Schools closed until February? (part 3)

khalessi

Deeec wrote: »

Im afraid you are right. Its too late to plan now. If schools do close we will be back to the mess it was from Mar - Jun with parents blaming teachers and teachers blaming parents, Norma staying silent and saying all is grand and most parents/teachers working their asses off trying to keep kids educated.

This is what they would prefer as then Dept would not have to take any responsibility for any decisions they made.

lulublue22

Deeec wrote: »

Im afraid you are right. Its too late to plan now. If schools do close we will be back to the mess it was from Mar - Jun with parents blaming teachers and teachers blaming parents, Norma staying silent and saying all is grand and most parents/teachers working their asses off trying to keep kids educated.

General consensus seems to be no change in opinion on schools re the cabinet meeting today. Will be interesting to see if they will at least row back on the 40% cut to the ppe/ cleaning budget.

Deeec

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am absolutely dreading the thoughts of sending the Kids back to school next week. We live in an area with a high number of cases currently.
We are seriously considering keeping them both at home initially as if they were to go back, it would mean that they would be the only ones in our household having any outside contacts except for deliveries to our house.

Has anyone (Parent) here just kept their kids at home for more than 20 days this Academic Year and just told Tusla that they didn't feel schools were safe ?

We don't want to formally apply to Homeschool as this is purely relating to the Pandemic.

I am thinking the same as you SusanC. Some childrens families will have just had a normal christmas and vistited and partied as they pleased. Some may have even left the country over christmas. Hopefully the decision will be made for us and schools will remain closed.

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am absolutely dreading the thoughts of sending the Kids back to school next week. We live in an area with a high number of cases currently.
We are seriously considering keeping them both at home initially as if they were to go back, it would mean that they would be the only ones in our household having any outside contacts except for deliveries to our house.

Has anyone (Parent) here just kept their kids at home for more than 20 days this Academic Year and just told Tusla that they didn't feel schools were safe ?

We don't want to formally apply to Homeschool as this is purely relating to the Pandemic.

It's been said many times on here and other threads. The Tusla thing is a misnomer. Nothing will happen.

combat14

no need for remote learning plan
all schools will be open
cough cough

JimmyVik

I think people should just keep their kids home if they they are uncomfortable.
Do what they said when the numbers were lower than they are now back in March and April - Assume everyone has the virus (even school children).

khalessi

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think people should just keep their kids home if they they are uncomfortable.
Do what they said when the numbers were lower than they are now back in March and April - Assume everyone has the virus (even school children).

In March April the school buldings were officially shut so it is not the same as keeping the kids out now. But yes if necessary keep them out.

appledrop

100% expect us to be back on 6th Jan.

But government should expect that it will all start falling apart very quickly. I'd give it 2 weeks max before its a mess.

With cases as high as there are + numbers will be 2000+ by then, every school is going to have staff absence due to close contact or positive etc, students same so while whole school might not technically close expect whole classes or year groups to be sent home on rolling basis.

I just hope everyone is prepared for that.

scrubs33

khalessi wrote: »

Abosolute disgrace, we were told back during the holidays that this was being worked on but nothing appeared. I think they felt if they had put such a policy in place, people would expect them to use it when things got bad and also they would be responsiible if it went tits up. Easier to release a policy telling teachers to get online learning sorted and blame schools.

I think the document that came out before Christmas for secondary schools (I think there was a primary version in November?) around blended/remote learning will be the Depts get out of jail card: ‘look we provided guidance but the big bad schools did nothing with it’ Depending on numbers if there is to be any announcement it won’t be until Monday and at that I’m sure it will only be until the 11th. In my own opinion we’ll be back as scheduled(by hook or by crook):too much to lose for the powers that be.

Stateofyou

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am absolutely dreading the thoughts of sending the Kids back to school next week. We live in an area with a high number of cases currently.
We are seriously considering keeping them both at home initially as if they were to go back, it would mean that they would be the only ones in our household having any outside contacts except for deliveries to our house.

