Schools closed until February? (part 3)

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

Principals are not allowed tell teachers or parents if they have a case in the school unlike scabies, slapped cheek, chicken pox, headlice.

I had 3 cases in December of Covid where the kids were in school then yanked out and we were never informed by HSE therefore no close contacts or pods isolated.

There have also been teachers who were told on speaking to HSE tracer that depsite them saying the only place they could have picked it up was school were put down as community transmission.

You can say numbers are low in schools but they are also incorrect if the above is happening a lot.

Lots of kids tested positive after being contacts of their parents so would be isolating prior to testing. Also, anyone developing symptoms after Sunday afternoon would not be traced to school or workplaces. The assumption is that every child who got the virus caught it in school. This is false. Most picked it up in family environments.

And while teachers who contacted the virus may believe they caught it at school, in the absence of another case in the school community it can’t be put down as school. Lots of people in lots of environments don’t know where they got the virus

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

We will have to agree to disagree on this - the poster I was replying to and those who work in schools know exactly what I mean and I would hazard a guess tend to agree with what was posted. It’s best at this stage if it’s left at that.

This could very easily turn into something similar to the standardised school year debacle where someone's interpretation is completely I correct. We all know what actually occurs with regards to Covid and being informed about it.

Bananaleaf

Deleted User wrote: »

And while teachers who contacted the virus may believe they caught it at school, in the absence of another case in the school community it can’t be put down as school. Lots of people in lots of environments don’t know where they got the virus

In the absence of a symptomatic case in the school community

jrosen

Both our schools have notified us of cases of covid. Not student names which I agree with. All medical information should be private. But we were told of the cases, how many and in what year.

Same with head lice in the class and then same last year with slapped cheek outbreak. Although I believe that only went to the class the child was in and not across the year or school.

I do feel more transparency would help.

Remote seems to be working well for those I know using it. Not without its faults but definitely seems an acceptable alternative when delivered correctly.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

I do feel more transparency would help.

Most teachers would be delighted with a little more clarity and transparency.

Bananaleaf

jrosen wrote: »

Both our schools have notified us of cases of covid. Not student names which I agree with. All medical information should be private. But we were told of the cases, how many and in what year.

Same with head lice in the class and then same last year with slapped cheek outbreak. Although I believe that only went to the class the child was in and not across the year or school.

I do feel more transparency would help.

Remote seems to be working well for those I know using it. Not without its faults but definitely seems an acceptable alternative when delivered correctly.

More transparency would help. In our school we are told the names of students who test positive because their parents make the choice to inform us. Which I really respect them for. EVERY TIME our school has been informed of a positive Covid case by the HSE, we have known about between 5hrs and 48hrs beforehand because of responsible students and parents. It means that student close contacts (staff close contacts never exist) have already started the isolation period before they've even been notified by the HSE.

The fact that the school I work in has handled Sep-Dec so well is more about how the community are dealing with it and less about how the school are. Even less again about the govt and HSE.

Bananaleaf

Bananaleaf wrote: »

In the absence of a symptomatic case in the school community

Children are not more likely to be asymptomatic than adults under 60

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of kids tested positive after being contacts of their parents so would be isolating prior to testing. Also, anyone developing symptoms after Sunday afternoon would not be traced to school or workplaces. The assumption is that every child who got the virus caught it in school. This is false. Most picked it up in family environments.

And while teachers who contacted the virus may believe they caught it at school, in the absence of another case in the school community it can’t be put down as school. Lots of people in lots of environments don’t know where they got the virus

The 3 were in the same class and no close contacts identified, give me a break. Lots of teachers know they got it in school. For example, I go into school and see no other teacers only students. I stay in my room except to collect my students and drop them back to the classroom door. I dont eat in the staffroom and most of my coleagues do similar. I then collect my kids and go home. They only are in school and home so if any of us get it it will be a school transmission.

This is happening and just because you dont believe it doesnt make it false.

Not once in all the months you have posted here have you conceeded that teachers actually may have a point even when public health said they were being deiberately conservative on school cases.

