Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

Also, just to side note the US has a far superior education system than us.

Have you got a source for that? What do you base "superior education system" on?

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think only posting evidence that aligns with one's own opinion, and ignoring any evidence contrary to that is pretty ignorant.

You should consider stopping then.:pac::pac:

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

You should consider stopping then.:pac::pac:

Can you point out where I've done that? No paraphrasing please, full posts.

khalessi

Did any of the teachers get a chance to read the latest propaganda letter from Dept Of Ed?

Mainly a rehash of what they are trying to sell in media about schools being open but also accompanied with last weeks policy on remote learning.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can you point out where I've done that? No paraphrasing please, full posts.

Nah couldnt be arsed to many to choose from in previous threads. Or maybe I was being funny. lighten up for God's sake.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Take a joke

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

Nah couldnt be arsed to many to choose from in previous threads. Or maybe I was being funny. lighten up for God's sake.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Take a joke

I thought if you were happy to make an accusation you might be happy to back it up, but I believe smiley faces are always a winner at shutting down any discourse so by all means, carry on.

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

Have you got a source for that? What do you base "superior education system" on?

Personal experience and the fact I've got family and friends there with their kids in the system too. My family and I lived in the US for a year for work. Comparing the school my kids were in, and my family/friends to my own experience in Ireland and now with my kids well my eyes have been opened.

The schools I know of there in the US have tech in every classroom, playgrounds in every primary school, large libraries and with research and study sections. My kids school also had language room with individual cubicles stocked with headphones to listen to and record whichever language was being studied. Where are we all at learning and speaking our own language?? Lol. Funny you mention maths- my kids were far ahead in maths, science and reading when we returned home. They have slipped back in gear here now after two years of repeating things they already knew. Another thing we don't have? Advanced classes. Students there are catered for when they have a higher ability in a subject and moved forward at a quicker pace (and also cater for lower abilities too). They had quite a few field trips, and opportunities for science fairs at the local, state and even national level. The schools have additional classes or opportunities such as the school yearbook, the school news (actually was filmed by the kids themselves and streamed into classrooms every morning), ceramics, crafts, chess, coding, etc and after school programs/homework clubs. Their public school system is truly 'free.' There are no uniforms to buy, books are all provided for by the school on a rental basis, there is no bus fee, and there is no "voluntary" contribution. The schools also have canteens (they call cafeteria's) offering hot breakfast and lunch daily and have nutrition programs too. These are just some of the things we experienced and know about. Happy enough with that?

meeeeh

Ah sure why do OECD bother with PISA when they could just ask you.

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

Personal experience and the fact I've got family and friends there with their kids in the system too. My family and I lived in the US for a year for work. Comparing the school my kids were in, and my family/friends to my own experience in Ireland and now with my kids well my eyes have been opened.

The schools I know of there in the US have tech in every classroom, playgrounds in every primary school, large libraries and with research and study sections. My kids school also had language room with individual cubicles stocked with headphones to listen to and record whichever language was being studied. Where are we all at learning and speaking our own language?? Lol. Funny you mention maths- my kids were far ahead in maths, science and reading when we returned home. They have slipped back in gear here now after two years of repeating things they already knew. Another thing we don't have? Advanced classes. Students there are catered for when they have a higher ability in a subject and moved forward at a quicker pace (and also cater for lower abilities too). They had quite a few field trips, and opportunities for science fairs at the local, state and even national level. The schools have additional classes or opportunities such as the school yearbook, the school news (actually was filmed by the kids themselves and streamed into classrooms every morning), ceramics, crafts, and after school programs/homework clubs. Their public school system is truly 'free.' There are no uniforms to buy, books are all provided for by the school on a rental basis, there is no bus fee, and there is no "voluntary" contribution. The schools also have canteens (they call cafeteria's) offering hot breakfast and lunch daily and have nutrition programs too. These are just some of the things we experienced and know about. Happy enough with that?

I didn't mention Maths, you've mixed me up with another poster.

Outcomes in education in the US are highly dependent on the school district. If a family has the means to move to the district where outcomes are best, then they will do that- meaning those of higher SES will invariably live in a better school district.

I'm glad that you and your family had the experience that you did, it sounds wonderful. But it's not reflected in the rest of the US and it's not reflected in the OECD numbers either.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I thought if you were happy to make an accusation you might be happy to back it up, but I believe smiley faces are always a winner at shutting down any discourse so by all means, carry on.

