Schools closed until February? (part 3)

khalessi

ElJeffe wrote: »

I wonder if Ryan's allotment in Goatstown is less than 2klms from his house.

Oh that would be an essential journey, food;)

Bananaleaf

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

It would have to be week on week off for secondary school. 2+2 and a day in between would be a complete disaster timetabling. At least with week on week off the students in could follow the normal timetable for the week they are in

In my opinion we should have had a phased return in September like the original roadmap said we would.

We should have been in school Monday to Thursday and remote learning Friday.

If we were used to the remote teaching on a small scale from Sep, both teachers, parents and maybe even the government would be far more confident about going back to it now.

Stateofyou

And this gem was also in the article:

And reacting to the latest surge, the CMO said: “The incidence of COVID-19 is as high, if not higher now than it was in March. Every individual needs to act as if they are infectious.

“We need to rediscover the spirit of solidarity and community we saw in March and April so that we can all do our part in protecting older and vulnerable people.

Eh, March and April, when the schools were closed? FFS. :rolleyes:

fed_u

With current no's schools will need to remain closed. If we do a full on lockdown, curfew, fines for breaking etc for Jan, they could hopefully be back in Feb...
The fact the dept have no contingency plan is madness - surely as suggested every second week could work as work would need to be completed during the 'off' week as they'll be seeing teacher the next week

Bananaleaf

Leo said that creche-going children of non-essential workers are being asked to do "the same as what they did the last time around in March"

So you would have to imagine the same will happen with primary and secondary come 11th.

The language being used by politicians this time around is very different. No mention of "full return" and no guarantee. The party line this time around is "at this moment in time the intention is..."

khalessi

Stateofyou wrote: »

And this gem was also in the article:

And reacting to the latest surge, the CMO said: “The incidence of COVID-19 is as high, if not higher now than it was in March. Every individual needs to act as if they are infectious.

“We need to rediscover the spirit of solidarity and community we saw in March and April so that we can all do our part in protecting older and vulnerable people.

Eh, March and April, when the schools were closed? FFS. :rolleyes:

Correct schools were closed in March iirc.
THe government and NPHET have said all along the schools are driven by community. Time to put money where their mouth is. Schools should remain closed.

Maybe it is code for schools will be shut.

Wombatman

Schools are workplaces. Schoolwork for the students. Teaching for teachers. Management, maintenance and administration for others.

Are they essential workplaces? This is debatable. I would be arguing no for the most part.

I don't believe that schools are of less danger than other workplaces. If anything, because of the layout of the workplace, the behaviour and the number of attendees, they would be more dangerous.

I'd be less worried about the kids getting very sick from the virus and more concerned about them as a vector for spread, based on reports and research.

Most countries closed schools at the start of the pandemic for reasons that have not gone away. The health advice given then, to cause the schools to close, should be much the same now.

If we keep them open, and accept the risk, we should admit that and not mess around with statistics to somehow justify it.

We knew the risks of lifting restrictions at Christmas. We accepted those risks. We are dealing with the foreseeable aftermath now.

combat14

Stateofyou wrote: »

From a news article I just read moments ago:

Eamon Ryan has suggested that the 5km exercise limit could be reduced to just 2km if Covid-19 continues to spread across Ireland.

The Green Party leader also said that there were no plans to extend the closure of schools, and it is currently expected that schools will reopen on January 11.

He explained that a further reduction of the travel limit could be considered if the virus is not brought under control.



Don't close the dangerous mixing of the schools, just reduce the km's we're allowed exercise outdoors. You can't make this sh!te up.

just seen that..

Speaking on Newstalk's On the Record with Gavan Reilly, Minister Ryan told Séan Defoe that there is “always” more that can be done to suppress the virus, one of these being reducing “the level of contacts we have”.


and in the next breath he says lets open up all the schools .. you couldnt make it up

Stateofyou

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Leo said that creche-going children of non-essential workers are being asked to do "the same as what they did the last time around in March"

So you would have to imagine the same will happen with primary and secondary come 11th.

The language being used by politicians this time around is very different. No mention of "full return" and no guarantee. The party line this time around is "at this moment in time the intention is..."

Yes, I just read this RTE article where it says-

Mr Varadkar said it is the firm intention of the Government to open schools as planned on 11 January.

He said they have no advice to the contrary, but that a further assessment will be made closer to the time.

