Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Stateofyou

JTMan wrote: »

Interesting Twitter thread on the role that schools pay in transmission ... https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1346362159446577154

- Study carried out across >200 countries that showed that among all interventions studied, closing educational institutions was the 2nd most effective.
- US study linked statewide school closures to 60% reductions in both new cases of COVID-19 & COVID-19 mortality.
- SAGE report on schools - as many of us reported at the time, SAGE reading of evidence concurs that infection rates among children dropped over half-term & increased again following this in Oct. This is before the new variant was dominant.
- Children far more likely to be the *index* case. ONS suggest that 2-12 yr olds are *2x* and 12-16 yr olds *7x* more likely to be the index case in a household compared with adults.

I know a few posters here won't be liking this one, :pac:

khalessi

Stateofyou wrote: »

I know a few posters here won't be liking this one, :pac:

I can think of a few in government too :pac::pac:

What schoool transmissions?

GooglePlus

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1346464817981231111?s=20

SleetAndSnow

https://twitter.com/NiamhSmythTD/status/1346466433102876672?s=20

JDD

lulublue22 wrote: »

Please do not put words in my mouth. 2 teacher rural schools are virtually a thing of the past. Yes there are small rural schools ( usually with shared SET) who have multigrade classes and do so quite successfully. That is not the same thing as banding ji to first and 2nd to 4th into two class groups and that’s before you look at numbers. That level of banding children together is simply child minding and nothing else.

Well lets call a spade a spade here. They are not opening schools to the children of key workers because those children require in-school learning more than other kids. They're opening for those children so that their parents can go to work. It is childminding, with a teacher there helping the children cover the coursework that they would be doing with their parents had they fallen outside of the "key worker" category.

I know that teachers bristle at the idea that they are a childminder. Of course you are not. You are much much more than that and four years of university plus many years of experience reflects that.

But if they do open schools to key worker children for the next four weeks, the primary reason is childminding. I'm sorry if that's very blunt - it is not at all a reflection on what I believe you do during the remainder of the year when you can teach normally. And blending classes in together is the only way I can see that a school can provide teachers for key worker children while also maintaining some semblance of education for the children at home.

JimmyVik

JDD wrote: »

Do you mean parents WFH or outside the home?

if it's outside the home, then how did you manage it last March to June?

If it's WFH, and you are a single parent, then I don't know TBH. I don't know how single parents did it the first time around.

If you have two parents WFH then it has to be shifts. Last March - June we did 7am to 1.30, or 1.30 to 7.30. Once the kids were in bed, we did two more hours on the laptop. It was a killer, but at least this time it may only be for 4-6 weeks.

Id say it will be at least after Easter before the schools are back.

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

I know a few posters here won't be liking this one, :pac:

I've read three of the studies there and none look at school closure in isolation- they all point this out. You can't deduce anything unless you look at it in isolation, and it would be ludicrous to only close schools and restrict nothing else in order to test the hypothesis. Low community rate will always = low rates in schools. Of course if rates are high there will be an increased risk. No-one here has said that children can't catch or spread the virus.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

I've read three of the studies there and neither one looks at school closure in isolation- they all point this out. You can't deduce anything unless you look at it in isolation, and it would be ludicrous to only close schools and restrict nothing else in order to test the hypothesis. Low community rate will always = low rates in schools. Of course if rates are high there will be an increased risk. No-one here has said that children can't catch or spread the virus.

I knew you'd be one of them

Are you a researcher/scientist, Lillyfae? You know more than SAGE and all the researchers involved?

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

I knew you'd be one of them

Are you a researcher/scientist, Lillyfae? You know more than SAGE?

That'd be telling, State .

The UK has it's own problems, that's certain.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I've read two of the studies there and neither one looks at school closure in isolation. You can't deduce anything unless you look at it in isolation, and it would be ludicrous to only close schools and restrict nothing else in order to test the hypothesis. Low community rate will always = low rates in schools. Of course if rates are high there will be an increased risk. No-one here has said that children can't catch or spread the virus.

That is why it say casual link.
THere are a rake of other studies too that you can tell us about later

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

That'd be telling, State .

The UK has it's own problems, that's certain.

So that's a no. :pac:

wirelessdude01

So if we have some kids in school and others at home are we going to copy the English system that they had last year where work is assigned to all and that those in school are just essentially minded and supervised while they do it, no actual teaching going on?

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

So that's a no. :pac:

That's an "I'd rather you didn't badger me about my profession on an anonymous message board". I'll offer it up if I feel like it, which I don't.

