Schools closed until February? (part 3)

scouserstation

alroley wrote: »

We are at 6000 cases per day. Our hospitals are quickly reaching capacity. When do you think would be the right time to stop over 1 million people going into small rooms with no social distancing?

Teachers were complaining about going to work back in September when we only had a couple of hundred cases a day, while it may be justifiable now it don't think it was back then and any closing of schools should be carefully considered going forward

Beasty

Well I guess today's news warrants a change to the thread title, which I have just done

average_runner

JDD wrote: »

In fairness, the phrasing is pretty inflammatory. But I don't think it is an unreasonable viewpoint to say "okay, we accept schools have to close. Online learning will start, but despite the fact that it is just as time intensive (if not more so) for the teachers, we can all accept that it is poor substitute for in classroom teaching. We know that teachers spent September and October this year "revising" (i.e. basically teaching from scratch) what was learned during the first lockdown, with the knock on effect that children are still behind on their curriculum for this year. That's without this second closure, so children are going to get even further behind. Is there an argument to extend the school year over the mid term or summer holidays, in the interests of our children's education?".

Of course some teachers may say "feck no. I'm exhausted in a normal year, and add in the stress of in person teaching in an unsafe environment and the hours preparing online learning while also homeschooling and minding my own children means I deserve every day of those holidays".

That's not unreasonable either.

Some teachers, who don't have children (or even who do) may say "y'know what, if everyone was doing it I'd do it too. For this year only. I want the kids to catch up, I'll still get 6/8 weeks of holidays, and I do think it's in the best interests of the kids". You'd have to be pretty altruistic to say this - but I'm going to say this - lots of teachers are.

In primary school, the first two months are always a revision on the year before.


Actually and I didn't know this till kids went to school.
4th class is practically a revision of 3rd class,
2nd class is practically a revision of 1st class.
It's a way of cementing the ways into the kids

Leftwaffe

soso02 wrote: »

So student nurses working in covid wards may continue their placement but schools, which have shown themselves to be low risk environments, are closed.

Why the overprotection of teachers once again ?

Online learning is a cop out with most teachers working half the hours they would ordinarily. Write off the month of January and make teachers work the month of June. There is no other acceptable way to do this.

You really dislike teachers, it’s odd. If you could put that aside for one moment and actually have a think about why schools are closing, your rage about the situation might subside.

History Queen

soso02 wrote: »

I remember back in April 2020, teachers were asked to forgo two weeks of their summer holidays to provide tuition to leaving cert students.

Some teachers on here had the audacity to complain about being made work a couple of hours without pay.
You couldn't make it up.

But u just did

alroley

scouserstation wrote: »

Teachers were complaining about going to work back in September when we only had a couple of hundred cases a day, while it may be justifiable now it don't think it was back then and any closing of schools should be carefully considered going forward

That's a pretty big blanket statement. I recall teachers asking for better safety measures in school. Is that the complaining you are talking about? Pretty bad on you to be giving out about people wanting a safer work environment.

Whether you like it or not - teachers want to be in school, but they want to be safe. Online learning is much more difficult and time-consuming.

Beasty

scouserstation wrote: »

I often wonder would the teachers be so trigger happy to keep schools closed if they had to go onto the PUP or if they had to forgo some of their holiday allowances in exchange for time taken in January

Quit the trolling or you will have your posting privileges removed

scouserstation

average_runner wrote: »

As a parent it is our duty to ensure the kids aren't bored and are productive also.

Not all parents share this view unfortunately and inevitably some kids will end up getting bored with nothing to do but hang around with their mates getting up to all sorts, it happened during the last school closure, why do we think it will be different this time?

BonsaiKitten

JDD wrote: »

In fairness, the phrasing is pretty inflammatory. But I don't think it is an unreasonable viewpoint to say "okay, we accept schools have to close. Online learning will start, but despite the fact that it is just as time intensive (if not more so) for the teachers, we can all accept that it is poor substitute for in classroom teaching. We know that teachers spent September and October this year "revising" (i.e. basically teaching from scratch) what was learned during the first lockdown, with the knock on effect that children are still behind on their curriculum for this year. That's without this second closure, so children are going to get even further behind. Is there an argument to extend the school year over the mid term or summer holidays, in the interests of our children's education?".

Of course some teachers may say "feck no. I'm exhausted in a normal year, and add in the stress of in person teaching in an unsafe environment and the hours preparing online learning while also homeschooling and minding my own children means I deserve every day of those holidays".

That's not unreasonable either.

Some teachers, who don't have children (or even who do) may say "y'know what, if everyone was doing it I'd do it too. For this year only. I want the kids to catch up, I'll still get 6/8 weeks of holidays, and I do think it's in the best interests of the kids". You'd have to be pretty altruistic to say this - but I'm going to say this - lots of teachers are.

