Schools closed until February? (part 3)

wirelessdude01

political analyst wrote: »

And what happens for those who don't have sufficient broadband (or no broadband at all) at home?

Thought just came back to me. I'd a kd who came in one day, zero online work submitted. When asked why they said they had no Internet in the house. Straight away another kid hand up and said they the child is lying as they were gaming against them last night. Where there is a will there is a way.

the kelt

political analyst wrote: »

Is this obsession with keeping schools open during the second and third waves of the pandemic a particularly Irish thing?

Particularly an Irish political thing, Micheal wants another “I was first to bring in the smoking ban don’t ye know” moment.

“Through it all I kept the schools open don’t ye know” yes but as a result even in lockdown we could never get cases down below 250 a day and the trace and isolate system in schools was a complete farce Micheal, “yep I kept the schools open, promised that and done it, go me”

JimmyVik

political analyst wrote: »

And what happens for those who don't have sufficient broadband (or no broadband at all) at home?

If they had put a plan in place they could have had schools open just enough for these people. And for the children of healthcare workers etc.


But no plan, when schools do have to close its going to be carnage ... again.

blanch152

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Personally can see all primary and the exam classes remaining in school while the others go remote. All teaching to happen in the classroom. Also can see a mask recommendation imcoming for 4th, 5th and 6th class.

One of the lessons learned from the first lockdown was the failure to reach disadvantaged students through remote delivery. Whether this was hardware issues, broadband or just retaining interest and motivation, it means that closing schools again is to be avoided as much as possible to protect the more vulnerable in our society.

If we are ever to move to remote delivery again, it will involve substantially increased demands on teachers because of this failure during the first lockdown.

frank8211

frank8211 wrote: »

What happens when they want shopping, netflix , video calls with friends, tinder etc

Because education is the same as Tinder

khalessi

JimmyVik wrote: »

If they had put a plan in place they could have had schools open just enough for these people. And for the children of healthcare workers etc.


But no plan, when schools do have to close its going to be carnage ... again.

But then they can blame the teachers and say they issued a circular.

wirelessdude01

blanch152 wrote: »

One of the lessons learned from the first lockdown was the failure to reach disadvantaged students through remote delivery. Whether this was hardware issues, broadband or just retaining interest and motivation, it means that closing schools again is to be avoided as much as possible to protect the more vulnerable in our society.

If we are ever to move to remote delivery again, it will involve substantially increased demands on teachers because of this failure during the first lockdown.

I would also only be for some years, maybe regionalised, also only for a short and determined timeframe. Last time was rubbish with regards to the govt but then again they haven't improved much.

ZERO thought given to a centralised system which would have ensured a common approach. Instead every school, indeed every teacher has their own take on what is required in the case that a pod, a class, a year group or a full school if forced to close. Pathetic really.

Tpcl20

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Personally can see all primary and the exam classes remaining in school while the others go remote. All teaching to happen in the classroom. Also can see a mask recommendation imcoming for 4th, 5th and 6th class.

Many pupils in these classes are choosing to wear them anyway, either of their own volition or being advised by their parents to do it. Dead right.

km79

Well done guys and gals
We made it
Time to switch off and recharge now
I honestly hope we are just back in January and there is no announcement again during our holidays

lulublue22

km79 wrote: »

Well done guys and gals
We made it
Time to switch off and recharge now
I honestly hope we are just back in January and there is no announcement again during our holidays

Won’t be paying a blind bit of notice to news / sm till the 5th of Jan. It’s been a very long haul since Sep and I’m taking this annual leave to switch off and relax. Merry Christmas everyone x

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

Well done guys and gals
We made it
Time to switch off and recharge now
I honestly hope we are just back in January and there is no announcement again during our holidays

I refused to sent books home today. No point anyway as I'd just over 28% attendance. 99% sure we'll be open.

Thats me

Tpcl20 wrote: »

Many pupils in these classes are choosing to wear them anyway, either of their own volition or being advised by their parents to do it. Dead right.

This is not right. Looks like there was a reason why they are allowed to do not wear masks.

political analyst

Closing the schools for a fortnight after the Christmas break would, alongside the restrictions taking effect on Christmas Eve, eliminate community transmission, wouldn't it? It's a small fraction of the amount of education missed because of the first lockdown.

LC students must realise that not getting their preferred college place straight away won't cause the proverbial sky to fall. It won't kill them to take 2 or 3 years to get places on the courses they'd like to attend - they've several decades to go in their lives.

wirelessdude01

Thats me wrote: »

This is not right. Looks like there was a reason why they are allowed to do not wear masks.

