Schools closed until February? (part 3)

kippy

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So what were schools told?

Sorry, I don't know what Schools were told. I misworded that. What we, as parents, were told by our kids school, would indicate that, that particular school was expecting to be closed or at least to be prepared for it in January.
But again, any individual with a bit of cop on, can see that that is the only logical outcome given the numbers alone.

wirelessdude01

kippy wrote: »

Sorry, I don't know what Schools were told. I misworded that. What we, as parents, were told by our kids school, would indicate that, that particular school was expecting to be closed or at least to be prepared for it in January.
But again, any individual with a bit of cop on, can see that that is the only logical outcome given the numbers alone.

Really think most teachers will be amazed if we are closed by order of the government. Total back down if it does happen.

Every school at this stage is prepared for online/remote madness.

kippy

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Really think most teachers will be amazed if we are closed by order of the government. Total back down if it does happen.

Every school at this stage is prepared for online/remote madness.

Look, some of the crap coming from the education minister is worrying. And some of the language around this is also worrying. Stuff like 'back down' etc....or changing stance or climbdown or 'staked their reputation on keeping schools open' or indeed the general 'taking side s' for the sake of it.
Ultimately the decisions around this type of thing should be based on raw data and risk analysis, and of viewpoints have to change based on this then so be it.
I do think the figures will be so overwhelming by the weekend that there will be no logical option BUT to close the schools for a couple of weeks more by governmental order.....
So that's my thinking.
And if that doesn't happen, there's no way that the teaching unions will let the schools open so either way, schools won't be open till third of fourth week in Jab and it would be silly of people to be taken by surprise if this is the case.

wirelessdude01

No idea where people get this idea that teaching unions are this all powerful thing, they aren't. If they were then I wouldn't have been an LPT for the past whatever numbers of years. Education would be properly resourced.

As an aside to other arms of the NPC have been utterly silent.

khalessi

kippy wrote: »

And if that doesn't happen, there's no way that the teaching unions will let the schools open so either way, schools won't be open till third of fourth week in Jab and it would be silly of people to be taken by surprise if this is the case.

The unions have sayed far away from this so far and I fear will continue to do so.

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

The unions have sayed far away from this so far and I fear will continue to do so.

I've seen JB being tagged in a fair few tweets today. Wonder will he start blocking people again for daring to voice what this think or him, of the union and of their utter silence on thi gs that impact on the members.

Sammy2012

Schools could easily stay closed for the 3 days next week. Just open them for the first 3 days of Easter and you have the days made up. Those days are there for exceptional closure anyway so they could be made up then. That would bring us up the 11th of Jan without impacting the school year at all.

However I think a return to online learning is not ideal. I worked hard over the closure and my kids didn't retain much of the new topics we covered during that time especially in Maths. So maybe they could issue some sort of directive saying revision only for a 2 week period. And then hopefully with the lockdown things will have calmed down and schools could reopen around the 25th of Jan.

downthemiddle

To all schools
Notice regarding Covid-19 capitation funding supports
Following publication of the roadmap for the full return to school in July, additional Covid-
19 related funding was made available to recognised schools in the free education scheme to
support them in fully and safely reopening in a sustainable way, while minimising risk
associated with Covid-19. Each school has a Covid-19 response plan which provides clear
and practical guidance on the measures schools need to take to operate safely and minimise
the risk of the introduction, or spread, of infection in schools.
The information available to the Department to date indicates that schools are operating
safely, students have adjusted to the new routines in school and teachers have successfully
adapted their teaching approaches in the current context.
In order to support schools in continuing to operate safely and to minimise the risk of the
spread of Covid-19 during Term 2 a further round of capitation funding will be provided in
early January. Schools are advised to refer to circular 0045/2020 published on the
Department’s website in July 2020 at https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-
Forms/Active-Circulars/ for further information in relation to these grants.
Details of this capitation funding together with the per capita rates are outlined in the table
below.
 The rates quoted for Enhanced Cleaning are in line with the rates issued for Term 1.
 The first instalment of the PPE grant reflected the fact that there were a number of
once off type costs which schools faced at that time and therefore the rate for Term 2
has been revised accordingly.
COVID-19 Capitation Grants  Term 2 - Rates per pupil
Primary Schools Mainstream Special Classes/Special School
Enhanced Cleaning €21.00 €25.67
PPE €15.00 €60.00
Note: Grants paid to schools with an enrolment of equal to or less than 60
pupils are based on a minimum enrolment of 60 pupils.

The Department will be reviewing the funding provided and following this review details of
the third and final instalment of these grants for the 2020/2021 school year will be made
available in due course.
For further queries please contact the Department by email at
covid19_alert@education.gov.ie or by phone at 057 9324461.

wirelessdude01

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Schools could easily stay closed for the 3 days next week. Just open them for the first 3 days of Easter and you have the days made up. Those days are there for exceptional closure anyway so they could be made up then. That would bring us up the 11th of Jan without impacting the school year at all.