Has anyone (Parent) here just kept their kids at home for more than 20 days this Academic Year and just told Tusla that they didn't feel schools were safe ?

We don't want to formally apply to Homeschool as this is purely relating to the Pandemic.

We haven't but a family we know has. They said Tusla told them they weren't interested in chasing people with the year that's in it and as long as the parents have communicated with the school what their plan is they have no problem.

Our kids aren't going back straight away. That will put them over the 20 days. Tusla can try come for us that's all I'll say...

Bananaleaf

lulublue22 wrote: »

TBH I think the ship has sailed on a remote learning plan. Unless the dep play a blinder and pull one out of their hat on the 5th of Jan at 5pm.

When we were back in Sep, we were all issued with a school laptop and we were required to set up all our classes with Microsoft Teams accounts. Any students who had no access to a device at home were asked to make an application to the school for a device.

A lot of us in my school have been assigning material and uploading classroom notes to Microsoft Teams since September in order to get students used to how it works, in the event of a school closure.

Students who have had a Covid-19-related absence in our school since September have been given access to live streams of some of their classes while they have been at home.

To be fair, I think that if we went to remote learning in Jan, my school would do quite well. We couldn't, however, force students to turn up, to pay attention, to sit down and do the work, to submit it and to supervise them from 8-4pm. I'd imagine that in some cases at least, this is the unworkable element of 'remote learning' that most people have the biggest issue with, which is a big enough part of the job in fairness.

SusanC10

Stateofyou wrote: »

We haven't but a family we know has. They said Tusla told them they weren't interested in chasing people with the year that's in it and as long as the parents have communicated with the school what their plan is they have no problem.

Our kids aren't going back straight away. That will put them over the 20 days. Tusla can try come for us that's all I'll say...

Thank you for this. We don't know anyone personally who has done it. We will be making a decision early next week but based on how things are going right now, it is very unlikely that we will be sending them back initially anyway.

Bananaleaf

Stateofyou wrote: »

We haven't but a family we know has. They said Tusla told them they weren't interested in chasing people with the year that's in it and as long as the parents have communicated with the school what their plan is they have no problem.

Our kids aren't going back straight away. That will put them over the 20 days. Tusla can try come for us that's all I'll say...

Honestly, in all the years I have been teaching and have had to report the 20 days to them, I've never known them to 'chase' anyone over it

Bananaleaf

khalessi wrote: »

This is what they would prefer as then Dept would not have to take any responsibility for any decisions they made.

This 100%. If I'm looking at you and you're looking at me, nobody is looking at Norma.

Stateofyou

appledrop wrote: »

100% expect us to be back on 6th Jan.

But government should expect that it will all start falling apart very quickly. I'd give it 2 weeks max before its a mess.

With cases as high as there are + numbers will be 2000+ by then, every school is going to have staff absence due to close contact or positive etc, students same so while whole school might not technically close expect whole classes or year groups to be sent home on rolling basis.

I just hope everyone is prepared for that.

The thing is a remote learning plan was always going to be needed for that very reason, and for the high risk students who haven't been able to attend who's parents had to just suddenly figure out homeschooling. People and students have been needing to quarantine or be off work/school as needs arise and some people/classes multiple times. This will be the case now more than ever before. If the DES really cared about our children's education a remote learning plan would have been developed.

Blondini

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves.

I still see schools opening as planned. There is a determination and stubbornness from above.

alroley

Schools will open as normal because our government only care about childcare and their obsession with keeping schools open no matter what the cost.

lulublue22

Bananaleaf wrote: »

When we were back in Sep, we were all issued with a school laptop and we were required to set up all our classes with Microsoft Teams accounts. Any students who had no access to a device at home were asked to make an application to the school for a device.

A lot of us in my school have been assigning material and uploading classroom notes to Microsoft Teams since September in order to get students used to how it works, in the event of a school closure.

Students who have had a Covid-19-related absence in our school since September have been given access to live streams of some of their classes while they have been at home.