And what is it?

wirelessdude01

https://teachingplans.ie/my-experience-of-a-covid-19-school-outbreak/

Very interesting read from someone who was/is stuck in the middle of an outbreak.

Blondini

Who knows what will happen in January.

One thing we all have in common on this great thread, is experiencing the upheaval that this whole Covid problem has brought into our lives.

So I wish one and all who frequent this thread, friend and foe , the very best of wishes for Christmas and the New Year. Have a good one!

Blondini

Blondini wrote: »

Who knows what will happen in January.

One thing we all have in common on this great thread, is experiencing the upheaval that this whole Covid problem has brought into our lives.

So I wish one and all who frequent this thread, friend and foe , the very best of wishes for Christmas and the New Year. Have a good one!

Me and you have had an odd disagreement here blondini, and my view that making it to the Christmas with the country in relatively ok shape with the schools open all the way as being a success is not a popular one in this thread. But what I view as a success is in no small part down to those of you working in the schools everyday. I understand it’s been stressful and uncertain environment to work in. Merry Christmas to all. See you on the 6th of January, hopefully with more vaccine announcements on the horizon

KerryConnor

From what I see, the majority of teachers don't want schools closed, but they do want them managed better. For example they want them closed quickly during outbreaks and they want random mass testing (there is currently no mass testing in schools - unlike in meat factories and hospitals where serial testing takes place).
The danger of schools being fully operational isn't specifically that teachers are dying. It is that keeping schools open when local incident rates go over a certain level fuels local transmission and leads to staff and students infecting their families. This in turn endangers the whole community.
I'd be happy if schools were generally kept open but closed when community transmission went above a certain level. Also random mass testing of schools needs to happen as we currently have no idea of actual levels of infection in schools.

blanch152 wrote: »

I really don't understand the hyperbole.

Teachers are not dying from the coronavirus, but health care workers and meat factory workers are, yet we don't have hundreds of posts wanting hospitals and meat factories closed.

Thats me

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And what is it?

In the mask thread we have very roughly calculated impact from masks. On adult person having 0.5 litesr tidal volume. Smaller pupil having much lesser volumes (somewhat 250ml for youngest of them), therefore they should have overdose of CO2. I think this is a reason why masks are not recommended to them.

KerryConnor

It really seems to depend hugely on the local area you live in . From this thread below on peoples experiences in london currently, you can see that the borough you live in makes a huge difference to what's going on around you. I think it shows you that schools need to be managed locally... Fine having schools open nationally but seems only common sense that they close quickly for a period of time if there's a problem in the local area...

Edit - https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4113240-What-is-the-situation-in-London

JimmyVik

KerryConnor wrote: »

From what I see, the majority of teachers don't want schools closed, but they do want them managed better. For example they want them closed quickly during outbreaks and they want random mass testing (there is currently no mass testing in schools - unlike in meat factories and hospitals where serial testing takes place).
The danger of schools being fully operational isn't specifically that teachers are dying. It is that keeping schools open when local incident rates go over a certain level fuels local transmission and leads to staff and students infecting their families. This in turn endangers the whole community.
I'd be happy if schools were generally kept open but closed when community transmission went above a certain level. Also random mass testing of schools needs to happen as we currently have no idea of actual levels of infection in schools.

Thats my sense from teachers too.
Id like to see mass antibody testing done in schools so it can be put beside the actual positive cases detected.

blanch152

KerryConnor wrote: »

From what I see, the majority of teachers don't want schools closed, but they do want them managed better. For example they want them closed quickly during outbreaks and they want random mass testing (there is currently no mass testing in schools - unlike in meat factories and hospitals where serial testing takes place).
The danger of schools being fully operational isn't specifically that teachers are dying. It is that keeping schools open when local incident rates go over a certain level fuels local transmission and leads to staff and students infecting their families. This in turn endangers the whole community.
I'd be happy if schools were generally kept open but closed when community transmission went above a certain level. Also random mass testing of schools needs to happen as we currently have no idea of actual levels of infection in schools.

The public health advice is that that isn’t happening.

Schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully.

Staff and students may well be infecting their families but they are not picking the virus up at school.

lulublue22

blanch152 wrote: »

Schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully.





