant in parts of the UK is detected here?

I've read that its up to 70% more transmissable than the existing strains.

Before it gets here or before it’s detected?

Because there could be a significant difference between the two.

Thats me

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How long before this new strain thats rampant in parts of the UK is detected here?

I've read that its up to 70% more transmissable than the existing strains.

Seeing how fast numbers have jumped it is probably already here... But there still a chance it is less dangerous than original stain. Typically most lethal stains of infection does not survive long because they are simply killing their carriers.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Was a link to remote learning doc posted on here?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/schools-receive-guidance-for-emergency-remote-teaching-1.4440993

is_that_so

Thats me wrote: »

Who cares??? If businesses cannot adapt to new reality it is better to let them go out of business permanently rather than let them to make harm to the public health.

You can't adapt to a reality where you cannot effectively plan and where your livelihood is constantly dictated by restrictive public health measures. Some sectors have been very badly hit here and not because they are bad businesses.

average_runner

Thats me wrote: »

Who cares??? If businesses cannot adapt to new reality it is better to let them go out of business permanently rather than let them to make harm to the public health.

That's is unfair. I think businesses are adapting. But the question that remains open, what causes the numbers to go up when we left level 5 and went to level 3? People were still meant to restrict their social contacts.

For the answer is the people , we went to level 3 and started messing again. So we are causing the business's to go bust

wirelessdude01

See the Dutch have pulled all UK flights.

Also they've traced their first case study of the UK variant back to early December. Have also said that it is harder to detect.

the kelt

Chloe Round Whisk wrote: »

Someone I know just received a letter for their child being a close contact. It says that new regulations mean household members of the close contact must also now restrict movements until the close contact receives a negative test result. Interesting. Employer is disputing it as HSE website not updated, but letter states new regulations only came in on the 18th.

It is unfu€&ingbelievable that this is only changed since the 18th of December!

Thats me

is_that_so wrote: »

You can't adapt to a reality where you cannot effectively plan and where your livelihood is constantly dictated by restrictive public health measures. Some sectors have been very badly hit here and not because they are bad businesses.

It is difficult to plan when conditions are constantly changing, i agree. And variable part is "restrictive public health measures". Virus appeared and not gone - this is constant factor; but businesses cannot be sure what restrictive measures will be offered by Government tomorrow which is variable and unpredictable even from common sense (for example schools not closed on L5 - who could expect). Instead of paying compensations to prolong agony of "badly hit" business and struggling their employees it would be better to offer single-time payment to business to help them changing profile and courses for employees to help them change to the new professions.

average_runner wrote: »

That's is unfair. I think businesses are adapting.

They do not. I never heard about any hotel, pub or restaurant which would modify to provide contact-less service and implement strong sanitizing measures to protect customers from contamination through the food, for example. Shops can only cry that they aren't allowed to sell non-essentials, but no one of them have implemented click and collect services and/or delivery. Tesco had it before, they seem extended their delivery, but other shops like Dunnes still trying to offer non-viable options, if ever tried - most of them never ever even to try to sell online. Man-served petrol station didn't change - you cannot pay your order at pump, you need to go inside enclosed space filled with potential spreaders to pay your petrol - this is why i buying petrol in the automatic stations only and, if i happen to buy other fuels, like coal - i do call some private businessman who is taking orders over Interned and bringing order to my door with no need for me to contact him. But even this businessman didn't adopt to new reality - he was operating this way before pandemic. Et cetera. Business do not invest into their own stability, their choice to have damage and to create damage to others.

average_runner wrote: »

But the question that remains open, what causes the numbers to go up when we left level 5 and went to level 3? People were still meant to restrict their social contacts.

For the answer is the people , we went to level 3 and started messing again. So we are causing the business's to go bust

Some people only. Everybody who i know preparing to their Christmas with natives and maintaining minimised contacts to do not occasionally pass Covid to elderly ones, including online ordering of everything. That minority (i hope) of people, who are creating mess and filling pubs/restaurants now are just not smart enough as well as these who are dense crowding on streets with no masks. Closing businesses where these people sharing their viruses is the only measure to stop them from doing this.

average_runner

Thats me wrote: »

It is difficult to plan when conditions are constantly changing, i agree. And variable part is "restrictive public health measures". Virus appeared and not gone - this is constant factor; but businesses cannot be sure what restrictive measures will be offered by Government tomorrow which is variable and unpredictable even from common sense (for example schools not closed on L5 - who could expect). Instead of paying compensations to prolong agony of "badly hit" business and struggling their employees it would be better to offer single-time payment to business to help them changing profile and courses for employees to help them change to the new professions.




They do not. I never heard about any hotel, pub or restaurant which would modify to provide contact-less service and implement strong sanitizing measures to protect customers from contamination through the food, for example. Shops can only cry that they aren't allowed to sell non-essentials, but no one of them have implemented click and collect services and/or delivery. Tesco had it before, they seem extended their delivery, but other shops like Dunnes still trying to offer non-viable options, if ever tried - most of them never ever even to try to sell online. Man-served petrol station didn't change - you cannot pay your order at pump, you need to go inside enclosed space filled with potential spreaders to pay your petrol - this is why i buying petrol in the automatic stations only and, if i happen to buy other fuels, like coal - i do call some private businessman who is taking orders over Interned and bringing order to my door with no need for me to contact him. But even this businessman didn't adopt to new reality - he was operating this way before pandemic. Et cetera. Business do not invest into their own stability, their choice to have damage and to create damage to others.



Some people only. Everybody who i know preparing to their Christmas with natives and maintaining minimised contacts to do not occasionally pass Covid to elderly ones, including online ordering of everything. That minority (i hope) of people, who are creating mess and filling pubs/restaurants now are just not smart enough as well as these who are dense crowding on streets with no masks. Closing businesses where these people sharing their viruses is the only measure to stop them from doing this.

Minority is causing a massive mess. Look at Wexford, alot more testing positive because of the funeral.

Was in a hotel in the summer, masks when u go to reception, clean hands before food. Limited pool.access. All tables 2 meters a part and cleaner not allowed into rooms during visits