Schools closed until February? (part 3)

jimmytwotimes 2013

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In a rational world, reduced workload entails reduced pay.

Who's going to be working less?

khalessi

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

It may not line up with the agenda on here but it is a rational expectation.
Teachers can no longer claim to be frontline.

We never said we were frontline, Micheal and Norma did because the previous government promised childcare to frontline workers and ****ed it up so this time around, they referred to us as frontline workers to get the childminding done.

wirelessdude01

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Colm O"Rourke agreeing with the ASTI on Claire Byrne saying that schools should be fully shut.

Also any else hear Dara O'brien on the same programme? He was an utter a$$,. Similar to Norma on Drive time yesterday, he wouldn't answer the questions he was asked spand actually was quite condescending.

Follow_ur_lead

jrosen wrote: »

There is nothing “wrong” with any student but not all students are capable of working at home to their full ability. Some need and require the structure and guidance of the classroom.

Ok so just as a comparison. Hundreds of Gardai are currently out due to Covid. They actually have it and not the threat of it. We're not calling for AGS to be shutdown are we? No, because they are frontline.
I fully sympathise and understand what is being asked of teachers and see how difficult it is. 6th years and special needs schools need to remain open though.

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In a rational world, reduced workload entails reduced pay. Teachers (with the exception of those returning to the classroom to teach Leaving Certs) are not going to receive a huge amount of sympathy throughout the month of January. Those thrust on partial salary or PUP rightly feeling aggrieved by the soft landing of certain entitled public servants reluctant to engage in the online medium. Time for these individuals to take responsibility and stop whining, considering their privileged position compared to many other sectors of society at present.

But teachers are still teaching other classes. How is workload reduced? It is increased teaching online.

tom1ie

whatever about secondary school teachers being in school and only having a class for a reduced time, surely it is worse on primary school teachers who would be interacting with children wearing no PPE for 6+ hours a day no?

Sammy2012

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Colm O"Rourke agreeing with the ASTI on Claire Byrne saying that schools should be fully shut.

Also any else hear Dara O'brien on the same programme? He was an utter a$$,. Similar to Norma on Drive time yesterday, he wouldn't answer the questions he was asked spand actually was quite condescending.

I did and to be fair to him he acknowledged that he didn't usually agree with the unions.

He sounded like a jumped up little ****. Did you hear Philip sigh when he wouldn't answer the question after being asked the same question 3 times.

penny piper

jrosen wrote: »

There is nothing “wrong” with any student but not all students are capable of working at home to their full ability. Some need and require the structure and guidance of the classroom.

I'd say the majority outweighs the minority there....and since we are in a pandemic ...and not in "normal times" situations need to be adapted...If it's safer for teachers/students to work from home so be it....

History Queen

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

Ok so just as a comparison. Hundreds of Gardai are currently out due to Covid. They actually have it and not the threat of it. We're not calling for AGS to be shutdown are we? No, because they are frontline.
I fully sympathise and understand what is being asked of teachers and see how difficult it is. 6th years and special needs schools need to remain open though.

I'm conflicted about 6th years (I'm not sure about special schools or classes as I neither teach in one nor have a close relationship with a student of one). On one hand I'd imagine most teachers would agree that as much normality as possible is necessary for students if we expect them to sit exams.on the other hand is it fair to put students in impossible situations? I have tqo cousins doing the LC this year. One is thrilled to be back Monday the other rang me wanting to know "is it really safe?" As her father and sister have underlying conditions. If she decides to stay home she will potentially miss 3 days tuition a week for the duration of this. That's not fair either. So we are prioritising students without underlying conditions or family members with underlying conditions ahead of all else. Is this reasonable? I'm not sure.

jimmytwotimes 2013

tom1ie wrote: »

whatever about secondary school teachers being in school and only having a class for a reduced time, surely it is worse on primary school teachers who would be interacting with children wearing no PPE for 6+ hours a day no?

What? Primary is closed and even when open they interact with a fraction of the number of students a 2nd level teacher meets daily.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

In a rational world, reduced workload entails reduced pay. Teachers (with the exception of those returning to the classroom to teach Leaving Certs) are not going to receive a huge amount of sympathy throughout the month of January. Those thrust on partial salary or PUP rightly feeling aggrieved by the soft landing of certain entitled public servants reluctant to engage in the online medium. Time for these individuals to take responsibility and stop whining, considering their relatively privileged position compared to many other sectors of society at present.

Whats new? I have been on this site since the early 2000s and teachers have been bashed to ****. Meanwhile we educate your children and call out when we see something as dangerous, you're welcome

penny piper

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

Ok so just as a comparison. Hundreds of Gardai are currently out due to Covid. They actually have it and not the threat of it. We're not calling for AGS to be shutdown are we? No, because they are frontline.
I fully sympathise and understand what is being asked of teachers and see how difficult it is. 6th years and special needs schools need to remain open though.

Don't you understand you can't compare professions like this ....Teaching can go online.....Gards...nurses...etc can't ....

the kelt

Quick question

Is there any provision for parents who aren’t comfortable sending kids to schools 3 days a week during ye know the worst pandemic to hit in like 100 years.