I am happy you live in a world of stats and graphs but there was a book I am sure you are familiar with called How to Lie with Statistics is a book written by Darrell Huff in 1954 and it was a college reference book for a long time. Depending on how the questions you ask, the way you collate stats can be alterted to give any impression.

So while you have stats I have the real world where I see this stuff happening. Schools may be low in number but doesnt mean the stats are not altered to make it look as so.

What is the difference between listing it as school or community or unknown, optics and optics and optics are very important to this government when it comes to schools. So I get it schools are safe hmmm

Jinglejangle69

khalessi wrote: »

The 3 were in the same class and no close contacts identified, give me a break. Lots of teachers know they got it in school. For example, I go into school and see no other teacers only students. I stay in my room except to collect my students and drop them back to the classroom door. I dont eat in the staffroom and most of my coleagues do similar. I then collect my kids and go home. They only are in school and home so if any of us get it it will be a school transmission.

This is happening and just because you dont believe it doesnt make it false.

Not once in all the months you have posted here have you conceeded that teachers actually may have a point even when public health said they were being deiberately conservative on school cases.

I am happy you live in a world of stats and graphs but there was a book I am sure you are familiar with called How to Lie with Statistics is a book written by Darrell Huff in 1954 and it was a college reference book for a long time. Depending on how the questions you ask, the way you collate stats can be alterted to give any impression.

So while you have stats I have the real world where I see this stuff happening. Schools may be low in number but doesnt mean the stats are not altered to make it look as so.

What is the difference between listing it as school or community or unknown, optics and optics and optics are very important to this government when it comes to schools. So I get it schools are safe hmmm

You know for sure all the teachers in your school go to work and then home and that's it??

Give me a break please.

Bananaleaf

Deleted User wrote: »

Children are not more likely to be asymptomatic than adults under 60

But they still exist. Unless we test the whole country, we don't know what percentage of the population is asymptomatic. I totally understand the point you are making about possible school cases being classified as CT cases and why they come to be classified that way, but I just don't think that is good enough.

It wasn't that long ago that community transmission was the worst thing in the world that a case could be described as. Now we are happy to take community transmission over classroom transmission. I don't understand it.

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

The 3 were in the same class and no close contacts identified, give me a break. Lots of teachers know they got it in school. For example, I go into school and see no other teacers only students. I stay in my room except to collect my students and drop them back to the classroom door. I dont eat in the staffroom and most of my coleagues do similar. I then collect my kids and go home. They only are in school and home so if any of us get it it will be a school transmission.

This is happening and just because you dont believe it doesnt make it false.

Not once in all the months you have posted here have you conceeded that teachers actually may have a point even when public health said they were being deiberately conservative on school cases.

I am happy you live in a world of stats and graphs but there was a book I am sure you are familiar with called How to Lie with Statistics is a book written by Darrell Huff in 1954 and it was a college reference book for a long time. Depending on how the questions you ask, the way you collate stats can be alterted to give any impression.

So while you have stats I have the real world where I see this stuff happening. Schools may be low in number but doesnt mean the stats are not altered to make it look as so.

What is the difference between listing it as school or community or unknown, optics and optics and optics are very important to this government when it comes to schools. So I get it schools are safe hmmm

You are extrapolating individual cases to the general. I am not questioning you own personal experience, just how that relates to the general.

I also never said I don’t believe there is transmission in schools. Just that what is happening in schools is being driven by their communities, such as in Claremorris, seen as you brought up that example. And a few pages back you may notice i even suggested we may need to consider rolling closures of secondary schools at least if current tends in the community continue

hesaidshesaid

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You know for sure all the teachers in your school go to work and then home and that's it??

Give me a break please.

I can vouch for the fact that at least 80% of the teachers and SNAs in our school are doing this.

I suspect the other 20% are doing it but we don't ever see each other as the staffroom is out of bounds.

I have friends teaching in multiple schools across the country and they say the same of their staff members.

Many of us have elderly parents, vulnerable kids, are pregnant etc. so we are trying very hard to stay safe outside school hours. It's not possible to be safe during school hours.

