Schools closed until February? (part 3)

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

There are people who take the restrictions seriously you know

The idiots who didn't are the ones who have landed is in this crap.

Bananaleaf

Deleted User wrote: »

30 cases in my workplace resulted in 170 close contacts being tested. These are production environments where people are in close contact for extended periods of time. None of the contacts were positive thankfully. But many of the cases were never traced and were “community transmission”. Should these have been classed as workplace, because you know, they must have been because they work close to lots of other people, and even though there was no evidence of onward transmission, it has to be, right?

If you don’t know, you can’t claim to know, but we all should work like possibility is always there. That’s all you can do

Of course if you don't know, you don't know. You are right. But in the scenario above, you actually don't know. Becuase you've tested and traced.

In many cases in schools they are not admitting the close contact bit and that is the bit I have a problem with.

Blondini

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The idiots who didn't are the ones who have landed is in this crap.

I've a great way to filter such people. As soon as they refer to any restrictions as "nonsense" , you know you are dealing with a moron.

Anyway, emergency cabinet meeting tomorrow. I wonder what the discussion will be around schools?

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Of course if you don't know, you don't know. You are right. But in the scenario above, you actually don't know. Becuase you've tested and traced.

In many cases in schools they are not admitting the close contact bit and that is the bit I have a problem with.

The twisting and manipulation of the close contact definition in schools makes so many of us suspect what we are told. Clarity and transparency would alleviate most of our concerns.

wirelessdude01

Blondini wrote: »

I've a great way to filter such people. As soon as they refer to any restrictions as "nonsense" , you know you are dealing with a moron.

Anyway, emergency cabinet meeting tomorrow. I wonder what the discussion will be around schools?

I suspect schools discussion won't happen tomorrow as if it is allowed it will be leaked straight away.

Any disclosure of school information cannot happen until Monday the earliest.

lulublue22

Blondini wrote: »

I've a great way to filter such people. As soon as they refer to any restrictions as "nonsense" , you know you are dealing with a moron.

Anyway, emergency cabinet meeting tomorrow. I wonder what the discussion will be around schools?

Stephen Donnelly reported as saying ph advice on schools hasn’t changed one bit so I reckon nothing. Doubt the 40% reduction in the cleaning budget will be mentioned either.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

. Doubt the 40% reduction in the cleaning budget will be mentioned either.

Cannot believe JB didn't think that was worthy of a mention in his correspondence.

hesaidshesaid

Just a note for any parents or non-teachers on here.

As mentioned above, John Boyle, head of the INTO, the primary teachers' union, has written to government asking for a three day delay in returning to school.

At no point prior to John Boyle's letter being sent was any teacher consulted. There was no poll, no vote, no contact. We heard about it when you did. IMO it's not a great argument as three days will not solve anything. We need a more sustainable, bigger picture solution which at least examines possibilities such as blended learning, class size reduction (half-in, half-out) etc. These are not ideal solutions but neither is having kids at home indefinitely. Everyone back to school just hoping for the best is madness.

Anyone who thinks that the teacher unions have any power with government at this point is sorely mistaken.

wirelessdude01

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Just a note for any parents or non-teachers on here.

As mentioned above, John Boyle, head of the INTO, the primary teachers' union, has written to government asking for a three day delay in returning to school.

At no point prior to John Boyle's letter being sent was any teacher consulted. There was no poll, no vote, no contact. We heard about it when you did. IMO it's not a great argument as three days will not solve anything. We need a more sustainable, bigger picture solution which at least examines possibilities such as blended learning, class size reduction (half-in, half-out) etc. These are not ideal solutions but neither is having kids at home indefinitely. Everyone back to school just hoping for the best is madness.

Anyone who thinks that the teacher unions have any power with government at this point is sorely mistaken.

I'm.sure someone will be along soon to mention pay and/or holidays as well.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The twisting and manipulation of the close contact definition in schools makes so many of us suspect what we are told. Clarity and transparency would alleviate most of our concerns.

If you like twisting and manipulation, here's a good experience I had back in October:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115038601&postcount=4168

Now, how many times has that happened in schools around Ireland I wonder?

combat14

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Just a note for any parents or non-teachers on here.

As mentioned above, John Boyle, head of the INTO, the primary teachers' union, has written to government asking for a three day delay in returning to school.