To be fair, I think that if we went to remote learning in Jan, my school would do quite well. We couldn't, however, force students to turn up, to pay attention, to sit down and do the work, to submit it and to supervise them from 8-4pm. I'd imagine that in some cases at least, this is the unworkable element of 'remote learning' that most people have the biggest issue with, which is a big enough part of the job in fairness.

Most schools including my own have done the same - the issue with not having a centralised remote plan is the wildly divergent expectations of what constitutes remote learning. Secondary school may not be such an issue as you teach your timetabled class and move on. Primary is a different kettle of fish - some parents wanted the school day to be replicated over Zoom , some wanted an individual zoom slot for each child - bt 25 - 30 of them. Some wanted as little contact as possible ie send out the work Mon we will work through it in our own time. Some wanted phone calls no zoom. Some disappeared off the face if the earth. Some wanted work set daily and corrected that day - sone felt this was way too much pressure. At one stage I was receiving emails at 10pm at night.
Having no centralised plan with clear procedures and expectations allows this situation to fester and grow and gives people the space to feel hard done by when their expectations are not met. People find it inherently difficult to realise that it is virtually impossible to suit 25 - 30 different home situations particularly at primary level where remote learning needs high levels of parental involvement.

ETA this is not a pop at parents - trying to wfh and keep primary school children on task is no easy feat.

Stateofyou

alroley wrote: »

Schools will open as normal because our government only care about childcare and their obsession with keeping schools open no matter what the cost.

One day, we may really come to regret their laziness and ineptitude around failure to develop remote learning plans. If WHO's warnings are taken seriously, COVID will be the least of our virus worries one day. Saw this in the news yesterday: "Dr Mike Ryan: This pandemic may not be the big one." - Independent

WHO's Dr Mike Ryan has warned of the next pandemic being more severe than Covid-19, and called for preparation for the future.

"It may come as a shock to people," Dr Mike Ryan said at a media briefing for the World Health Organisation.

"This pandemic has been very severe. It's spread around the world extremely quickly and has affected every corner of the planet, but this is not necessarily the big one".

They'll have to pull their heads out of their arses sooner or later.


https://www.independent.ie/videos/dr-mike-ryan-this-pandemic-may-not-be-the-big-one-39913322.html?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=%7B%7Bad.name%7D%7D&utm_content=%7B%7Badset.name%7D%7D&utm_campaign=%7B%7Bcampaign.name%7D%7D&fbclid=IwAR3V9FU02dnv4Hn6vPgZ7aI_qV_iAG9i5YepcakBPR8GOfIw3-QCwz9uhjg

Teacher2020

No issue with schools opening next week.
I do think they need to take better actions if there is a confirmed case in the school however.
The whole classroom should be close contacts.
Siblings of close contacts should be instructed to stay at home until negative test is received.
Before Christmas, the fact that siblings of close contacts (that later tested positive) were sent to school caused it to spread through some schools.

Stateofyou

Teacher2020 wrote: »

No issue with schools opening next week.
I do think they need to take better actions if there is a confirmed case in the school however.
The whole classroom should be close contacts.
Siblings of close contacts should be instructed to stay at home until negative test is received.
Before Christmas, the fact that siblings of close contacts (that later tested positive) were sent to school caused it to spread through some schools.

But that isn't happening (yet) so I'd say you have a big issue with schools opening next week!

Bananaleaf

Stateofyou wrote: »

One day, we may really come to regret their laziness and ineptitude around failure to develop remote learning plans. If WHO's warnings are taken seriously, COVID will be the least of our virus worries one day. Saw this in the news yesterday: "Dr Mike Ryan: This pandemic may not be the big one." - Independent

WHO's Dr Mike Ryan has warned of the next pandemic being more severe than Covid-19, and called for preparation for the future.

"It may come as a shock to people," Dr Mike Ryan said at a media briefing for the World Health Organisation.

