Schools closed until February? (part 3)

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

There seemed an uptick in clusters in schools during the last 10 days or so - would be interesting to see if this continues. Gov really should be looking at a more nuanced response with an underlying aim of keeping schools open but closing schools in areas of high community transmission.

In two weeks, cases in 5 to 18 to year olds have fallen from 18% of total to 13%. While increasing in all age groups, the rapid acceleration has been among adults

lulublue22

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In two weeks, cases in 5 to 18 to year olds have fallen from 18% of total to 13%. While increasing in all age groups, the rapid acceleration has been among adults

I’m not talking about rapid acceleration - I’m talking about clusters in schools increasing - an area that for obvious reasons I’m interested in.

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’m not talking about rapid acceleration - I’m talking about clusters in schools increasing - an area that for obvious reasons I’m interested in.

Clusters in schools went form 18 to 13 to 14 to 19 in the last 4 weeks. No major increase. Back in October it was 42.

Adults are responsible for the latest surge

khalessi

There have been alot of kids diagnosed with covid in Decmeber

https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1343982102237368322

Our own minister said only 65 cases were school transmission.


This is before the strain we will be told we are hysterical about hitting the schools.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1343935068327325696

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

There have been alot of kids diagnosed with covid in Decmeber

https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1343982102237368322

Our own minister said only 65 cases were school transmission.


This is before the strain we will be told we are hysterical about hitting the schools.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1343935068327325696

There have been far far far more adults.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

There have been far far far more adults.

Indeed but schools are safe. There are at least 10,000 kid who have had it. How many spread it asymptomatically?

What do you make of new strain? Will schools still be safe taking into account 40% decreased cleaning budget?

Schools in Hamburg were safe too
https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1343611613182451712


I am getting tired of being told schools safe when I have seen with my own eyes 3 cases not considered school infections despite the kids being in school prior to symptoms, and no pod or bubbles considered close contact.

lulublue22

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Clusters in schools went form 18 to 13 to 14 to 19 in the last 4 weeks. No major increase. Back in October it was 42.

Adults are responsible for the latest surge

Not questioning who is responsible for the latest surge at all - I’m primarily concerned with clusters in school settings - Given that Oct was the peak of our second wave and we are now at the start of our third wave I’ll repeat my statement - It seems like clusters in schools increased in the last 10 days or so I wonder will this continue when we return to school ?

Major increase / rapid acceleration / adults responsible not what I was talking about just a simple clusters in schools seemed to increase over the last 10 days or so ( of school term) I wonder will that continue.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

Not questioning who is responsible for the latest surge at all - I’m primarily concerned with clusters in school settings - Given that Oct was the peak of our second wave and we are now at the start of our third wave I’ll repeat my statement - It seems like clusters in schools increased in the last 10 days or so I wonder will this continue when we return to school ?

Major increase / rapid acceleration / adults responsible not what I was talking about just a simple clusters in schools seemed to increase over the last 10 days or so ( of school term) I wonder will that continue.

And anecdotally from what I've heard from friends, both teachers and principals, the amount of children in those clusters has been increasing as well.

delly

TheValeyard wrote: »

Get TYs to do some testing. Theres not much else they can be doing this year

Now that's the type of outside the box thinking we need, bravo sir!

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And anecdotally from what I've heard from friends, both teachers and principals, the amount of children in those clusters has been increasing as well.

I’ve heard the same but it’s difficult to know for certain when there is such confusion / lack of consistency in who actually is a close contact in a school setting.

delly

Re the school infection rates, a friend got it from his daughter, who got it from a teacher in school. My friends case is marked down as a household transmission, with no ties to the school.

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

Not questioning who is responsible for the latest surge at all - I’m primarily concerned with clusters in school settings - Given that Oct was the peak of our second wave and we are now at the start of our third wave I’ll repeat my statement - It seems like clusters in schools increased in the last 10 days or so I wonder will this continue when we return to school ?

Major increase / rapid acceleration / adults responsible not what I was talking about just a simple clusters in schools seemed to increase over the last 10 days or so ( of school term) I wonder will that continue.