I don't disagree with any of these points but what do the catch-up sessions look like then? Let's say half the teachers in a school opt in and it's additional paid work. Are we doubling the class sizes to 50 or 60 in order to accommodate everyone?

I'm not trying to tear you down here as I think you have good points, just trying to piece it together for myself. Personally after seeing the clusterfcuk that is July provision and how teachers get screwed out of pay (or taxed to the hilt), I wouldn't be opting into summer work. Altruism or no altruism - I don't have faith in the government to make it worth my while.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

In primary school, the first two months are always a revision on the year before.


Actually and I didn't know this till kids went to school.
4th class is practically a revision of 3rd class,
2nd class is practically a revision of 1st class.
It's a way of cementing the ways into the kids

Building blocks, foundations and all that jazz.
Revision, progression, revision, progression and rinse repeat.

JDD

scouserstation wrote: »

Teachers were complaining about going to work back in September when we only had a couple of hundred cases a day, while it may be justifiable now it don't think it was back then and any closing of schools should be carefully considered going forward

I think it has been carefully considered.

Lots of EU countries had part time opening of schools in September. Our government said no to that, and opened them fully.

Cases were going up during the October mid term break. There was lots of discussion about extending the break by a week, or even closing until christmas. The government said no to that.

Then when the second lockdown didn't work as well as it should have, and Christmas holidays were coming up, there was lots of discussion about closing the schools early for Christmas. The government said no to that.

Now that we are in a spiralling s**tshow no one could have predicted, they have decided to close the schools for a month.

It's hardly trigger happy now is it?

lulublue22

average_runner wrote: »

In primary school, the first two months are always a revision on the year before.


Actually and I didn't know this till kids went to school.
4th class is practically a revision of 3rd class,
2nd class is practically a revision of 1st class.
It's a way of cementing the ways into the kids

It’s a spiral curriculum - JI introduces concepts SI revise and extend concepts 1st class big jump new concepts introduced / 2nd revise and extend 3rd class big jump introduce concepts 4th extend and revise. etc

alroley

scouserstation wrote: »

Not all parents share this view unfortunately and inevitably some kids will end up getting bored with nothing to do but hang around with their mates getting up to all sorts, it happened during the last school closure, why do we think it will be different this time?

Your views are so odd.

Parents not parenting their kids: oh well! It happens! The school needs to keep the kids entertained.

Teachers wanting safe work environments: BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!!

helpful

scouserstation wrote: »

Yes I do have an agenda as I think the last school closure affected a lot of kids badly, causing mental health problems, a lot of undue stress, special needs children regressing, youths bored at home with nothing to do etc so I don't think we should be so quick to close them down or go online if that even works out, and teachers constantly angling for school closures doesn't help your case

It also affected a lot of teachers badly. I know you know it wasn’t the teachers choice to close the schools so I’m not sure what you expect them to do. As has been seen on this thread alone people want different things from homeschooling. Some want live lessons some want a video once a week teachers can’t win.
I also don’t think it’s a teachers job to entertain children at home maybe they should learn how to do that for themselves like the rest of us have to do.
Nobody wants more time off as has been said many times before teaching from home is much harder and more time consuming than going to school.

average_runner

lulublue22 wrote: »

It’s a spiral curriculum - JI introduces concepts SI revise and extend concepts 1st class big jump new concepts introduced / 2nd revise and extend etc etc

It wasn't a criticism, just interesting to hear about it and makes sense.

glack

scouserstation wrote: »

Yes but teachers have been complaining about going to work since September claiming their working in an unsafe environment even when case numbers were not that high, all other sectors were happy to get back to work, unfortunately covid is a part of life now and a lot of workplaces have to deal with it, just be thankful youl be getting full pay while your off work

We won’t be off work though. We’ll be working from home. Like half the country.

And if not, if we are not required to work, I’d be happy enough on the PUP like everyone else who is out of work.

soso02

JDD wrote: »

So you're saying nurses shouldn't go to work, because teachers are not physically teaching in a classroom?? That seems...odd. Are you advocating for student nurses to stay home and not do their placements? Would you feel better about your son or daughter doing their nurse placement as long as the teacher around the corner is in a classroom?

Idle children sounds like something from the 1900's. Do you think they'll all be playing nik nok on doors and stealing apples from the grocers cart?

It is infuriating to see people just out of school working tirelessly in hospitals under the guise of education. What's more is college students pay for this "privilege".

I know first hand what online school is like. The vast majority of teachers are ill prepared and refuse to engage with the latest technologies.