"This pandemic has been very severe. It's spread around the world extremely quickly and has affected every corner of the planet, but this is not necessarily the big one".

They'll have to pull their heads out of their arses sooner or later.


https://www.independent.ie/videos/dr-mike-ryan-this-pandemic-may-not-be-the-big-one-39913322.html?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=%7B%7Bad.name%7D%7D&utm_content=%7B%7Badset.name%7D%7D&utm_campaign=%7B%7Bcampaign.name%7D%7D&fbclid=IwAR3V9FU02dnv4Hn6vPgZ7aI_qV_iAG9i5YepcakBPR8GOfIw3-QCwz9uhjg

Yeah, I read this before bed last night and I really shouldn't have

jimmytwotimes 2013

lulublue22 wrote: »

TBH I think the ship has sailed on a remote learning plan. Unless the dep play a blinder and pull one out of their hat on the 5th of Jan at 5pm.

Don't think it's even possible to have a uniform national approach given rural broadband and numbers of siblings in each house lacking devices etc.

Even with the best will in the world online learning in Ireland wud be a varied experience at best.

Deeec

lulublue22 wrote: »

Most schools including my own have done the same - the issue with not having a centralised remote plan is the wildly divergent expectations of what constitutes remote learning. Secondary school may not be such an issue as you teach your timetabled class and move on. Primary is a different kettle of fish - some parents wanted the school day to be replicated over Zoom , some wanted an individual zoom slot for each child - bt 25 - 30 of them. Some wanted as little contact as possible ie send out the work Mon we will work through it in our own time. Some wanted phone calls no zoom. Some disappeared off the face if the earth. Some wanted work set daily and corrected that day - sone felt this was way too much pressure. At one stage I was receiving emails at 10pm at night.
Having no centralised plan with clear procedures and expectations allows this situation to fester and grow and gives people the space to feel hard done by when their expectations are not met. People find it inherently difficult to realise that it is virtually impossible to suit 25 - 30 different home situations particularly at primary level where remote learning needs high levels of parental involvement.

ETA this is not a pop at parents - trying to wfh and keep primary school children on task is no easy feat.

Completely agree with you. These are the problems that arise due to lack of approved plan. Everybody ends up having different views and expectations. If a standard remote learning plan was put in place - everybody then knows what is expected of them up.

khalessi

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Don't think it's even possible to have a uniform national approach given rural broadband and numbers of siblings in each house lacking devices etc.

Even with the best will in the world online learning in Ireland wud be a varied experience at best.

Daft question, but how much would ot cost to provide all primary and secondary schools student with a device? Conisdering how much money we put into other things liek greyhond racing, it could be worth it.

is_that_so

khalessi wrote: »

Daft question, but how much would ot cost to provide all primary and secondary schools student with a device? Conisdering how much money we put into other things liek greyhond racing, it could be worth it.

You'd be talking about well north of €100m, probably multiples of that.

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

You'd be talking about well north of €100m, probably multiples of that.

Many will have their own this day & age too. There should be a loaner system though. Surely the gov't can secure a good deal on tech for our schools. Legalise marijuana, tax it and use the money for the schools a la USA. Done. :pac:

jimmytwotimes 2013

khalessi wrote: »

Daft question, but how much would ot cost to provide all primary and secondary schools student with a device? Conisdering how much money we put into other things liek greyhond racing, it could be worth it.

Wudnt remove broadband issue tho.

I teach in a rural area. One week, during lockdown, an entire village from our catchment area was offline for 3 days. Other areas in locality might get 2/3 megs, uploading work can take students an age and video very unstable.

We lag behind on broadband infrastructure and at times like this it really comes back to bite

jrosen

Our old school had a loan system for lap tops. No one was actually allowed their own one untill high school age.

You signed it out at the start of the year and were required to leave it in over Xmas break and spring break for checks and updates. Worked really well.

I’d sooner see schools drop iPads tbh and have a system for laptops

Icyseanfitz

Nearly every child in post primary has a smartphone, a device that can be used for remote learning.