SusanC10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So if we have some kids in school and others at home are we going to copy the English system that they had last year where work is assigned to all and that those in school are just essentially minded and supervised while they do it, no actual teaching going on?

Is that how it worked then ? I wasn't sure.

mirrorwall14

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So if we have some kids in school and others at home are we going to copy the English system that they had last year where work is assigned to all and that those in school are just essentially minded and supervised while they do it, no actual teaching going on?

Shower of unorganised idiots. Tomorrow. Let’s announce today we’re closing but don’t give schools any ****ing guidance on what they mean. Ffs if the dept of education had actually done ANYTHING on a proper backup plan then there should be nothing to be done everyone would know exactly what if entails and they flicked a switch. Instead we’re waiting to know if they’ll actually bother releasing guidance (or wait six weeks again....) and figuring it out ourselves in the meantime. No idea if there are kids in the room with teachers, all at home, all in? We could and should have had lists ready to go for something like that.

Can teachers work from home etc? Like our school broadband would be absolutely appalling but I can see there being a ‘teachers must be in the building’ for optics.

Our students told us overwhelmingly they don’t want live classes for a whole myriad of reasons. They want one check in a week live and the rest all self paced because they are minding kids, there’s limited devices, limited broadband during parents work hours etc. But again will we be allowed that?

What am I doing as a work from home teacher, does my sub keep going or do I take back over music classes I’ve not been teaching since October for two weeks? And what happens when schools reopen then and they no longer have a sub? Total **** show. It makes me so freaking angry.

Music practicals in particular are a disaster. They can’t practise in their groups? This is the go to for nervous students but they can’t sing together right now unless 2m apart outside! They haven’t been able to practise and how in gods name are they going to run them? As an examiner no way am I examining wind instruments and singers in a room with me one after another with community transmission of a virus....

It’s worth FIFTY percent of their exam ffs. There should be a plan

And I’m sure other practicals and projects and JC assessments in exactly the same boat

khalessi

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Shower of unorganised idiots. Tomorrow. Let’s announce today we’re closing but don’t give schools and ****ing guidance on what they mean. Ffs if the dept of education had actually done ANYTHING on a proper backup plan then there should be nothing to be done everyone would know exactly what if entails and they flicked a switch. Instead we’re waiting to know if they’ll actually bother releasing guidance (or wait six weeks again....) and figuring it out ourselves in the meantime. No idea if there are kids in the room with teachers, all at home, all in? We could and should have had lists ready to go for something like that.

Can teachers work from home etc? Like our school broadband would be absolutely appalling but I can see there being a ‘teachers must be in the building’ for optics.

Our students told us overwhelmingly they don’t want live classes for a whole myriad of reasons. They want one check in a week live and the rest all self paced because they are minding kids, there’s limited devices, limited broadband during parents work hours etc. But again will we be allowed that?

What am I doing as a work from home teacher, does my sub keep going or do I take back over music classes I’ve not been teaching since October for two weeks? And what happens when schools reopen then and they no longer have a sub? Total **** show. It makes me so freaking angry.

Cant give schools guidance until newspapers have it first

lulublue22

JDD wrote: »

Well lets call a spade a spade here. They are not opening schools to the children of key workers because those children require in-school learning more than other kids. They're opening for those children so that their parents can go to work. It is childminding, with a teacher there helping the children cover the coursework that they would be doing with their parents had they fallen outside of the "key worker" category.

I know that teachers bristle at the idea that they are a childminder. Of course you are not. You are much much more than that and four years of university plus many years of experience reflects that.

But if they do open schools to key worker children for the next four weeks, the primary reason is childminding. I'm sorry if that's very blunt - it is not at all a reflection on what I believe you do during the remainder of the year when you can teach normally. And blending classes in together is the only way I can see that a school can provide teachers for key worker children while also maintaining some semblance of education for the children at home.

The main issue with that is I presume key workers will expect that their children will receive an education too. Your idea of banding key worker children into such a wide educational range is simply to provide some semblance of education fir the children at home. Surely rather than prioritising educational provision for one group of children over another we should be finding the least disruptive for all.

ETA - helping children cover the coursework they should be doing in a class comprising children from JI to 1st ? that’s a phenomenal educational span and nothing short of crowd control.

mirrorwall14

khalessi wrote: »

Cant give schools guidance until newspapers have it first

I have no respect left for my superiors. None. Nada. And it’s not just me resenting things that make my life awkward or bashing the boss. They have proved they care for neither students nor teachers, have no vision and couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. Which is depressing as all hell because I love teaching.