A neighbour of mine was fretting when speaking to them this morning, his elderly father lives with them, would be of ill health generally but his son is Doug his leaving cert.

He doesn’t want his kid out and about mixing etc but at the same time doesn’t want his son to fall behind missing 3 days of schools.

Any provisions?

History Queen

the kelt wrote: »

Quick question

Is there any provision for parents who aren’t comfortable sending kids to schools 3 days a week during ye know the worst pandemic to hit in like 100 years.

A neighbour of mine was fretting when speaking to them this morning, his elderly father lives with them, would be of ill health generally but his son is Doug his leaving cert.

He doesn’t want his kid out and about mixing etc but at the same time doesn’t want his son to fall behind missing 3 days of schools.

Any provisions?

Not as far as I'm aware.

Follow_ur_lead

penny piper wrote: »

Don't you understand you can't compare professions like this ....Teaching can go online.....Gards...nurses...etc can't ....

Online hasnt worked though? Maybe for the top end students but not everyone.

I'd imagine in disadvantaged areas it has been a disaster too.

Its not a good substitue for children who need the regularised setting of a classroom. Especially 6th years where the next 5 years or their lives can depend on the LC.

...Ghost...

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

From reading this thread it's apparent teachers don't want to provide any support for the kids. Remote learning for the best part is a disaster. I fully understand and agree that from 1st to 5th year kids should be kept off.

6th years should be brought back though. With the schools less populated it will be safer. Teachers want all out or nothing though.

I actually have sympathy for the minister.

I'll bite, because some people actually think this way and believe such nonsense.

Setting aside the "good and bad apples in every sector", my OH has been a teacher for well over a decade and works harder than anyone I know, sometimes resulting in problems at home because she takes her work so seriously and does everything possible for every student in her care....even the ones I would consider lost causes and not deserving of help.

The thought of being stuck at home, out of the classroom is causing her considerable stress. She wants to be in the class teaching and recognises that online teaching for second level children is far from ideal. The government have made exactly zero progress on this level and it's a damned disgrace when they have had nearly a year to cobble something together as a back-up remote learning plan. And now we are left with some bastardised concoction of having 6th year students in 3 days per week....in the same tiny classrooms and teachers are expected to manage online classes where in the majority of cases they do not have the equipment, or internet access to do so.

Teachers want to support their pupils. Those who don't are a waste of space and are self centred drains on our resources. However, Teachers also want to work in an environment which is safe for them and their students. It's hardly unreasonable to be questioning the safety with cases yesterday teetering on 8,000. It's not surprising Teachers don't trust the minister when she is incapable of answering a single question honestly. Did you listen to the drive time interview? A disgrace she was. If you have sympathy for the minister after listening to her lies, then I have sympathy for you, because any sane and reasonable person would have their blood boiling after hearing her waffle.

Mrsmum

penny piper wrote: »

One of my children was in ucd at !7 and was well able to cope in College...what's wrong with these students at the same age researching/working remotely?
If it's not beneficial for the whole student population to be in attendance...surely it's even better for this period of time that there is no students/teachers in school.....you have to protect teachers/students...
I actually don't understand why the English, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland seem to differ so much on the Irish Government's strange stance...we do have the new strain of virus here......
It beggars belief that you could have sympathy on Ms.Foley....

I was at UCD at 17, living away from home and my 18 year old LC son would have no problems at UCD now imo. That's not the difference. The biggest problem I think for the current LC class, just like last year, is the uncertainty. My son said to me this morning did I think it would be a good use of his time to study oral Irish stuff today. Would the orals be happening or pulled like last year. Who knows. It's not very motivating studying in those conditions. Even the three day thing, he is happy going in for three days, actually he'd accept any situation but just to know what the end game is. And the kids are like bloodhounds, when they get a sniff of half a chance LC mightn't happen, they all pile in looking for that whether it's in their best interests of not. Again that's very unsettling.Your children were very lucky they did the LC when they did and not in the middle of this mess.

the corpo

the kelt wrote: »

Quick question

Is there any provision for parents who aren’t comfortable sending kids to schools 3 days a week during ye know the worst pandemic to hit in like 100 years.

A neighbour of mine was fretting when speaking to them this morning, his elderly father lives with them, would be of ill health generally but his son is Doug his leaving cert.

He doesn’t want his kid out and about mixing etc but at the same time doesn’t want his son to fall behind missing 3 days of schools.

Any provisions?

I imagine it will be the same as the first return, something like the school is obliged to notify Tusla after 20 days absence, and you then have to decide whether you're home schooling and giving up the place in the school.

And the school will not be permitted to provide you with learning materials, you need to figure that out on your tod if you're choosing not to send them in.

khalessi

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

Online hasnt worked though? Maybe for the top end students but not everyone.

I'd imagine in disadvantaged areas it has been a disaster too.

Its not a good substitue for children who need the regularised setting of a classroom. Especially 6th years where the next 5 years or their lives can depend on the LC.

The next 5 years of their lives can be approached from a number of directions

J Mysterio

the kelt wrote: »

Quick question

Is there any provision for parents who aren’t comfortable sending kids to schools 3 days a week during ye know the worst pandemic to hit in like 100 years.

