Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Lillyfae

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

So the school have to verify and collate all keyworker details, then create separate groups of children from the master list. That's still a big job.

I wouldn't mind if we had been told about this in September/October/November and plans could be done properly instead of rushing through everything.

Everybody is working rolling 14 day average to rolling 14 day average. How do you expect they might have foreseen this? Schools will unfortunately have to individually do alot of work on this stuff. It's why they have a principal, with a different skillset from the teaching staff. Boards of management should be supporting this too.

BonsaiKitten

Lillyfae wrote: »

Everybody is working rolling 14 day average to rolling 14 day average. How do you expect they might have foreseen this? Schools will unfortunately have to individually do alot of work on this stuff. It's why they have a principal, with a different skillset from the teaching staff. Boards of management should be supporting this too.

I'm not talking about the lockdown, I'm talking about keyworker provision. That was entirely foreseeable and plans could have been put in place for that. However that'd involve the Dept of Ed doing some forward planning and as you've learned on this thread, that doesn't really happen.

greenbicycle

Splitting classes into children of essential and non essential workers has really shown the perceived reality of schools, pure childminding. All mention of education and mental health etc etc are out the window now. By splitting we are creating two tier education, quality face to face and then hinder those with inferior online schooL. Not a level playing field for long term outcomes. No care for actual education its all about child minding.

wirelessdude01

Huge amount of organisation to be done after we are told what is expected. Alot of this could have been already done and dusted if the DES/Govt had done as we wanted and published plans for different scenarios. Schools could have been ready with their lists and what not.

JDD

bladespin wrote: »

I'm guessing your fridge is full and that you're sure you won't require any real health care.

Edit: forgot the loo-roll, guess you've lots of that.

Don't get me wrong - I really want the schools to be open. Creches even more so as I'm not going to get a tap done once I have the 3 year old at home and my employers patience is going to wear thin.

I don't see how it can work any other way though. If you include supermarket workers, or construction workers, you couldn't in all honesty leave out those working in food delivery or building supply.

And if you include everyone who is currently working outside of the home, the schools will be 30-50% full, which will need a full suite of teachers to teach them. Apart from the ongoing risk to teachers, and the risk that classes - even 30% full - are going to keep the virus circulating in the community at a time when we need a strict lockdown - you are asking teachers to do two full time jobs. Which I'm sure most teachers would make an attempt at but ultimately everyone will lose out.

Those class bands are by far too wide to accommodate any meaningful learning.

I'm not a teacher, so I'll absolutely defer to your opinion. But there are a lot of small country primary schools that have only 2/3 teachers right? Do all the children that come out of those have substandard education?

Child minding anyone?

Look, lets face it, when we are opening schools for the children of key workers, that's essentially the purpose. They may get a bit of learning in, in a large class with three or four age groups, but I guarantee you they won't be at a learning disadvantage compared to the children who are being taught at home by their working parents.

Van.Bosch

Is there any scope for extending the school year into July for primary schools does anyone think? Seems a good idea to me but I’m sure it’s not that simple?

wirelessdude01

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is there any scope for extending the school year into July for primary schools does anyone think? Seems a good idea to me but I’m sure it’s not that simple?

So no online now?

BonsaiKitten

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So no online now?

And no keyworker provision either I assume.

average_runner

JDD wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - I really want the schools to be open. Creches even more so as I'm not going to get a tap done once I have the 3 year old at home and my employers patience is going to wear thin.

I don't see how it can work any other way though. If you include supermarket workers, or construction workers, you couldn't in all honesty leave out those working in food delivery or building supply.

And if you include everyone who is currently working outside of the home, the schools will be 30-50% full, which will need a full suite of teachers to teach them. Apart from the ongoing risk to teachers, and the risk that classes - even 30% full - are going to keep the virus circulating in the community at a time when we need a strict lockdown - you are asking teachers to do two full time jobs. Which I'm sure most teachers would make an attempt at but ultimately everyone will lose out.


I'm not a teacher, so I'll absolutely defer to your opinion. But there are a lot of small country primary schools that have only 2/3 teachers right? Do all the children that come out of those have substandard education?



Look, lets face it, when we are opening schools for the children of key workers, that's essentially the purpose. They may get a bit of learning in, in a large class with three or four age groups, but I guarantee you they won't be at a learning disadvantage compared to the children who are being taught at home by their working parents.