It was a joke, relax, hence the laughy faces, sorry if you dont understand nuances. Conversation can and does include humour. Apologies if you need to have your hackles up all the time.

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

I didn't mention Maths, you've mixed me up with another poster.

Outcomes in education in the US are highly dependent on the school district. If a family has the means to move to the district where outcomes are best, then they will do that- meaning those of higher SES will invariably live in a better school district.

I'm glad that you and your family had the experience that you did, it sounds wonderful. But it's not reflected in the rest of the US and it's not reflected in the OECD numbers either.

We are way off topic now, but have you got a link for that for my own interest.

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

We are way off topic now, but have you got a link for that for my own interest.

OECD website.

meeeeh

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

This is the lazy version.

JimmyVik

Is this a thread about schools or just one where people gang up on teachers.
Little to be doing.

Sonny678

A school in Westmeath 6 teacher have the coronavirus and over 30 students and that number will increase with results coming back. Schools are shutting in the north yet a couple of miles over the border in Louth Donegal Cavan and Monaghan they are wide open. That makes no sense whatsoever on any level.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

This is the lazy version.

Did they inject brain stem cells in Massachusetts water? :pac:

Icyseanfitz

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/schools-will-not-close-despite-northern-ireland-s-two-week-shutdown-foley-1.4380777?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I love how the one thing this government answer with unwavering certainty in these unprecedented and deteriorating times is that "schools open"

Smacruairi

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/schools-will-not-close-despite-northern-ireland-s-two-week-shutdown-foley-1.4380777?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I love how the one thing this government answer with unwavering certainty in these unprecedented and deteriorating times is that "schools open"

You know what, I think the Asti have accidentally gotten it right with the timing. I was highly dubious about the original plan to ballot us, but by the time the votes will be announced, schools in NI are closed, if cases keep going as they are going we will be past April numbers, we have no contries left on a green list, and the number of cases in schools will be so large that they cant bury it anymore.

Icyseanfitz

Smacruairi wrote: »

You know what, I think the Asti have accidentally gotten it right with the timing. I was highly dubious about the original plan to ballot us, but by the time the votes will be announced, schools in NI are closed, if cases keep going as they are going we will be past April numbers, we have no contries left on a green list, and the number of cases in schools will be so large that they cant bury it anymore.

I think our only hope for safer working conditions (if thats even option after this head in the sand approach at this bloody stage) is our Union's. Don't think politicians will touch education as they are too afraid of the general public, who (at least if boards and social media are anything to go by) couldn't care less about the safety of educators or just simply can't imagine schools being dangerous.

jrosen

irishblessing wrote: »

Also, just to side note the US has a far superior education system than us.

Thats not exactly true. The state and the zip code within those states will determine the quality of education.

I dont think the US should be held up as any sort of system to aspire to.

irishblessing

jrosen wrote: »

irishblessing wrote: »

Also, just to side note the US has a far superior education system than us.

Thats not exactly true. The state and the zip code within those states will determine the quality of education.

I dont think the US should be held up as any sort of system to aspire to.

Our schools vary by location too, not all are in great shape with great resources and building. The US has very good schools and uni's actually; there are good/bad aspects to any system anywhere. Except maybe Norway. :pac:

combat14

2300+ cases announced on island today so yep.. will be interesting to hear what NPHET recommend tomorrow...

Sonny678

9 teachers in longford school have the coronavirus, 6 teachers in Westmeath school have the coronavirus. 5 teachers in a kildare school have the coronavirus. And in a neighbouring kildare town a school has 2 teachers with the coronavirus. Imagine whats it like in other parts of the country. Again the media r ignoring whats going on in schools.

lulublue22

irishblessing wrote: »

jrosen wrote: »

Our schools vary by location too, not all are in great shape with great resources and building. The US has very good schools and uni's actually; there are good/bad aspects to any system anywhere. Except maybe Norway. :pac:

The states education system is very polarised and in my opinion perpetuates educational inequality and poverty in certain sections of society. Funding is allocated based on income tax from the school district- the higher income districts generate more tax and hence more funding for schools. Relatives live in a relatively wealthy area - they have state of the art school facilities - running track , pool ,library , lots of tec etc. I was very envious - however there is no way I would want such a two tier system in Ireland . It annoys me no end that the dep subsidises wages in private schools here as is without creating further socio- economic divides by aping the US system.
I have a lot to say about the Irish system in terms of resources and in the area of special needs but in my opinion the underlying ethos is by far superior to that of the states.

BonsaiKitten

irishblessing wrote: »

Also, just to side note the US has a far superior education system than us. And before you bleat on about the ignorance we've got plenty of our own too.