I paid €250 for a covid pcr test on the Tuesday schools closed so that I might have some chance of seeing my elderly parents over the holidays. I can't see them during term time. On seeing my occupation on the form, the nurse remarked on the many, many teachers she had tested that day and who were booked in for the following day.

Teachers in the main are taking their safety, the safety of their families and the safety of their students very seriously. Maybe give us a break, for once?

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

You are extrapolating individual cases to the general. I am not questioning you own personal experience, just how that relates to the general.

I also never said I don’t believe there is transmission in schools. Just that what is happening in schools is being driven by their communities, such as in Claremorris, seen as you brought up that example. And a few pages back you may notice i even suggested we may need to consider rolling closures of secondary schools at least if current tends in the community continue

So 3 kids in same class did not give it to one another, also you dont see the need for close contacts to be identified in that room?

I am not extrapolating what I am saying is that you keep ignoring what is going on. Did I say anywhere it is happeneing in the majority of cases, no. I did however put up cases earlier on of teachers talking about their experiences dealing with HSE and being told no matter what they were community spread not school, even though for them that was the only option.

But continue in ivory tower, I hope the view is good.

alroley

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You know for sure all the teachers in your school go to work and then home and that's it??

Give me a break please.

I live with 3 other teachers and all we do is go to school, go home, go for a walk around our area, go home again.

khalessi

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

I can vouch for the fact that at least 80% of the teachers and SNAs in our school are doing this.

I suspect the other 20% are doing it but we don't ever see each other as the staffroom is out of bounds.

I have friends teaching in multiple schools across the country and they say the same of their staff members.

Many of us have elderly parents, vulnerable kids, are pregnant etc. so we are trying very hard to stay safe outside school hours. It's not possible to be safe during school hours.

I paid €250 for a covid pcr test on the Tuesday schools closed so that I might have some chance of seeing my elderly parents over the holidays. I can't see them during term time. On seeing my occupation on the form, the nurse remarked on the many, many teachers she had tested that day and who were booked in for the following day.

Teachers in the main are taking their safety, the safety of their families and the safety of their students very seriously. Maybe give us a break, for once?

I didnt bother replying to him/her as he is slagging off teachers in other threads and generally moans about them and also couldnt read my post properly. Why waste the effort?

deiseindublin

yet continues to post without sanction.

JeffKenna

I don't work in a school but the people I know that do all have the same story of cases being manipulated. It can't be a coincidence they're all saying it.

Jinglejangle69

alroley wrote: »

I live with 3 other teachers and all we do is go to school, go home, go for a walk around our area, go home again.

Shopping?

Xmas, clothes, presents.

Yeah OK.

Jinglejangle69

JeffKenna wrote: »

I don't work in a school but the people I know that do all have the same story of cases being manipulated. It can't be a coincidence they're all saying it.

You never came back to me with that claim a NHPET woman said covid can't spread in school.

This thread is hilarious:)

wirelessdude01

alroley wrote: »

I live with 3 other teachers and all we do is go to school, go home, go for a walk around our area, go home again.

My Mrs is also a teacher. Home, work, home is the routine Monday to Friday for us. The highlight of the week is the shopping trip where thanks to Covid her hankering to browse the stationary aisle has been knocked on the head and this it is now very much a get in and get out shopping trip. We don't go visiting, don't have visitors. We think we owe it to us, our families and without saying it our classes to keep our circle as small as possible. In my school this appears to be very much the case for all the staff. We all have someone in our family who we are protecting by our actions. As for the staffroom we have our staff bubbles and most people in my bubble tend to eat and be gone in less than 10mins. Go for a quick walk to get some air or else retreat back to their room if the kids are outside.

Bananaleaf

Bananaleaf wrote: »

But they still exist. Unless we test the whole country, we don't know what percentage of the population is asymptomatic. I totally understand the point you are making about possible school cases being classified as CT cases and why they come to be classified that way, but I just don't think that is good enough.

