Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Bananaleaf

Lillyfae wrote: »

No-one should've been at the office since March without a good reason, that never changed, so it's not really 2 - 3 days notice for employers.

Yes, fair enough you are right actually. If employers were playing by the rules from the beginning, there wouldnt be a problem now. A lot didn't though.

Benimar

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I can't remember if the union had an issue with live streaming or recording? I know they definitely were against recording classes, but can't remember if they also advised against live streaming.

One thing the union was very clear on was that it was the teacher's discretion what form of remote learning they delivered.

I know from the TUI point of view, the issue is with the recording of classes. There isn't (to the best of my knowledge) any issue with live streaming.

I have live streamed a load of classes (3rd level) and recorded them for people who want to watch them later. The problem with recording I find is that student engagement is decimated as they don't like the idea of themselves being recorded, which is fair enough.

bladespin

Lillyfae wrote: »

No-one should've been at the office since March without a good reason, that never changed, so it's not really 2 - 3 days notice for employers.

What about those with a good reason? There's not going to be much time to organize anything especially if both parents are classed essential.

Just for a lol, on the flip side, imagine both parents working from home trying to then home-school the kids?

Icyseanfitz

They will create the same problem they did with employers and other workplace, leave it open to a wide interpretation.

lulublue22

Can’t see live streaming working too well at primary level. If you have 3 children across primary school you are looking at 3 separate devices + question of keeping children on task/ supervision. for a school day. Pity those who don’t make the essential list if live streaming at primary is planned. At this stage gov need to thin that list to a minimum and free up staff for online. Fuster cluck of extreme proportions incoming. Blended learning would be better than this.

Lillyfae

bladespin wrote: »

What about those with a good reason? There's not going to be much time to organize anything especially if both parents are classed essential.

Well obviously those children go to school. No problem.

bladespin wrote: »

Just for a lol, on the flip side, imagine both parents working from home trying to then home-school the kids?

It's not really that lol when it's a reality for many parents.

Bananaleaf

Lillyfae wrote: »

None of this really helps as it gives people carte blanche to go their own way. What is their problem with either mode exactly?

I would have to look back on the literature but I dont think it went into detail about the exact reasons why they were against it.

However, remember that at the time we were talking about lessons being recorded or live streamed while they were being delivered to a classroom full of children.

It wasn't just about protecting the teacher, it was also about protecting the students and I'm not just talking about their faces being on screen

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

One thing the union was very clear on was that it was the teacher's discretion what form of remote learning they delivered.

Kinda easy to have discretion when the govt don't give any proper direction which leads to the mess we had last time.

bladespin

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's not really that lol when it's a reality for many parents.

That's my point, catch 22, I'd imagine it would eventually force one of them out of work.

I'd also have a big question about educating kids differently depending on their parent's job, I would imagine that would be a crucial part of any decision.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Kinda easy to have discretion when the govt don't give any proper direction which leads to the mess we had last time.

When the government tells us to come up with something ourselves, everyone wonders why we aren't just getting on with it.

But when the unions tell us to come up with something ourselves, everyone loses their shït

JDD

So assuming that teachers, health care workers, supermarket employees, food delivery and logistics employees, employees of hardware and building supply stores, construction workers, bank employees and childcare workers are all essential staff. And assuming they do not have a spouse/partner who is a stay at home parent, then children of ALL these workers can go to school?

I remember reading somewhere that 30% of the workforce continued to go into work during the first lockdown, as they were essential workers. I'm not sure if it would work out as the same proportion for families, but it's probably close enough.

So that essentially means that all teachers would have to be in school every day.

How are they going to have the time to prepare on-line lessons for the remaining two thirds of children that are at home?

Add in children with additional needs and children that have been identified as vulnerable, and you might as well open the school fully.

I think they are going to have to narrow the definition of essential workers significantly. Health care workers and teachers, basically. And have say one teacher teaching JI to 1st class, another teaching 2nd to 4th etc. The other teachers will prepare the online learning. That's the only way to do it really.

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

When the government tells us to come up with something ourselves, everyone wonders why we aren't just getting on with it.

But when the unions tell us to come up with something ourselves, everyone loses their shït

The word union seems to evoke something strange in some people.

Bananaleaf

JDD wrote: »

So assuming that teachers, health care workers, supermarket employees, food delivery and logistics employees, employees of hardware and building supply stores, construction workers, bank employees and childcare workers are all essential staff. And assuming they do not have a spouse/partner who is a stay at home parent, then children of ALL these workers can go to school?

And to add to that list:
Gardai, vets, bike shops owners, those who provide IT support to essential workers, tradespeople ...

What more am I missing?

teachinggal123

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I can't remember if the union had an issue with live streaming or recording? I know they definitely were against recording classes, but can't remember if they also advised against live streaming.

One thing the union was very clear on was that it was the teacher's discretion what form of remote learning they delivered.

