Schools closed until February? (part 3)

thomas 123

JimmyVik wrote: »

Imagine if DES, nphet, hse, govt had planned for this in August instead of sticking their heads in the sand and hoping for the best.


MY sense is that schools were full of it. Asymptomatic kids broke up a couple of days before Christmas.
Parents thought, oh, the kids are fine, the govt and nphet said they cant spread it. Lets bring them shopping and visit the families. Sure the kids cant spread it.

Planned lol.

It’s only third covid crisis.

The HSE has had a winter crisis for the last 20 years in a row.

Icyseanfitz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What I expect is a mish mash of a mess, them trying to pander to everyone and getting nothing right. Fully expect that they will want us to cater for both online and inperson at the same time..

I went through my class last night and I think 17 of them could lay realistic claims to being from homes of a "key/essential" worker such is the range of stuff that is still open.

Yeah that's my feeling on it as well, they will make an announcement as if they are closing schools for nothing but the most essential of students..... Which will turn into all of them and it will be pretty much business as usual.

mirrorwall14

scrubs33 wrote: »

It will probably end up being the usual ham fisted mess. They will try to replicate the essential worker clause from the UK but not define it enough. Time wise I think they will go initially until the end of January with the option of reviewing progress and then say buildings will reopen after mid term. I don’t know what they will do for the disadvantaged kids. I’m still expecting an announcement on Thursday with the usual leaks etc tomorrow.

It would be far far better to do week on week off for students than this mess tbh. At least then we have our hands on with kids every second week. Childcare issues are halved for parents. Class sizes drop massively overnight.

If they don’t fix the essential workers list I can see some schools having almost full lists of students

bladespin

JimmyVik wrote: »

Imagine if DES, nphet, hse, govt had planned for this in August instead of sticking their heads in the sand and hoping for the best.

Imagine if they had actually planned for the pandemic when they were notified, added ICU capacity etc.

Teacher2020

The current UK list would see me have nearly a full class. Only 5 children would have to stay at home. It should be only available for children where both parents are essential workers/single parents who are key workers. Vulnerable children should also be catered for.

khalessi

Teacher2020 wrote: »

The current UK list would see me have nearly a full class. Only 5 children would have to stay at home. It should be only available for children where both parents are essential workers/single parents who are key workers. Vulnerable children should also be catered for.

Norma said the schools would be open by hook or by crook. This is the workaround to get that. I would be surprised it the lists are altered as there would be uproar.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What I expect is a mish mash of a mess, them trying to pander to everyone and getting nothing right. Fully expect that they will want us to cater for both online and inperson at the same time..

I went through my class last night and I think 17 of them could lay realistic claims to being from homes of a "key/essential" worker such is the range of stuff that is still open.

This is my major concern at the moment. It’s too late in the day to try and implement this mish mash. Trying to run two separate learning systems with the level of provision at the moment will be a disaster which will leave no one happy. If this is the idea I’d rather a week on week off type situation - I think this would be better in terms of educational provision than some ham fisted aping of the English schools open for essential workers.

khalessi

lulublue22 wrote: »

This is my major concern at the moment. It’s too late in the day to try and implement this mish mash. Trying to run two separate learning systems with the level of provision at the moment will be a disaster which will leave no one happy. If this is the idea I’d rather a week on week off type situation - I think this would be better in terms of educational provision than some ham fisted aping of the English schools open for essential workers.

I do think they waited to see what Boris did so we could copy it. Be interesting to see how similar they are.

Icyseanfitz

I think we are all expecting it to be a useless limp approach anyway

SusanC10

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

If they don’t fix the essential workers list I can see some schools having almost full lists of students

Yeah, my Husband is classed as essential and has a letter from his organisation stating this in case he needs to go into the office. But in reality he has been there once only since last March and has been here at home otherwise.

alroley

SusanC10 wrote: »

Yeah, my Husband is classed as essential and has a letter from his organisation stating this in case he needs to go into the office. But in reality he has been there once only since last March and has been here at home otherwise.

I have friends that are the same. They have letters saying they are essential works and have permission to go to any of their companies offices in the country. They haven't seen the inside of an office since March 2020.

the kelt

So the CMO is now concerned about the rise in cases amongst children thats now coming to light.

But arent kids fine, no issues, school is like Narnia where normality takes leave of itself.

Imagine how concerned he would be if all the cases that were actually being identified in schools were cited as being in schools rather than the catch all "community transmission"

St.Spodo

It's clear as day that the government never foresaw a situation where schools would have to close, and therefore never bothered their hole to come up with a contingency plan. That in itself is outrageous, and it speaks to how they saw the coronavirus pandemic in July-September. They thought that dealing with the virus meant dealing with a static entity that could be kept at bay by washing our hands and wearing the mask, and not something that would cripple society if given half a chance.

Str8outtaWuhan

I had a quick look the the essential list from Ireland and the key workers list from UK, pretty much the same . I would hazard in some primary schools depending on socioeconomic background they could be pretty full while others pretty empty.

SusanC10

St.Spodo wrote: »

It's clear as day that the government never foresaw a situation where schools would have to close, and therefore never bothered their hole to come up with a contingency plan. That in itself is outrageous, and it speaks to how they saw the coronavirus pandemic in July-September. They thought that dealing with the virus meant dealing with a static entity that could be kept at bay by washing our hands and wearing the mask, and not something that would cripple society if given half a chance.