It wasn't that long ago that community transmission was the worst thing in the world that a case could be described as. Now we are happy to take community transmission over classroom transmission. I don't understand it.

30 cases in my workplace resulted in 170 close contacts being tested. These are production environments where people are in close contact for extended periods of time. None of the contacts were positive thankfully. But many of the cases were never traced and were “community transmission”. Should these have been classed as workplace, because you know, they must have been because they work close to lots of other people, and even though there was no evidence of onward transmission, it has to be, right?

If you don’t know, you can’t claim to know, but we all should work like possibility is always there. That’s all you can do

wirelessdude01

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Shopping?

Xmas, clothes, presents.

Yeah OK.

Ever hear of a thing called the internet which allows these things to be delivered to your door?

Jinglejangle69

So all teachers go to work, go home and go for a walk and that's it.

Nothing else.

Spare me, lads seriously!!

I'm done until people can have a debate and tell the truth.

Enjoy.

hesaidshesaid

khalessi wrote: »

I didnt bother replying to him/her as he is slagging off teachers in other threads and generally moans about them and also couldnt read my post properly. Why waste the effort?

I see your point. Just hard to hold back sometimes when you are doing all you can and you know that so many other colleagues are doing the same.

What's your feeling on what will happen next, khalessi and other teachers? I read JB's letter - where the 40% reduction in funding for PPE wasn't even mentioned! - and he has only asked for a 3 day delay. I can't see how that would benefit anyone to be honest. Surely you would need longer if it was to be an effective circuit-breaker. Also, on the PPE reduction, does this include the sanitiser for everyone's hands? I think it must. The unchanged amount seems to be for cleaning, so that must be to pay cleaners for the extra cleaning hours. They can't expect kids and staff to go back without adequate hand sanitiser??

JeffKenna

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You never came back to me with that claim a NHPET woman said covid can't spread in school.

This thread is hilarious:)

You retracted your statement calling me a lair no? In any case the other posters here are right, you're a WUM and it's amazing you haven't been banned from the site.

deiseindublin

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I'm done until people can have a debate and tell the truth.

Thank Christ for that, could you pinky promise?

wirelessdude01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

30 cases in my workplace resulted in 170 close contacts being tested. These are production environments where people are in close contact for extended periods of time. None of the contacts were positive thankfully. But many of the cases were never traced and were “community transmission”. Should these have been classed as workplace, because you know, they must have been because they work close to lots of other people, and even though there was no evidence of onward transmission, it has to be, right?

If you don’t know, you can’t claim to know, but we all should work like possibility is always there. That’s all you can do

So do we surmise then that your workplace didn't have adequate Covid procedures in place?

Beasty

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Shopping?

Xmas, clothes, presents.

Yeah OK.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You never came back to me with that claim a NHPET woman said covid can't spread in school.

This thread is hilarious:)

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So all teachers go to work, go home and go for a walk and that's it.

Nothing else.

Spare me, lads seriously!!

I'm done until people can have a debate and tell the truth.

Enjoy.

I'm please you are "done", as you are now threadbanned

Bananaleaf

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Shopping?

Xmas, clothes, presents.

Yeah OK.

I have gone shopping but bought all Xmas presents online and had them sent to family and friends

Haven't bought many pieces of clothing since lockdown (had to get a friend who had a hospital appointment to smuggle me some socks back into the county at one point because there was nowhere within a 5km radius that sold them)

I know lots of people who have done the same. Some teachers, some not. There are people who take the restrictions seriously you know

combat14

serious problems with covid in the uk now (gaurdian news)

Scientists call for full lockdown in England as new Covid cases multiply -
Independent Sage group warns of ‘tens of thousands of avoidable deaths’ without immediate action

NHS could face 'horrendous choices' over who gets coronavirus care
Decisions about which patients receive life-saving treatment could be imminent, doctors warn



on the plus side looks like teachers there are going to be given priority for new vaccines



English secondary schools unlikely to fully open until mid-January at earliest
Ministers thrash out new plans including staff being given high priority for Covid vaccinations