And how do working parents teach at home if they are working 9-6 or 9-7?

average_runner

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is there any scope for extending the school year into July for primary schools does anyone think? Seems a good idea to me but I’m sure it’s not that simple?

So hit the tourism industry even harder ? School ends in June and that is it.
Even if they miss two months, that can be caught up on quick enough especially in primary.
One of the most important things the kids should be doing right now is reading at home. We can all manage that with kids.

30 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the afternoon

JDD

average_runner wrote: »

And how do working parents teach at home if they are working 9-6 or 9-7?

Do you mean parents WFH or outside the home?

if it's outside the home, then how did you manage it last March to June?

If it's WFH, and you are a single parent, then I don't know TBH. I don't know how single parents did it the first time around.

If you have two parents WFH then it has to be shifts. Last March - June we did 7am to 1.30, or 1.30 to 7.30. Once the kids were in bed, we did two more hours on the laptop. It was a killer, but at least this time it may only be for 4-6 weeks.

joe40

Reset the whole year. Everyone start back again next september, third level included.

It will mean all children due to start school in sept 2021 will start in sept 2022. We do start school early so might be manageable.

Tongue in cheek suggestion but does it have some merit.

I know third level students would definitely benefit from redoing this year but unfortunately the financial hit would be too great for most.

average_runner

JDD wrote: »

Do you mean parents WFH or outside the home?

if it's outside the home, then how did you manage it last March to June?

If it's WFH, and you are a single parent, then I don't know TBH. I don't know how single parents did it the first time around.

If you have two parents WFH then it has to be shifts. Last March - June we did 7am to 1.30, or 1.30 to 7.30. Once the kids were in bed, we did two more hours on the laptop. It was a killer, but at least this time it may only be for 4-6 weeks.

You live in a dream world. There is no shifts in certain work areas. Both of us work from home, on laptops, would be on calls for 90% of that time and need to be in those calls.


We aren't front line workers but without us you have no cash or mobile networks



I feel sorry for people with kids under 5, but you can't let one selection go to school and not the others.

average_runner

joe40 wrote: »

Reset the whole year. Everyone start back again next september, third level included.

It will mean all children due to start school in sept 2021 will start in sept 2022. We do start school early so might be manageable.

Tongue in cheek suggestion but does it have some merit.

I know third level students would definitely benefit from redoing this year but unfortunately the financial hit would be too great for most.

That would work if we knew 2021/2022 would be not the same!!

JDD

average_runner wrote: »

You live in a dream world. There is no shifts in certain work areas. Both of us work from home, on laptops, would be on calls for 90% of that time and need to be in those calls.


We aren't front line workers but without us you have no cash or mobile networks



I feel sorry for people with kids under 5, but you can't let one selection go to school and not the others.

IT support?

Is your employer giving you no flexibility?

I can't answer your particular situation. I realise that if schools are closed, creches have to be too. The only answer is to get a childminder for a portion of the day - costing whatever you used to pay for childminding outside of school hours and anything more you can afford for the next six weeks. And then muddle through for the remainder of the hours, letting them watch youtube, like everyone else.

Leftwaffe

Martin all but confirms a closure until the 31st of January on the radio.

Queried

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1346452897593233409?s=20

average_runner

JDD wrote: »

IT support?

Is your employer giving you no flexibility?

I can't answer your particular situation. I realise that if schools are closed, creches have to be too. The only answer is to get a childminder for a portion of the day - costing whatever you used to pay for childminding outside of school hours and anything more you can afford for the next six weeks. And then muddle through for the remainder of the hours, letting them watch youtube, like everyone else.

Not IT support. My kids will be ok, its people with younger kids that struggle more. When kids are under 4 its the problem, youtube not much use then and not really the answer.




That is why we can't have one selection in school and not the other.


Bu

khalessi

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

So assuming that they announce on Wednesday morning (being optimistic here), the schools have to do the following:

- contact parents to establish keyworker lists
- set up new bubbles
- assign teachers to bubbles (rota?)
- decide who provides remote learning while class teachers are with keyworker children
- figure out what the keyworker children are going to do
- contact parents with details of the above

Plus put the remote learning plans in place and possibly have parents in to collect belongings. Am I missing anything? Seems like an awful lot of work to cram into a very short space of time. I can see a lot of corners being cut to meet deadlines.

I think this is overthinkiing things.

BonsaiKitten

khalessi wrote: »

I think this is overthinkiing things.