There is also advice that no teacher will be required to do online/remote.

wirelessdude01

JDD wrote: »

I think they are going to have to narrow the definition of essential workers significantly. Health care workers and teachers, basically. And have say one teacher teaching JI to 1st class, another teaching 2nd to 4th etc. The other teachers will prepare the online learning. That's the only way to do it really.

Then that is their great evolutionary idea of pods and bubbles out the window as we are mixing classes.

JDD

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And to add to that list:
Gardai, vets, bike shops owners, those who provide IT support to essential workers, tradespeople ...

What more am I missing?

I mean yeah - there's actually way more people identified as essential this time around than there was in march. There was no construction, no building supply stores, no Woodies, no creches etc open.

lulublue22

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And to add to that list:
Gardai, vets, bike shops owners, those who provide IT support to essential workers, tradespeople ...

What more am I missing?

mechanics , petrol stations, take away restaurants / cafes

JDD

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Then that is their great evolutionary idea of pods and bubbles out the window as we are mixing classes.

Yeah but they've been at home for three weeks. You can start a new system of pods within the blended class if they started back on Monday.

beggars_bush

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The word union seems to evoke something strange in some people.

Especially in private sector workers

I'm sure the majority or teachers will figure it out

bladespin

JDD wrote: »

I think they are going to have to narrow the definition of essential workers significantly. Health care workers and teachers, basically. And have say one teacher teaching JI to 1st class, another teaching 2nd to 4th etc. The other teachers will prepare the online learning. That's the only way to do it really.

I'm guessing your fridge is full and that you're sure you won't require any real health care.

Edit: forgot the loo-roll, guess you've lots of that.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

mechanics , petrol stations, take away restaurants / cafes

Bike couriers, political people.

Lillyfae

Bananaleaf wrote: »

But when the unions tell us to come up with something ourselves, everyone loses their shït

They haven't told you to come up with something yourselves though, they've just told you what not to do. They're not great for supporting and furthering your interests imo.

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And to add to that list:
Gardai, vets, bike shops owners, those who provide IT support to essential workers, tradespeople ...

What more am I missing?

It will no doubt be an extensive list. My 2 are in school and daycare here. 70% attendance at daycare and 50% at school. There are some teachers amongst the parents afaik but most would be engineers etc. Some children who would be classed as "at risk" too. No emergency services at all to the best of my knowledge. We both work in "essential" areas, my husband has to be on site most days but I don't. There is no way I could do my job and look after a toddler and an early primary schooler though.

lulublue22

JDD wrote: »

I think they are going to have to narrow the definition of essential workers significantly. Health care workers and teachers, basically. And have say one teacher teaching JI to 1st class, another teaching 2nd to 4th etc. The other teachers will prepare the online learning. That's the only way to do it really.

Those class bands are by far too wide to accommodate any meaningful learning.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Bike couriers, political people.

Physios! Just got an email from one telling me that they will remain open

BonsaiKitten

JDD wrote: »

Yeah but they've been at home for three weeks. You can start a new system of pods within the blended class if they started back on Monday.

So assuming that they announce on Wednesday morning (being optimistic here), the schools have to do the following:

- contact parents to establish keyworker lists
- set up new bubbles
- assign teachers to bubbles (rota?)
- decide who provides remote learning while class teachers are with keyworker children
- figure out what the keyworker children are going to do
- contact parents with details of the above

Plus put the remote learning plans in place and possibly have parents in to collect belongings. Am I missing anything? Seems like an awful lot of work to cram into a very short space of time. I can see a lot of corners being cut to meet deadlines.

Lillyfae

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

- contact parents to establish keyworker lists
- set up new bubbles
- assign teachers to bubbles (rota?)
- decide who provides remote learning while class teachers are with keyworker children
- figure out what the keyworker children are going to do
- contact parents with details of the above

The onus would be on the parents to inform of and prove their essential status, and to inform the school on time.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

Those class bands are by far too wide to accommodate any meaningful learning.

Child minding anyone?

jrosen

When you really think about who is behind the wheels turning every day the numbers soon add up. This idea that front line essential workers are only nurses and doctors is mad. We have everything from refuse collection to lab techs to scientists to radiographers, vets dentists, stock room people, food processing, farming, checkouts, bank people, mortgages being approved, house sales, therapies, the list of people required on site to ensure life keeps moving at a minimum is quite large IMO.

Then you have to look at kids who really need to be in school. How many students will drown at home? How many really need the school’s environment?
I don’t have answers. It’s all so up in the air and the lack of planning is disgraceful.. it leaves us all staff students and parents in limbo

BonsaiKitten

Lillyfae wrote: »

The onus would be on the parents to inform of and prove their essential status, and to inform the school on time.

So the school have to verify and collate all keyworker details, then create separate groups of children from the master list. That's still a big job.

I wouldn't mind if we had been told about this in September/October/November and plans could be done properly instead of rushing through everything.

JeffKenna

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And to add to that list:
Gardai, vets, bike shops owners, those who provide IT support to essential workers, tradespeople ...

What more am I missing?

Farmers