Actually it’s not that they’ve lost more respect, they’ve just confirmed the complete lack of respect I already had for them with the dumbing down (imo€M) of the junior cycle, the ridiculousness of spending a fortune sending multiple presenters for training days in schools with walking debates and no answers to our questions and the bullying etc at the NCCA over syllabi (ahem specifications....).

khalessi

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I have no respect left for my superiors. None. Nada. And it’s not just me resenting things that make my life awkward or bashing the boss. They have proved they care for neither students nor teachers, have no vision and couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. Which is depressing as all hell because I love teaching.

Actually it’s not that they’ve lost more respect, they’ve just confirmed the complete lack of respect I already had for them with the dumbing down (imo€M) of the junior cycle, the ridiculousness of spending a fortune sending multiple presenters for training days in schools with walking debates and no answers to our questions and the bullying etc at the NCCA over syllabi (ahem specifications....).

Totally agree with you. Their attitude was despicable beforehand and even more so now

Wombatman

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NiamhSmythTD/status/1346466433102876672?s=20

Tweets disappearing like viruses do when they enter a school.

lulublue22

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Shower of unorganised idiots. Tomorrow. Let’s announce today we’re closing but don’t give schools any ****ing guidance on what they mean. Ffs if the dept of education had actually done ANYTHING on a proper backup plan then there should be nothing to be done everyone would know exactly what if entails and they flicked a switch. Instead we’re waiting to know if they’ll actually bother releasing guidance (or wait six weeks again....) and figuring it out ourselves in the meantime. No idea if there are kids in the room with teachers, all at home, all in? We could and should have had lists ready to go for something like that.

Can teachers work from home etc? Like our school broadband would be absolutely appalling but I can see there being a ‘teachers must be in the building’ for optics.

Our students told us overwhelmingly they don’t want live classes for a whole myriad of reasons. They want one check in a week live and the rest all self paced because they are minding kids, there’s limited devices, limited broadband during parents work hours etc. But again will we be allowed that?

What am I doing as a work from home teacher, does my sub keep going or do I take back over music classes I’ve not been teaching since October for two weeks? And what happens when schools reopen then and they no longer have a sub? Total **** show. It makes me so freaking angry.

Music practicals in particular are a disaster. They can’t practise in their groups? This is the go to for nervous students but they can’t sing together right now unless 2m apart outside! They haven’t been able to practise and how in gods name are they going to run them? As an examiner no way am I examining wind instruments and singers in a room with me one after another with community transmission of a virus....

It’s worth FIFTY percent of their exam ffs. There should be a plan

And I’m sure other practicals and projects and JC assessments in exactly the same boat

Questions around special schools and special classes in mainstream - possibility they might open ?

mirrorwall14

lulublue22 wrote: »

Questions around special schools and special classes in mainstream - possibility they might open ?

Soooooo many questions. No answers though. Sure what’s the rush?

Mrsmum

[QUOTE

Music practicals in particular are a disaster. They can’t practise in their groups? This is the go to for nervous students but they can’t sing together right now unless 2m apart outside! They haven’t been able to practise and how in gods name are they going to run them? As an examiner no way am I examining wind instruments and singers in a room with me one after another with community transmission of a virus....

It’s worth FIFTY percent of their exam ffs. There should be a plan

And I’m sure other practicals and projects and JC assessments in exactly the same boat[/QUOTE]

My son did his final grade exam there before Christmas. It involved him videoing himself playing the pieces and sending them in. Could that work for school practicals ? He was really hoping for full marks for his school practical as he is only superb, if I do say so myself 😀.

wirelessdude01

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Soooooo many questions. No answers though. Sure what’s the rush?

Emails are starting to come in from the parents in my class. I have ZERO information is the default reply.

lulublue22

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Soooooo many questions. No answers though. Sure what’s the rush?

It’s a bit of a **** show alright to be fair.

rob316

Very disappointed all schools are staying closed, no sense to the special schools been closed with tiny class sizes.

alroley

rob316 wrote: »

Very disappointed all schools are staying closed, no sense to the special schools been closed with tiny class sizes.

I thought special schools were staying open?

rob316

alroley wrote: »

I thought special schools were staying open?

Oh so they are, brilliant.

BonsaiKitten

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Emails are starting to come in from the parents in my class. I have ZERO information is the default reply.

Same here, along with requests for private tutoring. I think they think I must have a hotline to the Department!

SusanC10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Emails are starting to come in from the parents in my class. I have ZERO information is the default reply.

We are not permitted to contact any of the Teachers directly at either School. All contact must go through the School Secretaries even email.