I don’t see the evidence for a significant increase in schools prior to Christmas outside a few high profile cases. On the other hand, if this strain is as different as is said, secondary schools at least may have to have rolling closures. When it gets to a certain level keeping them open won’t slow spread enough to get this back under control. I think we need to wait a little to see is this new strain really responsible for the surge, or is in a significant minority or the population behaving like it’s December 2019. The British data on this is inconclusive and some of the reporting on this strain suggests that it’s mutations are not in the areas that would make it more infectious and the emergence of this strain may just be coinciding with the change in human behaviour. Will get clearer in the next week or two

khalessi

delly wrote: »

Re the school infection rates, a friend got it from his daughter, who got it from a teacher in school. My friends case is marked down as a household transmission, with no ties to the school.

Wouldnt be the first and wont be the last.
Schools are safe;)

lulublue22

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don’t see the evidence for a significant increase in schools prior to Christmas outside a few high profile cases. On the other hand, if this strain is as different as is said, secondary schools at least may have to have rolling closures. When it gets to a certain level keeping them open won’t slow spread enough to get this back under control. I think we need to wait a little to see is this new strain really responsible for the surge, or is in a significant minority or the population behaving like it’s December 2019. The British data on this is inconclusive and some of the reporting on this strain suggests that it’s mutations are not in the areas that would make it more infectious and the emergence of this strain may just be coinciding with the change in human behaviour. Will get clearer in the next week or two

I agree with most of your post re we need more clarity around this new strain in terms of whether it is more transmissible and whether it will become the dominant strain and how this will impact on schools.
again though I disagree with your use of the word significant - I don’t recall using it. I merely said an uptick in clusters. I won’t get into the debate on school transmission as most of us who work in schools have the experience of children not being considered close contacts despite in many cases sitting in the same pod as a child who has tested positive. I understand to many on here who don’t work in schools that this places me firmly in the realms of hysterical over reactor who wants all schools closed indefinitely. However from my perspective while I don’t see schools as being the primary driver of infections I’m not convinced we are seeing the full picture in terms of cases in schools.

ETA - before anyone asks do I think PH are lying - no I don’t I think they have an agenda and in order to promote that agenda there is a different definition of who constitutes a close contact in a school setting based on an assumption that children do not spread covid as rapidly compared to adults. Despite several studies which counter this. Too much emphasis is placed on pods and bubbles which any teacher will tell you is simply groups and classes and has been around since the dawn of time. Contact tracing seems to be all over the place in relation to schools and anecdotes like the one above by Delly are fairly common place. Confidentiality around covid which is not there for head lice or scabies does not help in terms of managing spread.

School staff have done an epic job re cleaning protocols , implementing one way systems , reinforcing SD , hand washing etc. Overall schools have managed quite well. However a little more transparency wouldn’t go astray.

mirrorwall14

I do wonder about some of the rhetoric around teachers. Hand on heart I can say I don’t know a single teacher who wants to go back to teaching from home. We all want schools open. Safely.

But as a parent and teacher I want this treated like head lice and all the other transmissible illnesses I get informed about in school and for my kid. I just want clarity. Case in the class? Tell me. Full stop. No cloak and dagger ****e. There was none of that for years with fecking head lice for Petes sake

wirelessdude01

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I do wonder about some of the rhetoric around teachers. Hand on heart I can say I don’t know a single teacher who wants to go back to teaching from home. We all want schools open. Safely.

But as a parent and teacher I want this treated like head lice and all the other transmissible illnesses I get informed about in school and for my kid. I just want clarity. Case in the class? Tell me. Full stop. No cloak and dagger ****e. There was none of that for years with fecking head lice for Petes sake

I didn't realise until today, when a principal friend of mine told me, schools cannot be informed of a students positive result unless the parent consents to it. Explains why you hear so much about schools asking their parents to be open with them and inform them of positive results as soon as they know about them.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I didn't realise until today, when a principal friend of mine told me, schools cannot be informed of a students positive result unless the parent consents to it. Explains why you hear so much about schools asking their parents to be open with them and inform them of positive results as soon as they know about them.

I find this extremely frustrating when headlice , scabies etc are notifiable diseases/ conditions yet a once in a lifetime ( hopefully) global pandemic is not.

khalessi

INTO General Secretary John Boyle has written to Minister Foley calling for a delayed reopening of our schools.

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

I find this extremely frustrating when headlice , scabies etc are notifiable diseases/ conditions yet a once in a lifetime ( hopefully) global pandemic is not.

Yes it is
https://www.hpsc.ie/notifiablediseases/listofnotifiablediseases/Immediate%20preliminary%20notification%20to%20a%20MOH%2004032020.pdf

lulublue22

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes it is
https://www.hpsc.ie/notifiablediseases/listofnotifiablediseases/Immediate%20preliminary%20notification%20to%20a%20MOH%2004032020.pdf

Not in a school setting - headlice and scabies are - school has to send home notification re same . There is no onus on parents to inform school re positive covid case there is for headlice and scabies.