At no point prior to John Boyle's letter being sent was any teacher consulted. There was no poll, no vote, no contact. We heard about it when you did. IMO it's not a great argument as three days will not solve anything. We need a more sustainable, bigger picture solution which at least examines possibilities such as blended learning, class size reduction (half-in, half-out) etc. These are not ideal solutions but neither is having kids at home indefinitely. Everyone back to school just hoping for the best is madness.

Anyone who thinks that the teacher unions have any power with government at this point is sorely mistaken.

3 days wont make a blind bit of difference .. hospitals in england are overwhelmed with people waiting to be treated in hospital car parks..

we wont be far behind them at this rate

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

If you like twisting and manipulation, here's a good experience I had back in October:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115038601&postcount=4168

Now, how many times has that happened in schools around Ireland I wonder?

Not just schools. I know of a meat processing company where something similar happened and what should have been a relatively small out real turned into a massive one. Managers can be idiots at times.

Bananaleaf

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Of course if you don't know, you don't know. You are right. But in the scenario above, you actually don't know. Becuase you've tested and traced.

In many cases in schools they are not admitting the close contact bit and that is the bit I have a problem with.

Well, we are actually traced once a work contact is referred for test with Covid symptoms and isolate pending results, so will admit it’s not the same

wirelessdude01

Reading some of the comments online about the INTO letter. You can all guess what the most commonly used words and phrases are so.i won't bore you all with them.

What is frightening though is how people don't even bother reading the article. Just jump straight in with their opinion on teachers, not on the situation or what is contained in the article. Frightening how lazy the comments actually are..

vafankillar

genuine question, why are nphet so set on keeping schools open? like I dont understand if they don't mind closing literally everything else and since inside areas are such high infection rates? whats going on? like I get why the government dont want to but dont understand nphets stance

khalessi

vafankillar wrote: »

genuine question, why are nphet so set on keeping schools open? like I dont understand if they don't mind closing literally everything else and since inside areas are such high infection rates? whats going on? like I get why the government dont want to but dont understand nphets stance

The government when they came to power last year made a song and dance about getting schools reopened and now it is keeping them open. All about optics and votes, Norma herself said it was childminding necesseties, she never mentioned education in a quote somewhere in December.

I am sure someone can dig up the photo with the proper quote.

Basically they need a workforce and wont have one if parents are minding their kids due to a pandemic.

jrosen

vafankillar wrote: »

genuine question, why are nphet so set on keeping schools open? like I dont understand if they don't mind closing literally everything else and since inside areas are such high infection rates? whats going on? like I get why the government dont want to but dont understand nphets stance

I reckon it’s more government than anything else. Kids home from school with a system that is not set up to deliver remote education is a disaster. Not just in the immediate but long term.

If we had a remote system in place we would be having a very different discussion but we don’t.

Rightly or wrongly we have an entwined school/work set up. There are many people who would be unable to return to work if their kids were not in school.

It’s risk V reward and striking that balance

Inquitus

vafankillar wrote: »

genuine question, why are nphet so set on keeping schools open? like I dont understand if they don't mind closing literally everything else and since inside areas are such high infection rates? whats going on? like I get why the government dont want to but dont understand nphets stance

There seems to be some delusion that schools are safe, and they are not. 2 classes in my daughters primary school, including her's were sent home for the last week prior to Christmas and all tested twice, thankfully the large majority were negative, but there were plenty of postives. My wife works in a creche as an ECCE teacher and it has closed 3 times this year due to positive tests in staff and children. I will think long and hard about sending my kids back in in a week or so's time when the schools re-open, as frankly I think they are a major contributor to the spread in this country.

Blondini

vafankillar wrote: »

genuine question, why are nphet so set on keeping schools open? like I dont understand if they don't mind closing literally everything else and since inside areas are such high infection rates? whats going on? like I get why the government dont want to but dont understand nphets stance

Childminding for working parents.

Not mental health.
Not social issues.
Not holistic development.
Not blah de blah....

It's all about Childminding.

Inquitus

Blondini wrote: »

Childminding for working parents.

Not mental health.
Not social issues.
Not holistic development.
Not blah de blah....

It's all about Childminding.

