Schools closed until February? (part 3)

irishblessing

combat14 wrote: »

2300+ cases announced on island today so yep.. will be interesting to hear what NPHET recommend tomorrow...

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Boggles

Can we all not just all agree that it might be the schools?

BonsaiKitten

Question for the primary teachers on here: what's the story with dressing up for Halloween in your schools?

A friend of mine said that the principal isn't allowing it in their school due to Coronavirus restrictions. We are dressing up at mine. I can't see why we shouldn't dress up this year but am just curious about whether other schools have said no to it.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Question for the primary teachers on here: what's the story with dressing up for Halloween in your schools?

A friend of mine said that the principal isn't allowing it in their school due to Coronavirus restrictions. We are dressing up at mine. I can't see why we shouldn't dress up this year but am just curious about whether other schools have said no to it.

Dressing up in our school. Parents asked to ensure that no swords, wands and the likes are sent in.

khalessi

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Question for the primary teachers on here: what's the story with dressing up for Halloween in your schools?

A friend of mine said that the principal isn't allowing it in their school due to Coronavirus restrictions. We are dressing up at mine. I can't see why we shouldn't dress up this year but am just curious about whether other schools have said no to it.

Dressing up too in our school. My costume in the post yayyy, glad we are as the schools are no fun at the moment all hand washing and covid reminding. I hope this will give the kids some craic.

smck321

tom1ie wrote: »

Genuine question:
So where is the community transfer occurring if it’s not in schools?

Btw last thing I want is schools closed.

People are still visiting each others houses, my neighbours had a birthday party last week, across the street had a few friends over the same weekend. People stand outside shops talking.

Not everyone obeys the rules perfectly and that's how the virus spreads.

Icyseanfitz

smck321 wrote: »

People are still visiting each others houses, my neighbours had a birthday party last week, across the street had a few friends over the same weekend. People stand outside shops talking.

Not everyone obeys the rules perfectly and that's how the virus spreads.

Must be house parties in every household in the country on a daily basis at this stage :pac:

The_Brood

Day after day after day the government claims the schools are not spreading the virus and must remain open. This is dumber than flat earth theories, this is dumber than anything I can imagine. It contradicts every single last piece of evidence scientists have presented about the virus. It can spread through children as easily as anyone else. And schools are right now by far the most conductive place for the virus to spread.

khalessi

Meant to ask what are you on about?

Lillyfae wrote: »

There is a lack of acceptance that a lot of your colleagues don't support your views and are just rolling up their sleeves and getting on with it- this is hard work and everyone has a responsibility to do what they're supposed to be doing, in work and their personal lives. I don't dispute that the Department of Education have fallen well short of the mark but there are plenty who would ignore any of the guidelines anyway- like your 2 colleagues who carpool, are they still doing that btw?

What are my views exactly that are not supported? Are you holding me responsible for my colleagues? Why?


Boards of Management and principals have to do the best they can within the context of their school environment- it would be impossible for the Department of Education to go into every single school to fix every issue, that's why someone is put in charge in the first place. If you're not happy with how things are being done in your school then start asking the principal questions- I would be interested in the response.


Did I state I was not happy with my school? I think you are mistaking me for another poster. I actually stated recently I think the main reason my school has done so well and only had one case is ventilation, we keep windows open all day.


I think only posting evidence that aligns with one's own opinion, and ignoring any evidence contrary to that is pretty ignorant.

Interesting comment almost like an accusation. I generally post what I think is pertinent information regardless of what side it is for. Your post reads almost like you have an axe to grind but I'm sure that's not be true as you are a calm individual who would never dream of having a go at someone.

rob316

The_Brood wrote: »

Day after day after day the government claims the schools are not spreading the virus and must remain open. This is dumber than flat earth theories, this is dumber than anything I can imagine. It contradicts every single last piece of evidence scientists have presented about the virus. It can spread through children as easily as anyone else. And schools are right now by far the most conductive place for the virus to spread.

We'll find out soon when they are closed for 3 weeks

smck321

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Must be house parties in every household in the country on a daily basis at this stage :pac:

Pretty much yes. It's not just loud house parties that do it, dinner at friends, a quiet night in all do it.

Icyseanfitz

smck321 wrote: »

Pretty much yes. It's not just loud house parties that do it, dinner at friends, a quiet night in all do it.

The majority of people are being somewhat sensible not ****ing extremely extroverted

lulublue22

irishblessing wrote: »

lulublue22 wrote: »

You're not educating me on anything new here. :rolleyes: What's your experience with the special needs in the states (pm if you like)?

So you'd rather aspire to the poorly run and funding catholic school system that relies heavily on parents contributions and fundraising? Let's table this discussion anyway, it's nowhere near the topic of the thread.