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

INTO General Secretary John Boyle has written to Minister Foley calling for a delayed reopening of our schools.

Sorry but it is a pi$$ poor letter. Lacks any leadership. I'd also wonder has their been any talk between the three unions of a joint approach to this or is this just JB reacting to the lambasting he's getting on social media over the past few days.

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

Not in a school setting - headlice and scabies are - school has to send home notification re same . There is no onus on parents to inform school re positive covid case there is for headlice and scabies.

Are all these hse notification letters on Facebook fake?

SusanC10

I just want a choice. As Parents.
I have posted a few times about our friends in the US. Usually, I just use 1 example but there are 3 families in 3 different States - 2 friends, 1 cousin. All of them have a Choice. All Public Schools. All have chosen Remote Learning.
1 family has a SAHM, other 2 families have 2 working Parents. All of them make it work. And the Choice is there. All of these Schools have both Students physically at school and students Remote Learning.

lulublue22

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are all these hse notification letters on Facebook fake?

I don’t know are they ? but we are talking about 2 different things - I didn’t mention HSE notification I referenced headlice and scabies as notifiable diseases from a school perspective not from a HSE perspective. It frustrates me that covid 19 is not notifiable in a school setting in the same way headlice and scabies are. You are free to disagree with that opinion but as outlined it is not notifiable in school as headlice and scabies are.

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

Are all these hse notification letters on Facebook fake?

Nice. Muddy the waters by confusing what we are discussing.

mirrorwall14

As far as I know the HSE letter is only sent for the first case in a school. When they realised that the Facebook group was sharing them they stopped sending them

The difference is for scabies, head lice etc the school must inform parents. For covid, the school may not even be told. Which is completely ludicrous

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

Are all these hse notification letters on Facebook fake?

Principals are not allowed tell teachers or parents if they have a case in the school unlike scabies, slapped cheek, chicken pox, headlice.

I had 3 cases in December of Covid where the kids were in school then yanked out and we were never informed by HSE therefore no close contacts or pods isolated.

There have also been teachers who were told on speaking to HSE tracer that depsite them saying the only place they could have picked it up was school were put down as community transmission.

You can say numbers are low in schools but they are also incorrect if the above is happening a lot.

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

I don’t know are they ? but we are talking about 2 different things - I didn’t mention HSE notification I referenced headlice and scabies as notifiable diseases from a school perspective not from a HSE perspective. It frustrates me that covid 19 is not notifiable in a school setting in the same way headlice and scabies are. You are free to disagree with that opinion but as outlined it is not notifiable in school as headlice and scabies are.

All I could find was the below guidance

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/National-Emergencies-Public-Health-Issues/Management-of-Infectious-Disease-in-Schools.pdf

This does not appear to mandate notification but suggests it may notify. Unless there is a widespread outbreak all these would be managed locally however. What these conditions don’t have however is a full time hse task force taking huge resources working on them everyday of the week and most conditions on the notifiable disease list that the hspc have are not on the department guidance. It is the hse and hspc who have the competencies to make decisions on public health matters

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

All I could find was the below guidance

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/National-Emergencies-Public-Health-Issues/Management-of-Infectious-Disease-in-Schools.pdf

This does not appear to mandate notification but suggests it may notify. Unless there is a widespread outbreak all these would be managed locally however. What these conditions don’t have however is a full time hse task force taking huge resources working on them everyday of the week and most conditions on the notifiable disease list that the hspc have are not on the department guidance. It is the hse and hspc who have the competencies to make decisions on public health matters

In some cases they are wrong for example Claremorris.

lulublue22

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All I could find was the below guidance

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/National-Emergencies-Public-Health-Issues/Management-of-Infectious-Disease-in-Schools.pdf

This does not appear to mandate notification but suggests it may notify. Unless there is a widespread outbreak all these would be managed locally however. What these conditions don’t have however is a full time hse task force taking huge resources working on them everyday of the week and most conditions on the notifiable disease list that the hspc have are not on the department guidance. It is the hse and hspc who have the competencies to make decisions on public health matters

We will have to agree to disagree on this - the poster I was replying to and those who work in schools know exactly what I mean and I would hazard a guess tend to agree with what was posted. It’s best at this stage if it’s left at that.