But surely they should have decided to plan for the worst case scenario??
Isn't that what Disaster Planning is about ?

scrubs33

Taken from the Examiner/Today programme on radio one: 'School principal Colm O’Rourke said that within schools “things have improved by 10 years” since this time last year with regard to remote learning.
There had been “huge investment” by the Department of Education and schools were now in a better position to provide online teaching, it was the engagement level that was the issue'
I'd agree with him about engagement being the issue but a 10 year improvement? Huge Investment?

Str8outtaWuhan

scrubs33 wrote: »

Taken from the Examiner/Today programme on radio one: 'School principal Colm O’Rourke said that within schools “things have improved by 10 years” since this time last year with regard to remote learning.
There had been “huge investment” by the Department of Education and schools were now in a better position to provide online teaching, it was the engagement level that was the issue'
I'd agree with him about engagement being the issue but a 10 year improvement? Huge Investment?

He would know all about huge investments

St.Spodo

SusanC10 wrote: »

But surely they should have decided to plan for the worst case scenario??
Isn't that what Disaster Planning is about ?

Yes, absolutely they should have.

wirelessdude01

scrubs33 wrote: »

Taken from the Examiner/Today programme on radio one: 'School principal Colm O’Rourke said that within schools “things have improved by 10 years” since this time last year with regard to remote learning.
There had been “huge investment” by the Department of Education and schools were now in a better position to provide online teaching, it was the engagement level that was the issue'
I'd agree with him about engagement being the issue but a 10 year improvement? Huge Investment?

I would take anything that man says with a pinch of salt. He will say anything once he gets payed for his contribution.

jimmytwotimes 2013

scrubs33 wrote: »

Taken from the Examiner/Today programme on radio one: 'School principal Colm O’Rourke said that within schools “things have improved by 10 years” since this time last year with regard to remote learning.
There had been “huge investment” by the Department of Education and schools were now in a better position to provide online teaching, it was the engagement level that was the issue'
I'd agree with him about engagement being the issue but a 10 year improvement? Huge Investment?

Come over to the west of Ireland Colm and you might change your tune

scrubs33

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I would take anything that man says with a pinch of salt. He will say anything once he gets payed for his contribution.

Oh absolutely but he's the go to guy for RTE it seems when looking for the views of school leaders. It's a dangerous narrative to be presenting and could/will stoke the debate around the effectiveness of online provision.

Red Silurian

NPHET constantly saying for the last few months that schools are 'safe environments' yet they need to be closed, one wonders...

khalessi

SusanC10 wrote: »

But surely they should have decided to plan for the worst case scenario??
Isn't that what Disaster Planning is about ?

I think for Dept disaster planning would be in relation to earthquakes and volcanoes and sure they dont effect us.

This depsite the fact they have had 10 months to come up with something.

khalessi

colmtheperson wrote: »

NPHET constantly saying for the last few months that schools are 'safe environments' yet they need to be closed, one wonders...

More and more data coming through that schools help spread this and all along they preached schools are safe.

JimmyVik

alroley wrote: »

I have friends that are the same. They have letters saying they are essential works and have permission to go to any of their companies offices in the country. They haven't seen the inside of an office since March 2020.

I have one too. And not been in the office since last March.


So lets say children of essential workers go to school, which means children of teachers go in too.

The teacher must teach the kids in the school. Who is going to teach the kids who are at home?

The_Brood

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Schools were open throughout November with falling case numbers. What costs lives is adults socialising and meeting inside.

....And those adults socialising inside have absolutely no contact with said students who go to school, and if they do the students can't just as easily spread the virus?

Honestly the logical pits people have to jump over to defend this government's 'decision making' are astonishing.

MerlinSouthDub

The_Brood wrote: »

....And those adults socialising inside have absolutely no contact with said students who go to school, and if they do the students can't just as easily spread the virus?

Honestly the logical pits people have to jump over to defend this government's 'decision making' are astonishing.

? The schools were open for 4 months without causing a surge. I fully support them being closed now, because community infection is so high. But, it's completely obvious what caused the Christmas surge i.e. nothing to do with schools.

eviltwin

SusanC10 wrote: »

Yeah, my Husband is classed as essential and has a letter from his organisation stating this in case he needs to go into the office. But in reality he has been there once only since last March and has been here at home otherwise.

I don’t understand that. I would have assumed essential means a job that can’t be done from home and a service that can’t close. I know a few people who have bosses who want them on site so they suddenly become essential workers when in reality they don’t need to be there.

Bananaleaf

So schools may close until the end of the month, but may remain open for:

Children of frontline workers
Children in disadvantaged areas
Disabled children

Does that sound to anyone like they will have a full reopening of SEN schools and ones in disadvantaged areas and then access for frontline workers only in the remaining ones?

Article points out that the closure is not due to schools being unsafe, rather to stop the movement of up to 1million people around the country

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-to-stay-shut-until-end-of-month-under-cabinet-plan-as-more-than-6000-new-covid-cases-recorded-39932928.html

I would have assumed essential means a job that can’t be done from home

the biggest obstacle schools could face will be employers' loose interpretations of the word essential.

jimmytwotimes 2013

JimmyVik wrote: »

The teacher must teach the kids in the school. Who is going to teach the kids who are at home?

I presume the teacher wud engage online, from the school, with those students. Dunno if they're thinking of that of not. Children of teachers obv go to school then as nobody home to mind them.