However I think a return to online learning is not ideal. I worked hard over the closure and my kids didn't retain much of the new topics we covered during that time especially in Maths. So maybe they could issue some sort of directive saying revision only for a 2 week period. And then hopefully with the lockdown things will have calmed down and schools could reopen around the 25th of Jan.

Honestly don't see any of the above happening as it's stinks of common sense. That isn't allowed when it comes to education.

Sammy2012

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Honestly don't see any of the above happening as it's stinks of common sense. That isn't allowed when it comes to education.

I fully agree. There is no joined up thinking with the department at all. To be honest I'm amazed that the education system in Ireland functions so well in spite of the incompetence on display there.

Piehead

Any news on schools remaining closed til after Easter? We need to get control of the virus or we’ll regret if all. Also teachers and other staff need a break from the stress

deiseindublin

Stateofyou wrote: »

Would the principal be willing to forward that do you think? I'm the pa chair if that makes any difference...

It's on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/GininaTeacup1/status/1343241225755885569/photo/1

Stateofyou

downthemiddle wrote: »

To all schools
Notice regarding Covid-19 capitation funding supports
Following publication of the roadmap for the full return to school in July, additional Covid-
19 related funding was made available to recognised schools in the free education scheme to
support them in fully and safely reopening in a sustainable way, while minimising risk
associated with Covid-19. Each school has a Covid-19 response plan which provides clear
and practical guidance on the measures schools need to take to operate safely and minimise
the risk of the introduction, or spread, of infection in schools.
The information available to the Department to date indicates that schools are operating
safely, students have adjusted to the new routines in school and teachers have successfully
adapted their teaching approaches in the current context.
In order to support schools in continuing to operate safely and to minimise the risk of the
spread of Covid-19 during Term 2 a further round of capitation funding will be provided in
early January. Schools are advised to refer to circular 0045/2020 published on the
Department’s website in July 2020 at https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-
Forms/Active-Circulars/ for further information in relation to these grants.
Details of this capitation funding together with the per capita rates are outlined in the table
below.
 The rates quoted for Enhanced Cleaning are in line with the rates issued for Term 1.
 The first instalment of the PPE grant reflected the fact that there were a number of
once off type costs which schools faced at that time and therefore the rate for Term 2
has been revised accordingly.
COVID-19 Capitation Grants  Term 2 - Rates per pupil
Primary Schools Mainstream Special Classes/Special School
Enhanced Cleaning €21.00 €25.67
PPE €15.00 €60.00
Note: Grants paid to schools with an enrolment of equal to or less than 60
pupils are based on a minimum enrolment of 60 pupils.

The Department will be reviewing the funding provided and following this review details of
the third and final instalment of these grants for the 2020/2021 school year will be made
available in due course.
For further queries please contact the Department by email at
covid19_alert@education.gov.ie or by phone at 057 9324461.

This is great. If anyone has the funding information that outlines the funding prior to January so that I can show the 40% decrease to the TD that would be appreciated. I'll take this as far as I can.

wirelessdude01

Piehead wrote: »

Any news on schools remaining closed til after Easter? We need to get control of the virus or we’ll regret if all. Also teachers and other staff need a break from the stress

Got a good laugh. Thanks.

mirrorwall14

downthemiddle wrote: »

Details of this capitation funding together with the per capita rates are outlined in the table
below.
 The rates quoted for Enhanced Cleaning are in line with the rates issued for Term 1.
 The first instalment of the PPE grant reflected the fact that there were a number of
once off type costs which schools faced at that time and therefore the rate for Term 2
has been revised accordingly.
COVID-19 Capitation Grants  Term 2 - Rates per pupil
Primary Schools Mainstream Special Classes/Special School
Enhanced Cleaning €21.00 €25.67
PPE €15.00 €60.00
Note: Grants paid to schools with an enrolment of equal to or less than 60
pupils are based on a minimum enrolment of 60 pupils.

Can anyone clarify this, is this a cut from €25.67 to €21 and from €60 to €15?

Why is this not headline news? As a parent WTAF?!

And since when is PPE a one off cost?

wirelessdude01

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Can anyone clarify this, is this a cut from €25.67 to €21 and from €60 to €15?

Why is this not headline news? As a parent WTAF?!

And since when is PPE a one off cost?

Formatting of the letter gets lost when it is copied and pasted.

First amount is for normal school schools second is for special schools.

khalessi

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Can anyone clarify this, is this a cut from €25.67 to €21 and from €60 to €15?

Why is this not headline news? As a parent WTAF?!

And since when is PPE a one off cost?

Since kids can't vote and schools are safe, so why spend the money

Stateofyou

deiseindublin wrote: »

It's on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/GininaTeacup1/status/1343241225755885569/photo/1

That's great, thanks for that. Now I just need a document from 2020 to show the reduction in funding of 40%. Anyone have a link to that to show the difference?