A neighbour of mine was fretting when speaking to them this morning, his elderly father lives with them, would be of ill health generally but his son is Doug his leaving cert.

He doesn’t want his kid out and about mixing etc but at the same time doesn’t want his son to fall behind missing 3 days of schools.

Any provisions?

This is it. The plan is tremendously irresponsible and completely daft. Foley should resign. I hope the teaching unions refuse to go in for this. I see one school in Dublin is to 'defy government'

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/dublin-school-to-defy-government-request-to-reopen-for-leaving-cert-students-1.4452315?mode=amp

J Mysterio

Foley, when asked in an interview about childcare provisions for teachers, said they may form a bubble with another family for childcare. Great, so - if that is even possible - the spread is furthered there then too. Who would be available? The elderly?

facehugger99

khalessi wrote: »

Whats new? I have been on this site since the early 2000s and teachers have been bashed to ****. Meanwhile we educate your children and call out when we see something as dangerous, you're welcome

This is your job and you're being paid for it. You're welcome.

Most primary teachers are doing fcuk all at the moment and are on full pay - not a single piece of correspondence from my kid's school, but I presume, like yourself during the last lockdown, they're all working 16hours days doing 'something'.

Icyseanfitz

Over 1000 in hospital now with covid, but its okay to head to school next week with 150 other individuals

richardw001

iguana wrote: »

As a parent, I'd be really opposed to this, tbh. Whether or not we expect our kids to do schoolwork during this time, this isn't holidays for them. This is a time where they are living very limited versions of their normal lives and they have to cope with a stress few adults today have ever experienced in their childhood. If by the time summer comes things are quite normal and safe, I want to be able to let my child relax and let loose. And while I have an only child I worry about his social development out of school, realistically, school is not a place where children can truly relax and let loose. Where they can run off their energy and truly let go of the tensions they are experiencing now.

I can't wait for my son to get back to school and live his normal life. Doubly so as he was in the process of changing school and should have had his first day in his new school yesterday. But not at the expense of his normal summer. Not at the expense of him getting to get back to all his absolute favourite parts of life. Not at the expense of getting to visit extended family in other parts of the country. Proper holidays are essential for children's mental health every bit as much as having safe schools to go to.

Those are reasonable comments - I know my suggestion is not ideal - more like trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The alternative is trying to do remote learning and homeschooling with kids over the next 2 months - where there is no real help/support from the Department of education.

This means stress to Kids, Parents, and Teachers - with some kids missing out completely on any learning.

Having teachers and all students back in a safe environment with vaccines available and where Teachers can do their job as normal (albeit over the summer months) seems preferable to me.

History Queen

facehugger99 wrote: »

This is your job and you're being paid for it. You're welcome.

Most primary teachers are doing fcuk all at the moment and are on full pay - not a single piece of correspondence from my kid's school, but I presume, like yourself during the last lockdown, they're all working 16hours days doing 'something'.

Did you miss the memo about the school holidays being extended?

Icyseanfitz

facehugger99 wrote: »

This is your job and you're being paid for it. You're welcome.

Most primary teachers are doing fcuk all at the moment and are on full pay - not a single piece of correspondence from my kid's school, but I presume, like yourself during the last lockdown, they're all working 16hours days doing 'something'.

Oh be quite

wirelessdude01

facehugger99 wrote: »

This is your job and you're being paid for it. You're welcome.

Most primary teachers are doing fcuk all at the moment and are on full pay - not a single piece of correspondence from my kid's school, but I presume, like yourself during the last lockdown, they're all working 16hours days doing 'something'.

You obviously aren't a parent in my school so. Thank god with an attitude like this.

Benimar

facehugger99 wrote: »

This is your job and you're being paid for it. You're welcome.

Most primary teachers are doing fcuk all at the moment and are on full pay - not a single piece of correspondence from my kid's school, but I presume, like yourself during the last lockdown, they're all working 16hours days doing 'something'.

You are aware that all Primary Schools are on holidays until next monday, as directed by the Government?

CapriciousOne

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

What? Primary is closed and even when open they interact with a fraction of the number of students a 2nd level teacher meets daily.

Quite a sizeable portion of kids in special schools are incapable of wearing masks. Teachers and SNAs in these schools will have zero protection plus a greater interaction with these kids that require help eating, going to the toilet, etc. This is something that's being overlooked.

scouserstation

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

From reading this thread it's apparent teachers don't want to provide any support for the kids. Remote learning for the best part is a disaster. I fully understand and agree that from 1st to 5th year kids should be kept off.

6th years should be brought back though. With the schools less populated it will be safer. Teachers want all out or nothing though.

I actually have sympathy for the minister.

Teachers have lost a lot of respect in my book reading through some of these comments and seeing them throw their toys out of the pram is an embarrassment, I came accross one post calling minister Norma Foley a troll, real mature stuff, its not like they are being asked to go onto the front line and face this virus head on, at a time when other professions are really stepping up to the mark and doing the right thing, teachers will go down in history as letting their country down