My number 1 skill

SusanC10

JDD wrote: »

If you have two parents WFH then it has to be shifts. Last March - June we did 7am to 1.30, or 1.30 to 7.30. Once the kids were in bed, we did two more hours on the laptop. It was a killer, but at least this time it may only be for 4-6 weeks.

That's what some people did on my Husband's Teams last year. Parents of young kids.
2 people on a Team paired up and one of them started at 6am/7am and then they overlapped for say an hour and the second person worked late. He had to ok it which he did as he knows these people and they work hard. Not ideal obviously but they made it work and he said that he will be ok with similar arrangements now. Not all Managers in the same organisation were ok with this type of thing though both more junior than my Husband and same level.

Stateofyou

khalessi wrote: »

I think this is overthinkiing things.

I actually thought that was quite a good summary! That's certainly where the DES should have started months ago.

wirelessdude01

Moving more and more to a march type lockdown with schools in some form to be reduced capacity, more than likely construction to be stopped. With construction stopped that will mean all the hardware shops will more than likely be physically closed. Click and collect.and delivery options might be allowed for them.

Lillyfae

JDD wrote: »

If you have two parents WFH then it has to be shifts. Last March - June we did 7am to 1.30, or 1.30 to 7.30. Once the kids were in bed, we did two more hours on the laptop. It was a killer, but at least this time it may only be for 4-6 weeks.

We did this too. There was great understanding the last time round because everyone in the world was in the same position really. This time round the playing field isn't level, with massive differences internationally.

JTMan

Interesting Twitter thread on the role that schools pay in transmission ... https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154

- Study carried out across >200 countries that showed that among all interventions studied, closing educational institutions was the 2nd most effective.
- US study linked statewide school closures to 60% reductions in both new cases of COVID-19 & COVID-19 mortality.
- SAGE report on schools - as many of us reported at the time, SAGE reading of evidence concurs that infection rates among children dropped over half-term & increased again following this in Oct. This is before the new variant was dominant.
- Children far more likely to be the *index* case. ONS suggest that 2-12 yr olds are *2x* and 12-16 yr olds *7x* more likely to be the index case in a household compared with adults.

khalessi

JTMan wrote: »

Interesting Twitter thread on the role that schools pay in transmission ... https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154

- Study carried out across >200 countries that showed that among all interventions studied, closing educational institutions was the 2nd most effective.
- US study linked statewide school closures to 60% reductions in both new cases of COVID-19 & COVID-19 mortality.
- SAGE report on schools - as many of us reported at the time, SAGE reading of evidence concurs that infection rates among children dropped over half-term & increased again following this in Oct. This is before the new variant was dominant.
- Children far more likely to be the *index* case. ONS suggest that 2-12 yr olds are *2x* and 12-16 yr olds *7x* more likely to be the index case in a household compared with adults.

Yeah linked that this moring but yet Micheal still saying schools are safe

beggars_bush

khalessi wrote: »

Yeah linked that this moring but yet Micheal still saying schools are safe

Its the special pixie dust Norma sends to all schools

Solar2021

average_runner wrote: »

We aren't front line workers but without us you have no cash or mobile networks

You working in India?

lulublue22

JDD wrote: »

I'm not a teacher, so I'll absolutely defer to your opinion. But there are a lot of small country primary schools that have only 2/3 teachers right? Do all the children that come out of those have substandard

Please do not put words in my mouth. 2 teacher rural schools are virtually a thing of the past. Yes there are small rural schools ( usually with shared SET) who have multigrade classes and do so quite successfully. That is not the same thing as banding ji to first and 2nd to 4th into two class groups and that’s before you look at numbers. That level of banding children together is simply child minding and nothing else.

Lillyfae

lulublue22 wrote: »

Please do not put words in my mouth. 2 teacher rural schools are virtually a thing of the past. Yes there are small rural schools ( usually with shared SET) who have multigrade classes and do so quite successfully. That is not the same thing as banding ji to first and 2nd to 4th into two class groups and that’s before you look at numbers. That level of banding children together is simply child minding and nothing else.

I'd disagree with this. Previously in a big family this would have been the norm at home because there would have been 5/6 or more children of all ages. Most of the schools where I am mix children of ages 4 - 12 regularly in groups in order to foster an organic learning between them. It works pretty well, and it allows children to move up a year when they're ready to rather than it being September because they aren't limited by the curriculum of the age group that they're in. Edit: it also prevents children being moved on before they're ready.