"Made closer to the time." So stress everyone out in the meantime and give no one any time to prepare for potential closures? Do they not have a science team to rely on for educated projections? It just seems like a clown show to me. They seem very disjointed and unable to make the difficult and forward thinking decisions that are needed now.

average_runner

Stateofyou wrote: »

Yes, I just read this RTE article where it says-

Mr Varadkar said it is the firm intention of the Government to open schools as planned on 11 January.

He said they have no advice to the contrary, but that a further assessment will be made closer to the time.

"Made closer to the time." So stress everyone out in the meantime and give no one any time to prepare for potential closures? Do they not have a science team to rely on for educated projections? It just seems like a clown show to me. They seem very disjointed and unable to make the difficult and forward thinking decisions that are needed now.

Its not that hard to have plan A and plan B if kids dont go back.
Should be used to it by now

Stateofyou

Wombatman wrote: »

Schools are workplaces. Schoolwork for the students. Teaching for teachers. Management, maintenance and administration for others.

Are they essential workplaces? This is debatable. I would be arguing no for the most part.

I don't believe that schools are of less danger than other workplaces. If anything, because of the layout of the workplace, the behaviour and the number of attendees, they would be more dangerous.

I'd be less worried about the kids getting very sick from the virus and more concerned about them as a vector for spread, based on reports and research.

Most countries closed schools at the start of the pandemic for reasons that have not gone away. The health advice given then, to cause the schools to close, should be much the same now.

If we keep them open, and accept the risk, we should admit that and not mess around with statistics to somehow justify it.

We knew the risks of lifting restrictions at Christmas. We accepted those risks. We are dealing with the foreseeable aftermath now.

In my opinion they want to avoid saying point blank two truths.
1. Schools need to be open at ALL times to keep economy going/pay less pup payments.
2. We are too unimaginative, not forward-thinking, and hard-work adverse to rollout a workable hybrid remote learning system.

and

3. We failed to properly fund health care for decades and it is a failed system

khalessi

When the schools reopened in September we had handwashing pods and bubble to fight off this nasty virus. Most teachers will tell you pods and bubbles is political speak for groups and classes but it sounded fancy.

Close contacts were not identified and deliberately so according to Public Health for babysittiing reasons. T

The numbers of school transmission given by department did not match what teachers saw on the floor.

WE asked for help and were told we whinge. Unions said we would not reopen after midterm unless extra measures implemented. Measures promised and I for one have seen no difference between before midterm and now.

They will say extra measures will be implemented again but there wont be.

The government do not care for kids. They care about a workforce. Other countries have found schools spread this but not ours. Instead we have the constant government mantra, schools are safe schools are safe.

Even Micheal Martin could not manage to say it properly whenspeaking to the country, schools are safe...... for our children, he paused as he knows they are not safe for adults who work there and that was before the London Strain was known about.

Bananaleaf

After listening to Varadkar this morning, I would bet money that this is the current situation in govt:

The schools are definitely going to open on 11th. But at this exact moment in time, they are going to only be open for the children of essential frontline workers.

They will buy themselves time, right up to 8th Jan and see what way the numbers are going before announcing this. If numbers look good on 8th it's a full return, if they don't it's for children of essential workers only and the rest is remote teaching with staff on site.

khalessi

Bananaleaf wrote: »

After listening to Varadkar this morning, I would bet money that this is the current situation in govt:

The schools are definitely going to open on 11th. But at this exact moment in time, they are going to only be open for the children of essential frontline workers.

They will buy themselves time, right up to 8th Jan and see what way the numbers are going before announcing this. If numbers look good on 8th it's a full return, if they don't it's for children of essential workers only and the rest is remote teaching with staff on site.

So will that be f2f and online teaching combined do you reckon?

average_runner

khalessi wrote: »

When the schools reopened in September we had handwashing pods and bubble to fight off this nasty virus. Most teachers will tell you pods and bubbles is political speak for groups and classes but it sounded fancy.

Close contacts were not identified and deliberately so according to Public Health for babysittiing reasons. T

The numbers of school transmission given by department did not match what teachers saw on the floor.

WE asked for help and were told we whinge. Unions said we would not reopen after midterm unless extra measures implemented. Measures promised and I for one have seen no difference between before midterm and now.

They will say extra measures will be implemented again but there wont be.

The government do not care for kids. They care about a workforce. Other countries have found schools spread this but not ours. Instead we have the constant government mantra, schools are safe schools are safe.