100% it's about the impact on the economy of people having to mind their kids during the day.

jrosen

Inquitus wrote: »

There seems to be some delusion that schools are safe, and they are not. 2 classes in my daughters primary school, including her's were sent home for the last week prior to Christmas and all tested twice, thankfully the large majority were negative, but there were plenty of postives. My wife works in a creche as an ECCE teacher and it has closed 3 times this year due to positive tests in staff and children. I will think long and hard about sending my kids back in in a week or so's time when the schools re-open, as frankly I think they are a major contributor to the spread in this country.

You could argue getting in a car is not safe, or swimming is not safe. Everything we do carries risk Do you honestly believe there are people who believe schools are a covid free zone?

Not once have I heard of anyone make that claim. Apart from the covid conspiracy people who think it’s all a hoax.

khalessi

jrosen wrote: »

You could argue getting in a car is not safe, or swimming is not safe. Everything we do carries risk Do you honestly believe there are people who believe schools are a covid free zone?

Not once have I heard of anyone make that claim. Apart from the covid conspiracy people who think it’s all a hoax.

There are plenty of people who think schools are prefectly safe because they have been told by the government they are. It also lessens the fear of the virus that schools are kept open even when the numbers escalate because children would never be put at risk would they?

Re your analogy of getting into a car, most have safety precautions and car accidents are not contagious. Swimming is safe depending on where you swim, the knowledge you have of the water and your ability to swim.

This virus is contagious and the proper identification of close contacts, testing and transparency is not happensing as it should in schools

vafankillar

again nphet don't give a **** about the economy or government's perspective. why would itt be childminding when they recommending a full level 5 lockdown? sure nearly everyone would be at home?

it's weird to me that people who trust nphet and joke about others being facebook experts are suddenly experts over nphet themself when it comes to schools

khalessi

vafankillar wrote: »

again nphet don't give a **** about the economy or government's perspective. why would itt be childminding when they recommending a full level 5 lockdown? sure nearly everyone would be at home?

it's weird to me that people who trust nphet and joke about others being facebook experts are suddenly experts over nphet themself when it comes to schools

Public health consultants associated with HSE said it a few months ago during a televised update and was further backed up by another PHC online. Also Min of Education mentioned child minding necessities when asked about schools in December but never mentioned education.

hesaidshesaid

jrosen wrote: »

You could argue getting in a car is not safe, or swimming is not safe. Everything we do carries risk Do you honestly believe there are people who believe schools are a covid free zone?

Not once have I heard of anyone make that claim. Apart from the covid conspiracy people who think it’s all a hoax.

Do you honestly believe that schools are the 'safe places' Norma Foley and Micheál Martin keep repeating they are?

They may not be saying the words 'covid free zones' but they are very clearly pushing the message that schools are safe. Many school cases are classed as community transmission to perpetuate this myth.

Surely you can understand that this relentless, disingenuous messaging is beyond frustrating to those working in education? No one is claiming that other crowded buildings such as meat plants are 'safe places'.

jrosen

khalessi wrote: »

There are plenty of people who think schools are prefectly safe because they have been told by the government they are. It also lessens the fear of the virus that schools are kept open even when the numbers escalate because children would never be put at risk would they?

Re your analogy of getting into a car, most have safety precautions and car accidents are not contagious. Swimming is safe depending on where you swim, the knowledge you have of the water and your ability to swim.

This virus is contagious and the proper identification of close contacts, testing and transparency is not happensing as it should in schools

So the government have actually said schools are covid safe zones?

I must have missed that memo.

lulublue22

jrosen wrote: »

So the government have actually said schools are covid safe zones?

I must have missed that memo.

must have

khalessi

jrosen wrote: »

So the government have actually said schools are covid safe zones?

I must have missed that memo.

Obviously, they have said schools are safe, remember our trampoline minister and our taoiseach.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-are-safe-they-are-safer-than-being-outside-of-schools-taoiseach-adamant-classes-will-resume-despite-asti-threat-39683194.html

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

So the government have actually said schools are covid safe zones?

I must have missed that memo.

Safer than homes anyway going by their statements.

lulublue22

khalessi wrote: »

Obviously, they have said schools are safe, remember our trampoline minister and our taoiseach.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-are-safe-they-are-safer-than-being-outside-of-schools-taoiseach-adamant-classes-will-resume-despite-asti-threat-39683194.html

So safe 40% of the cleaning budget was cut on the 22nd of Dec.