Can you link a source to the above please- or is that your opinion dressed up as fact. It certainly wasn’t the case in the school in Cork.

wirelessdude01

blanch152 wrote: »

The public health advice is that that isn’t happening.

Schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully.

Staff and students may well be infecting their families but they are not picking the virus up at school.

Where is the data or link to back up what is only your opinion which you are trying to dress up as fact?

Blondini

blanch152 wrote: »

Staff and students may well be infecting their families but they are not picking the virus up at school.

Now I definitely know that this a windup because nobody could possibly, by any immense stretch of the most vivid imagination, make such a ludicrous and sweeping statement.

TheValeyard

blanch152 wrote: »

The public health advice is that that isn’t happening.

Schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully.

Staff and students may well be infecting their families but they are not picking the virus up at school.

Of all the silly posts I have seen on boards lately, this has to be number one.

hesaidshesaid

blanch152 wrote: »

The public health advice is that that isn’t happening.

Schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully.

Staff and students may well be infecting their families but they are not picking the virus up at school.

Have you been working in any school since September? If not, you are not in a position to make this claim.

If limited data is gathered and presented, then only a limited picture emerges. School data is limited.

If you choose to ignore all the teachers on here, who have real life experience of this, so be it.

Tpcl20

Departmental guidelines being ignored and not implemented fully would be the nail in the coffin if it were happening. Unfortunately it's often following the guidelines that leads to schools being unsafe places, such as principals and boards deciding to close because of high levels of transmission in the school, not just in the community but in the actual building, and being told to open again as some statement of dominance by the DoE.

I can't understand why there seems to be an actual campaign by Norma Foley to make people engage in dangerous activities. Parents then have to source alternative childcare arrangements when they are avoiding the school with high levels of infection and employers will be less sympathetic.

It's less a government body and more a caricature of evil organisation from a movie or dystopian literature, fronted by a malevolent ruling robot whose plastic smile turns their naughty subjects to stone.

blanch152

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Have you been working in any school since September? If not, you are not in a position to make this claim.

If limited data is gathered and presented, then only a limited picture emerges. School data is limited.

If you choose to ignore all the teachers on here, who have real life experience of this, so be it.

TheValeyard wrote: »

Of all the silly posts I have seen on boards lately, this has to be number one.

Blondini wrote: »

Now I definitely know that this a windup because nobody could possibly, by any immense stretch of the most vivid imagination, make such a ludicrous and sweeping statement.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Where is the data or link to back up what is only your opinion which you are trying to dress up as fact?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/staff-rooms-a-key-risk-for-spread-of-covid-19-in-schools-health-officials-warn-1.4414623

"Overall, the review found schools remain safe with very limited evidence of transmission of the virus.

The report found the proportion of close contacts of pupils or staff who tested positive remained low, despite high levels of community transmission across Ireland, particularly in Dublin, during October."

"In addition, it says staff rooms have “not infrequently” been highlighted as an area of concern for potential for infection transmission, resulting in a significant number of staff members being identified as close contacts."

As I said, schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully. Staff rooms are a clear example of this.

Now, I don't need teachers to tell me anything, the public health officials are the experts.

As I said in an earlier post, the impact of a more transmissible mutation may change things, but schools remain the safest place for everyone so long as the rules are followed.

lulublue22

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/staff-rooms-a-key-risk-for-spread-of-covid-19-in-schools-health-officials-warn-1.4414623

"Overall, the review found schools remain safe with very limited evidence of transmission of the virus.

The report found the proportion of close contacts of pupils or staff who tested positive remained low, despite high levels of community transmission across Ireland, particularly in Dublin, during October."

"In addition, it says staff rooms have “not infrequently” been highlighted as an area of concern for potential for infection transmission, resulting in a significant number of staff members being identified as close contacts."

As I said, schools are not fuelling local transmission except where the Departmental guideline are ignored and/or not implemented fully. Staff rooms are a clear example of this.

Now, I don't need teachers to tell me anything, the public health officials are the experts.

As I said in an earlier post, the impact of a more transmissible mutation may change things, but schools remain the safest place for everyone so long as the rules are followed.

So you are basing your assumption that dep guidelines are not being followed on the above statement that staff rooms are a potential area of concern - have you even read the guidelines ??????? ????????

Again can you link to a source which states that transmission in schools is due to dep guidelines not being followed. Not a half arsed - “not infrequently” “ Potential” for spread but actual source for your opinion which you like to peddle as fact ? I would hazard that you can’t as the experts aka public health have said no such thing.