Yes - as it is by far in my opinion superior to a system that perpetuates educational inequality and poverty. I believe that every child regardless of socio- economic background is entitled to the best education possible. I don’t believe that a section of society are entitled to high levels of education at the expense of those less fortunate. Re special needs my nephew seems to have to travel quite a distance to have his needs met - though again the facilities seem to be extremely good. He has quite complex special needs my niece is dyslexic and her supports are quite similar to here. Though I believe from my inlaws that it varies from state to state.

smck321

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

The majority of people are being somewhere sensible not ****ing extremely extroverted

After working with the public for a decade it's not extroversion thats the issue. The the fact that the public are generally quite stupid and thing the rules don't apply to them.

niamh247

smck321 wrote: »

People are still visiting each others houses, my neighbours had a birthday party last week, across the street had a few friends over the same weekend. People stand outside shops talking.

Not everyone obeys the rules perfectly and that's how the virus spreads.

That's exactly what govt wants you to believe. Do you understand that real reason to keep schools open is allow parents to go to work? The low transmission concept is made to support the real goal.

Mrsmum

smck321 wrote: »

Pretty much yes. It's not just loud house parties that do it, dinner at friends, a quiet night in all do it.

Absolutely. I know a little girl who was three last week. Her whole extended family ie grandparents from both sides and an aunt from both sides with their children gathered for the party. Not a wild party with alcohol flowing but nevertheless a tea party that should not be happening. In that party were four adults over at least 65 years of age, a nurse and children from three different schools and probably a few different childcare facilities to boot. All so nice, cosy and relaxed together that social distance goes out the window. People think shure it's only ourselves but these are the unnecessary get togethers that are causing a big Covid problem.

smck321

niamh247 wrote: »

That's exactly what govt wants you to believe. Do you understand that real reason to keep schools open is allow parents to go to work? The low transmission concept is made to support the real goal.

And the side effect of that, allowing socialisation for kids and education improving social mobility.

MelbourneMan

tom1ie wrote: »

Genuine question:
So where is the community transfer occurring if it’s not in schools?

I hope the following elucidates :

Community transfer occurs wherever there is interraction of people. Whether that is in a school, shop, office, factory, public house, or whatever is rather incidental to determining the action to take. In each case, the importance and societal and economic impact put on each of these elements is the predominant influence on the decision making process guiding corrective action.

It is curious that the general population seems fixated on the locus of transmission. It is perhaps motivated and indicative of conscious or unconsious bias in the discussion by interested parties in preserving continuity in their own sector rather than a true analysis. But it is largely an irrelevant discussion, and misses the point.

In short, the where is, not quite, but almost by the way, in the determining of the restrictions to apply.

smck321

The_Brood wrote: »

Day after day after day the government claims the schools are not spreading the virus and must remain open. This is dumber than flat earth theories, this is dumber than anything I can imagine. It contradicts every single last piece of evidence scientists have presented about the virus. It can spread through children as easily as anyone else. And schools are right now by far the most conductive place for the virus to spread.

Do you evidence to support your claim? I'm not trying to be critical here but the benefit of schools far outweighs pubs, restaurants and retail. So you'd need pretty strong evidence of massive viral spread to overrule it.

Icyseanfitz

smck321 wrote: »

Do you evidence to support your claim? I'm not trying to be critical here but the benefit of schools far outweighs pubs, restaurants and retail. So you'd need pretty strong evidence of massive viral spread to overrule it.

You will never get evidence with the way cases are being contact traced, schools are effectively the community, how can you seperate the two when a lot of 4-24 year olds are asymptomatic.

thomas 123

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

You will never get evidence with the way cases are being contact traced, schools are effectively the community, how can you seperate the two when a lot of 4-24 year olds are asymptomatic.

And how many will actually come forward and go for tests?

And how many students and schools being advised no further action is required when they are indeed close contacts of confirmed cases?

The data will never be correct for those reasons.

My brothers teacher was confirmed with Covid, she told her class, they did not know until she was out and told them all as she was giving the class through software In my opinion the HSE is bang out of line on this one and playing a dangerous game.

JP100

smck321 wrote: »

And the side effect of that, allowing socialisation for kids and education improving social mobility.

Aye, kids crammed into small classrooms 6+ hours a day and playdates aplenty and lots of groups of kids marauding estates since the schools went back. Mama from heaven for the virus to spread but good for the oul socialisation nonetheless!

Sammy2012

Can I bring my extended family and friends to my workplace (school) and hang out with them there??!? I cant visit anyone now but can have 25 families in my classroom every day?!

smck321

JP100 wrote: »

Aye, kids crammed into small classrooms 6+ hours a day and playdates aplenty and lots of groups of kids marauding estates since the schools went back. Mama from heaven for the virus to spread but good for the oul socialisation nonetheless!