I have one word for this: DonorsChoose. It's a site set up for teachers to make wishlists and ask for funding. Very well known in US education and widely used.

As we're telling anecdotes, I had an American student teacher for a while. When she went back home and started teaching (in a poor area), she was expected to fully kit out her classroom. You should have seen her DonorsChoose list. She was looking for things like tables for children to sit at and reading books to start a class library. Absolute basics like.

So while I'm glad you had a good experience in what was presumably a well off area, I wouldn't class any place where teachers have to beg for materials online as a superior education system.

irishblessing

lulublue22 wrote: »

irishblessing wrote: »

The states education system is very polarised and in my opinion perpetuates educational inequality and poverty in certain sections of society. Funding is allocated based on income tax from the school district- the higher income districts generate more tax and hence more funding for schools. Relatives live in a relatively wealthy area - they have state of the art school facilities - running track , pool ,library , lots of tec etc. I was very envious - however there is no way I would want such a two tier system in Ireland . It annoys me no end that the dep subsidises wages in private schools here as is without creating further socio- economic divides by aping the US system.
I have a lot to say about the Irish system in terms of resources and in the area of special needs but in my opinion the underlying ethos is by far superior to that of the states.

You're not educating me on anything new here. :rolleyes: What's your experience with the special needs in the states (pm if you like)?

So you'd rather aspire to the poorly run and funding catholic school system that relies heavily on parents contributions and fundraising? Let's table this discussion anyway, it's nowhere near the topic of the thread.

irishblessing

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I have one word for this: DonorsChoose. It's a site set up for teachers to make wishlists and ask for funding. Very well known in US education and widely used.

As we're telling anecdotes, I had an American student teacher for a while. When she went back home and started teaching (in a poor area), she was expected to fully kit out her classroom. You should have seen her DonorsChoose list. She was looking for things like tables for children to sit at and reading books to start a class library. Absolute basics like.

So while I'm glad you had a good experience in what was presumably a well off area, I wouldn't class any place where teachers have to beg for materials online as a superior education system.

This will be the last I'll comment on this as I feel it's sidetracking the thread, but happy to carry on pm if you want.

I know that teachers often have to kit out their classrooms at least in part (decorations and some books, resources only). Providing tables would be very unusual-the schools supply those. I know because my kids school actually replaced all the desks and tables/chairs the year we started. One of my friend's is actually a K teacher in the US and told us as such regarding the decorations, some fun books as extra to supplement, etc but in her district she didn't have to do as much as some. I also have teacher friends here and I've heard the same complaint so seems like two sides of the same coin if you ask me. My kids current school has very old pm readers and not enough to go round and no money for new ones, so there's that happening here. And no library to speak of. Just a couple shelfs. Edited to add: and my kids tell me (aka complain) about the playground equipment all being broken. Of course no playground to speak of either.

smck321

Theres a lot of people on here seem determined that schools are the problem here. RIP social mobility I guess.

Will the same people opposed to schools reopening be the first ones complaining about the social side effects later I wonder.

tom1ie

smck321 wrote: »

Theres a lot of people on here seem determined that schools are the problem here. RIP social mobility I guess.

Will the same people opposed to schools reopening be the first ones complaining about the social side effects later I wonder.

Genuine question:
So where is the community transfer occurring if it’s not in schools?

Btw last thing I want is schools closed.

BonsaiKitten

irishblessing wrote: »

This will be the last I'll comment on this as I feel it's sidetracking the thread, but happy to carry on pm if you want.

I know that teachers often have to kit out their classrooms at least in part (decorations and some books, resources only). Providing tables would be very unusual-the schools supply those. I know because my kids school actually replaced all the desks and tables/chairs the year we started. One of my friend's is actually a K teacher in the US and told us as such regarding the decorations, some fun books as extra to supplement, etc but in her district she didn't have to do as much as some. I also have teacher friends here and I've heard the same complaint so seems like two sides of the same coin if you ask me. My kids current school has very old pm readers and not enough to go round and no money for new ones, so there's that happening here. And no library to speak of. Just a couple shelfs.

That's because your kids school was reasonably well off, mate. That's not the case for all US schools and it's an absolute sin that the districts are so unequal. Land of hope and glory eh...

I'm quite happy to stop there but it's very clear that the USA doesn't have one of the better educational systems. That's all people are telling you. Not claiming that Ireland is amazing but Christ, I wouldn't bring their system here if you paid me.