Even Micheal Martin could not manage to say it properly whenspeaking to the country, schools are safe...... for our children, he paused as he knows they are not safe for adults who work there and that was before the London Strain was known about.

The practices they have for 2nd class in our kids school is working very well. Spray the kids hand on entrance and exit from the class. Three small windows open, no school bags or homework. Lunch bags into that particular pod box.

4th class follows same pattern. They get homework but homework books stay at home and we send a screenshot via the app every evening.

PE most days in the yard, focusing more on athletics lately.

6 cases out of 600 Kidd 8n an area that had a high covid rate

combat14

khalessi wrote: »

So will that be f2f and online teaching combined do you reckon?

f2f and online at same time doesnt work...

average_runner

combat14 wrote: »

f2f and online at same time doesnt work...

Depends on the class and how the teacher handles it. There is effective ways and teachers know how the pupils thinks

Bananaleaf

khalessi wrote: »

So will that be f2f and online teaching combined do you reckon?

combat14 wrote: »

f2f and online at same time doesnt work...

I think it will mean that. And I think that it would work if the 'essential workers' bit is strictly adhered to.

We would have to see it in action to know for sure and you would have to know what is going to constitute 'essential' (this will be the biggest issue), but I'm imagining that this should result in very few students in class, so it would be effectively remote teaching and learning with a little bit of supervision at the same time.

Like everything else that teachers have agreed to though, what I could see happening here is that we are initially told we would have the children of hospital, teaching and supermarket staff only, but then will come the claims of 'I'm essential, I'm essential' from the world and its mother and before we know it we are trying to do both. But also like everything teachers agree to, the terms will be thrown at us last minute and we won't even have time to properly discuss it with unions before going back.

khalessi

average_runner wrote: »

The practices they have for 2nd class in our kids school is working very well. Spray the kids hand on entrance and exit from the class. Three small windows open, no school bags or homework. Lunch bags into that particular pod box.

4th class follows same pattern. They get homework but homework books stay at home and we send a screenshot via the app every evening.

PE most days in the yard, focusing more on athletics lately.

6 cases out of 600 Kidd 8n an area that had a high covid rate

I am sure it is great. We had same system and kids got into in it, runs like clockwork. I know about 5 cases in the school, because of the kids telling me on return, not from principal or their teachers who I asked straight out as 4 of the kids I take daily.

Throughout the school there were children missing sick for 2 weeks then returned to school, all this in a community that has had high cases for months, would make you wonder. Teachers were given sick notes with nothing specific, the children might mention they had covid or family member or both but nothing official was said to the school.

Now with no tracking or tracing anywhere the community is becoming like schools in term 1.

Sammy2012

Okay so if its a case of all staff onsite here is the problem with my school. I have kids, where will they go? Our broadband in school is crap. Its much better in my home. Its freezing in my school when the kids are not around, so why couldn't I work from home instead of sitting in the cold all day?

There is no one size fits all solution. Every teacher will have their own issues to deal with. My husband is an essential worker and will be back to work in the morning. However he works out of a 3 floor office and there will himself and one other staff member there. We are in our mid 30s and have seen noone outside our immediate families on months. Obviously I'm high risk as are my kids but the virus levels were very low on the area I work on and we've thankfully had no covid cases in my school since we went back in September.

Now however is a different story. I know a lot of people in my own area who have it and I'm sure there is some where I teach. The test and trace system needs to be sorted before schools can reopen safely. If they do this most teachers will have no problem going back to work.

JP100

It's okay folks, we're all going to be safe now as Eamon Ryan is proposing to reduce the 5k exercise limit down to 2k! Some lad out walking 5k from his home instead of the 2k is the real danger here and not pilling 30 kids into a classroom for 6 hours a day! Who'd have thunk it?!

Bananaleaf

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Okay so if its a case of all staff onsite here is the problem with my school. I have kids, where will they go? Our broadband in school is crap. Its much better in my home. Its freezing in my school when the kids are not around, so why couldn't I work from home instead of sitting in the cold all day?

There is no one size fits all solution. Every teacher will have their own issues to deal with. My husband is an essential worker and will be back to work in the morning. However he works out of a 3 floor office and there will himself and one other staff member there. We are in our mid 30s and have seen noone outside our immediate families on months. Obviously I'm high risk as are my kids but the virus levels were very low on the area I work on and we've thankfully had no covid cases in my school since we went back in September.