Where I am the kids were never brought in of the streets. They were allowed to play outside the whole summer. Demonising schools over looks the rest of society where these things have happened the entire time.

And those 6 hours per day is the only education or socialisation some kids get. It would take a lot to over rule that.

MelbourneMan

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Can I bring my extended family and friends to my workplace (school) and hang out with them there??!? I cant visit anyone now but can have 25 families in my classroom every day?!

That would clearly be counterproductive and against suppression of the virus.

There is a general tendency to over simply virus spread into having an impact/not having an impact, or safe/unsafe, or this is safer than that therefore we should not be be prevented from doing this. etc.
But it cannot be looked at in this black and white manner.

The chain of transmission has many many links, and all contribute to the overall spread and R0. Individual factors have greater or lesser contributions, and also have different levels of importance to society in general. It is never true to say schools are or are not having an impact. Wherever people interface, there is an impact.

The task of the politicians is to weigh up the sum of all factors contributing to spread, and weigh up the the impact on society, health, and the economy of curtailing these activities to varying degrees, and balancing those two elements with the capability of the health service to handle the caseload. The data and advice on the virus element is provided to them by NPHET.

The political decision has been taken that places schooling of children as a higher priority activity than visiting other households. I think it stands to reason.

mvl

thomas 123 wrote: »

And how many will actually come forward and go for tests?

And how many students and schools being advised no further action is required when they are indeed close contacts of confirmed cases?

The data will never be correct for those reasons.

My brothers teacher was confirmed with Covid, she told her class, they did not know until she was out and told them all as she was giving the class through software In my opinion the HSE is bang out of line on this one and playing a dangerous game.

And I think the unions/journalists should challenge HSE constantly, asking for transparent kpi reports: how long does it take to inform the school on average, what is the worst case scenario, for what regions - what have HSE done to improve the (obvious) trends.

For example when I heard about the secondary school in Mullingar, wondered how many other schools in Westmeath would be delayed getting their information from HSE cause of the size of this one, or how they say they have limited resources; are HSE expanding/contracting the resource allocation on per need basis - what is really going on ?

Queried

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Question for the primary teachers on here: what's the story with dressing up for Halloween in your schools?

A friend of mine said that the principal isn't allowing it in their school due to Coronavirus restrictions. We are dressing up at mine. I can't see why we shouldn't dress up this year but am just curious about whether other schools have said no to it.

We are too. I can't see why not either and at least it gives the kids a chance to have some sort of Halloween celebration, even if they are confined to their desks. I've never had a class ask about it as often, and I have 6th. They're so excited to dress up. Like you said, I can't see any reason why it couldn't happen? Unless I'm missing something?

khalessi

MelbourneMan wrote: »

The political decision has been taken that places schooling of children as a higher priority activity than visiting other households. I think it stands to reason.

I agree with you that the chain of transmission has many links but the government are blatantly ignoring the role of schools. They are trying to use Jedi mindtricks... Theres nothing to see here, these are not the schools you are looking for lol.

Schools definitely have a role in transmission, it has been found to be so in other countries and in various studies. Just be honest and do something about it.

thomas 123

mvl wrote: »

And I think the unions/journalists should challenge HSE constantly, asking for transparent kpi reports: how long does it take to inform the school on average, what is the worst case scenario, for what regions - what have HSE done to improve the (obvious) trends.

For example when I heard about the secondary school in Mullingar, wondered how many other schools in Westmeath would be delayed getting their information from HSE cause of the size of this one, or how they say they have limited resources; are HSE expanding/contracting the resource allocation on per need basis - what is really going on ?

Reading what teachers are saying it looks like the hse (or whomever is responsible) is downplaying cases and intentionally withholding information(surprise surprise).

khalessi

thomas 123 wrote: »

Reading what teachers are saying it looks like the hse (or whomever is responsible) is downplaying cases and intentionally withholding information(surprise surprise).

Just to compare with hospitals, My sister came in contact with a doctor who tested positive for covid both wearing masks and she was she reckons 2 metres away. She got tested 3 times in 7 days all negative tg.

Teachers have been told that despite being within 2 metres and for longer than 15 minutes because they are wearing a mask they are not a contact. I was one of these, told not to leave my room until my status was decided. I had spent over an hour with a child in masks sitting either side of a desk less than one metre apart in a small room and was told not a close contact. Do I need to sit on the child to be considered a close contact? .

Also all contacts of that doctor where tracked and traced while tracking and tracing not happening for the most part in schools as contacts of students or teachers outruled from the get go.