When everyone else has compromised, teachers have looked after themselves.

Give the teachers 100 euros a week and see how long they last.

lulublue22

average_runner wrote: »

It wasn't a criticism, just interesting to hear about it and makes sense.

I knew that was just clarifying for people. I actually think it is structured very well - allows for plenty of revision and extension.

Stateofyou

scouserstation wrote: »

Teachers were complaining about going to work back in September when we only had a couple of hundred cases a day, while it may be justifiable now it don't think it was back then and any closing of schools should be carefully considered going forward

Give over. I don't recall any teachers complaining going back. A lot of parents were stressed beyond anything (including myself) due to lack of forthcoming information about reopening and how safety would be maintained. If I recall the dept of education at the last minute released a document for the schools to use to get ready, and there was not enough time to make a lot of the structural repairs/additions needed to make classrooms safer to adhere to distancing.
Every teacher on here from what I remember and the several I know in real life plus my kids teachers were delighted to be back.

I'm sure the government and NPHET are carefully considering it, nobody takes a randomer on boards seriously when you're making ridiculous proclamations of what should happen when clearly it already is. :rolleyes:

Beasty

soso02 wrote: »

It is infuriating to see people just out of school working tirelessly in hospitals under the guise of education. What's more is college students pay for this "privilege".

I know first hand what online school is like. The vast majority of teachers are ill prepared and refuse to engage with the latest technologies.

When everyone else has compromised, teachers have looked after themselves.

Give the teachers 100 euros a week and see how long they last.

Do not post in this thread again

alroley

soso02 wrote: »

It is infuriating to see people just out of school working tirelessly in hospitals under the guise of education. What's more is college students pay for this "privilege".

I know first hand what online school is like. The vast majority of teachers are ill prepared and refuse to engage with the latest technologies.

When everyone else has compromised, teachers have looked after themselves.

Give the teachers 100 euros a week and see how long they last.

You know student teachers teach whole classes for school terms unpaid?

Why are you comparing fully qualified teachers and student nurses?
Should you not be comparing students with students?

(For what it's worth I think if student nurses are carrying out anything more than observation then they should be paid)

khalessi

soso02 wrote: »

It is infuriating to see people just out of school working tirelessly in hospitals under the guise of education. What's more is college students pay for this "privilege".

I know first hand what online school is like. The vast majority of teachers are ill prepared and refuse to engage with the latest technologies.

When everyone else has compromised, teachers have looked after themselves.

Give the teachers 100 euros a week and see how long they last.

Have you worked on the wards? Have you emailed your TD since the nursing students were told they are only getting 2.85 an hour? I have.

soso02

alroley wrote: »

Our hospitals are quickly reaching capacity.

The health service operates at full capacity every Winter. Winter 2020/21 has seen the fewest hospital admissions since time immemorial.

Where was the concern last year ?

soso02

History Queen wrote: »

If you believe half of what you spout i have concerns for you

Do you not agree that student health care workers, the very people you taught last year, are in grave danger.

Teachers receive disproportionate attention to deflect from the government's failure to protect these people.

Teachers were safe. I know of no one in my locality who contracted covid in a school setting. This speaks for itself.

khalessi

soso02 wrote: »

The health service operates at full capacity every Winter. Winter 2020/21 has seen the fewest hospital admissions since time immemorial.

Where was the concern last year ?

Well time immemorial, I was on the wards for most of those winters where where you?

soso02

khalessi wrote: »

Well time immemorial, I was on the wards for most of those winters where where you?

In school.

khalessi

soso02 wrote: »

In school.

Qualified Nurse. Mostly spent on night duty reopening closed wards taking patients who were overflowing from A/e

So where were you again?

Leftwaffe

soso02 wrote: »

It is infuriating to see people just out of school working tirelessly in hospitals under the guise of education. What's more is college students pay for this "privilege".

I know first hand what online school is like. The vast majority of teachers are ill prepared and refuse to engage with the latest technologies.

When everyone else has compromised, teachers have looked after themselves.

Give the teachers 100 euros a week and see how long they last.

These are outrageous comments. Totally unfounded. Sweeping generalisations.

soso02

People fail to acknowledge that there were likely thousands more cases/day in February/March, unbeknownst to teachers.

You'd wonder were it not for the NPHET briefings would people know a virus was among us ?

Icyseanfitz

I love people that are still harping on about how we all want schools closed and to be off (even if we arnt), yet they could go back to july/august on this thread alone and find near everyone of us that work in schools advocating for the government to pull their ****ing fingers out and to get a workable reduced number/hybrid plan (which most other countries seemed to be bothered doing) in action so that schools could stay opened if things got worse, while also stopping things from getting worse. Idiots.