Now however is a different story. I know a lot of people in my own area who have it and I'm sure there is some where I teach. The test and trace system needs to be sorted before schools can reopen safely. If they do this most teachers will have no problem going back to work.

Your kids are the children of essential workers. So they will be in creche or school

Edited to add that our school is freezing too and I was only thinking this morning that if the Covid doesnt get me when I go back, the hypothermia surely will!

Sammy2012

JP100 wrote: »

It's okay folks, we're all going to be safe now as Eamon Ryan is proposing to reduce the 5k exercise limit down to 2k! Some lad out walking 5k from his home instead of the 2k is the real danger here and not pilling 30 kids into a classroom for 6 hours a day! Who'd have thunk it?!

I could walk 10k from my house and see nobody 5 days out of 7!! People are not listening to that crap anymore.

Sammy2012

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Your kids are the children of essential workers. So they will be in creche or school

Sorry that should have said in relation to half in half out. I want to go to work. I found the online stuff so stressful. My kids didn't really partake in it as neither of us had time but I didn't mind that as we did things at home ourselves. Just fix the test and trace and let us back to school.

average_runner

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Okay so if its a case of all staff onsite here is the problem with my school. I have kids, where will they go? Our broadband in school is crap. Its much better in my home. Its freezing in my school when the kids are not around, so why couldn't I work from home instead of sitting in the cold all day?

There is no one size fits all solution. Every teacher will have their own issues to deal with. My husband is an essential worker and will be back to work in the morning. However he works out of a 3 floor office and there will himself and one other staff member there. We are in our mid 30s and have seen noone outside our immediate families on months. Obviously I'm high risk as are my kids but the virus levels were very low on the area I work on and we've thankfully had no covid cases in my school since we went back in September.

Now however is a different story. I know a lot of people in my own area who have it and I'm sure there is some where I teach. The test and trace system needs to be sorted before schools can reopen safely. If they do this most teachers will have no problem going back to work.

How do you expect kids at home to learn if both parents working from home?


Why do you need to be in the school if remote learning? I know some prefer it but not all teachers.

Basically we all have to adjust our jobs.

average_runner

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I could walk 10k from my house and see nobody 5 days out of 7!! People are not listening to that crap anymore.

It's a 5k radius. My local park is too packed on a at morning, so will head out further.

Bananaleaf

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Sorry that should have said in relation to half in half out. I want to go to work. I found the online stuff so stressful. My kids didn't really partake in it as neither of us had time but I didn't mind that as we did things at home ourselves. Just fix the test and trace and let us back to school.

I don't think half in and half out will work for that exact reason. It will be all in or all out and I'd say you will be either or depending on how essential your job is.

But that will be absolute key. It will need to be very clear who is or isn't on that list.

If the numbers coming into school are low enough and IT allows, you could nearly even have the on-site learners coming in with their own laptops and sitting in the room with you but tuning in remotely too. Am thinking of a scenario where you might have 3 in front of you and 27 online. Am also a secondary teacher fwiw

Sammy2012

average_runner wrote: »

How do you expect kids at home to learn if both parents working from home?


Why do you need to be in the school if remote learning? I know some prefer it but not all teachers.

Basically we all have to adjust our jobs.

Based off last time I don't expect kids to learn. I had 28kids on the 12th of March. After that I never heard from around 12 of them again. Some kids did engage daily but they didn't retain the information. I had half my class again this year as I work in a rural school and have the same classes as last year so one class moved on to another teacher and one class stayed with me. I spent the month of September going over the important thing they missed from March to June as they didn't have a good knowledge base. Most of the kids in this class had engaged daily up until the beginning of June.

I have done courses on how to improve my teaching style for online learning but I would much rather be in the classroom. I have enjoyed being back and so have the kids and I would be in favour of closures now and make up for time during the year or extend the year to the first week in July.

JP100

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I could walk 10k from my house and see nobody 5 days out of 7!! People are not listening to that crap anymore.

It all depends, I suppose, I was stopped previously by a guard when out cycling in an urban area and asked where I was going and coming from. I can only assume I was asked these questions at the time because of the 5k rule.

TheValeyard

average_runner wrote: »

How do you expect kids at home to learn if both parents working from home?


Why do you need to be in the school if remote learning? I know some prefer it but not all teachers.

Basically we all have to adjust our jobs.

Gets even more complex,
Say management demand staff teach from building, yet creche or primary schools are closed. You literally cannot leave kids unsupervised. So, emergency parental leave?

We need a clear plan.