Icyseanfitz

Schools will be 100% open come 6th of January, no doubt about it from anyone that works in a school id say, the fact that they kept schools open previously at 1300 cases a day, and throughout level 5 as well as the Monday and Tuesday before Christmas holidays should be evidence enough.

kippy

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Schools will be 100% open come 6th of January, no doubt about it from anyone that works in a school id say, the fact that they kept schools open previously at 1300 cases a day, and throughout level 5 as well as the Monday and Tuesday before Christmas holidays should be evidence enough.

We are heading for 2k cases a day by this time next week. Contact tracing will be overrun and we will be testing 120k people per seven day rolling average..... Cases will be everywhere. Letting kids back into school at that point will be an incredibly risky behaviour that will only add to the numbers, not dampen them. That's not the same as any time before.
Will see, but cannot see anyone who makes decisions based on risk assessments NOT recommend closing schools.

Icyseanfitz

kippy wrote: »

We are heading for 2k cases a day by this time next week. Contact tracing will be overrun and we will be testing 120k people per seven day rolling average..... Cases will be everywhere. Letting kids back into school at that point will be an incredibly risky behaviour that will only add to the numbers, not dampen them. That's not the same as any time before.
Will see, but cannot see anyone who makes decisions based on risk assessments NOT recommend closing schools.

They kept schools open before with contact tracing overrun, the angle they will use is that children will be safer in a "controlled" and "safe" school environment rather than running wild in the streets if not in school. Complete BS of course in order to keep the economy running along, but that's how it will go.

kippy

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

They kept schools open before with contact tracing overrun, the angle they will use is that children will be safer in a "controlled" and "safe" school environment rather than running wild in the streets if not in school. Complete BS of course in order to keep the economy running along, but that's how it will go.

Different scenario totally this time next week.
Children aren't safe in schools if literally hundreds, if not thousands of them are bringing it into the schools, increasing numbers needed to test, contact trace etc, spreading further into the community.

Icyseanfitz

kippy wrote: »

Different scenario totally this time next week.
Children aren't safe in schools if literally hundreds, if not thousands of them are bringing it into the schools, increasing numbers needed to test, contact trace etc, spreading further into the community.

I agree with you completely, but having seen how easily the fears and dangers of schools with regards covid has and is swept under the carpet and ignored i would put a lot of money on a full return on the 6th regardless of case numbers

wirelessdude01

kippy wrote: »

Different scenario totally this time next week.
Children aren't safe in schools if literally hundreds, if not thousands of them are bringing it into the schools, increasing numbers needed to test, contact trace etc, spreading further into the community.

Didn't you get the memo that schools are a "safe, controlled environment unlike homes"?

khalessi

kippy wrote: »

Different scenario totally this time next week.
Children aren't safe in schools if literally hundreds, if not thousands of them are bringing it into the schools, increasing numbers needed to test, contact trace etc, spreading further into the community.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I agree with you completely, but having seen how easily the fears and dangers of schools with regards covid has and is swept under the carpet and ignored i would put a lot of money on a full return on the 6th regardless of case numbers

Agreed, would be surprised if doors closed on the 6th. Only way we can show what Kippy is saying, is if they test and it sounds like they will be overwhelmed and unable to contact trace so schools will still be "safe".

kippy

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Didn't you get the memo that schools are a "safe, controlled environment unlike homes"?

They are a safe and controlled environment when certain parameters are in met. One of the key things around this is the prevalence of the virus in the community.
Look. Will see how things play out next week but if schools are let back with cases circa 2k per day it will only be a matter of time before they are certain to close because of lack of pupils and/or staff

Loafing Oaf

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Schools will be 100% open come 6th of January, no doubt about it from anyone that works in a school id say, the fact that they kept schools open previously at 1300 cases a day, and throughout level 5 as well as the Monday and Tuesday before Christmas holidays should be evidence enough.

But extending holidays that schools are already on by a week or two (initially) would be less of a palaver than closing them say at the end of November.

Piehead

kippy wrote: »

Different scenario totally this time next week.
Children aren't safe in schools if literally hundreds, if not thousands of them are bringing it into the schools, increasing numbers needed to test, contact trace etc, spreading further into the community.

Exactly right. Schools should remain closed until Easter if not the summer depending on vacation roll out

Lashes28

kippy wrote: »

They are a safe and controlled environment when certain parameters are in met. One of the key things around this is the prevalence of the virus in the community.
Look. Will see how things play out next week but if schools are let back with cases circa 2k per day it will only be a matter of time before they are certain to close because of lack of pupils and/or staff

My son's school was closed last week for all except 3rd and 6th year due to lack of staff.

The school never explained why the staff shortages. But they all had a Christmas party the weekend before and ended up having 20 teachers out 6 with covid and the rest close contacts. Would have been nice of them to tell parents to make an informed decision in sending the kids to school.

KerryConnor

How do you know they had a party? Sounds bs.... I know lots teachers and there were no staff parties this year

Lashes28 wrote: »

My son's school was closed last week for all except 3rd and 6th year due to lack of staff.

The school never explained why the staff shortages. But they all had a Christmas party the weekend before and ended up having 20 teachers out 6 with covid and the rest close contacts. Would have been nice of them to tell parents to make an informed decision in sending the kids to school.