Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Icyseanfitz

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Quite a sizeable portion of kids in special schools are incapable of wearing masks. Teachers and SNAs in these schools will have zero protection plus a greater interaction with these kids that require help eating, going to the toilet, etc. This is something that's being overlooked.

And thats not even to mention that a lot of those kids have conditions that would leave them far more susceptible to covid

History Queen

scouserstation wrote: »

Teachers have lost a lot of respect in my book reading through some of these comments and seeing them throw their toys out of the pram is an embarrassment, I came accross one post calling minister Norma Foley a troll, real mature stuff, its not like they are being asked to go onto the front line and face this virus head on, at a time when other professions are really stepping up to the mark and doing the right thing, teachers will go down in history as letting their country down

Looking out for the health of themselves, their students and the wider community... how unreasonable ...

...Ghost...

...Ghost... wrote: »

I'll bite, because some people actually think this way and believe such nonsense.

Setting aside the "good and bad apples in every sector", my OH has been a teacher for well over a decade and works harder than anyone I know, sometimes resulting in problems at home because she takes her work so seriously and does everything possible for every student in her care....even the ones I would consider lost causes and not deserving of help.

The thought of being stuck at home, out of the classroom is causing her considerable stress. She wants to be in the class teaching and recognises that online teaching for second level children is far from ideal. The government have made exactly zero progress on this level and it's a damned disgrace when they have had nearly a year to cobble something together as a back-up remote learning plan. And now we are left with some bastardised concoction of having 6th year students in 3 days per week....in the same tiny classrooms and teachers are expected to manage online classes where in the majority of cases they do not have the equipment, or internet access to do so.

Teachers want to support their pupils. Those who don't are a waste of space and are self centred drains on our resources. However, Teachers also want to work in an environment which is safe for them and their students. It's hardly unreasonable to be questioning the safety with cases yesterday teetering on 8,000. It's not surprising Teachers don't trust the minister when she is incapable of answering a single question honestly. Did you listen to the drive time interview? A disgrace she was. If you have sympathy for the minister after listening to her lies, then I have sympathy for you, because any sane and reasonable person would have their blood boiling after hearing her waffle.

Very well said. Any time a teacher questions the safety of the class or school environment, they are accused of refusing to work or threatening not to work. It's why I wish the unions would sometimes keep their counsel as whenever they do make a public statement about risks, I get smart comments and inevitable messages from people asking why I don't want to work. I've long since stopped reading comment sections online.

The teachers I work with all considered it a great relief and privilege to be working from September to Christmas while also expressing some nerves and anxiety at times.

Icyseanfitz

scouserstation wrote: »

Teachers have lost a lot of respect in my book reading through some of these comments and seeing them throw their toys out of the pram is an embarrassment, I came accross one post calling minister Norma Foley a troll, real mature stuff, its not like they are being asked to go onto the front line and face this virus head on, at a time when other professions are really stepping up to the mark and doing the right thing, teachers will go down in history as letting their country down

..... That is exactly what they have been doing, and have been told to continue doing at the single most dangerous point of this pandemic.

jimmytwotimes 2013

facehugger99 wrote: »

Most primary teachers are doing fcuk all at the moment and are on full pay - not a single piece of correspondence from my kid's school, but I presume, like yourself during the last lockdown, they're all working 16hours days doing 'something'.

Schools are closed til Monday. You're welcome

Mrsmum

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

Online hasnt worked though? Maybe for the top end students but not everyone.

I'd imagine in disadvantaged areas it has been a disaster too.

Its not a good substitue for children who need the regularised setting of a classroom. Especially 6th years where the next 5 years or their lives can depend on the LC.

I totally agree with you except you have to balance the truth of what you are saying with the dangerous level of Covid spread at the moment.

Follow_ur_lead

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Quite a sizeable portion of kids in special schools are incapable of wearing masks. Teachers and SNAs in these schools will have zero protection plus a greater interaction with these kids that require help eating, going to the toilet, etc. This is something that's being overlooked.

The SNAs will have PPE.

The regression of special needs kids far outweighs the risk of covid at their age.

That I know is a selfish statement but that seems to be the order of the day on here.

scouserstation

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

..... That is exactly what they have been doing, and have been told to continue doing at the single most dangerous point of this pandemic.

If you want to see what it's like to work on the front line spend a day in the life of an icu doctor, nurse, porter, ambulance driver then you might understand what stepping up to the plate means

am_zarathustra

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

Online hasnt worked though? Maybe for the top end students but not everyone.

I'd imagine in disadvantaged areas it has been a disaster too.

Its not a good substitue for children who need the regularised setting of a classroom. Especially 6th years where the next 5 years or their lives can depend on the LC.

The kids won't come in. We had a few 6th years opting out when rates increased even in October as they live with vunerable people or have their own health concerns. All this is doing is ensuring students lucky enough to have young parents, one of whom is at home to look after younger siblings, with no underlying conditions of their own with their own room and space so they can isolate will be further disadvantaged by this plan. I have a student with each of these issues, some with a smattering of them all in all my LC classes. If you want an even playing field you might want to actually talk to someone who works in a disadvantaged school as opposed to working off your own opinions with nothing to back it up, not even your own experience.

khalessi

scouserstation wrote: »

If you want to see what it's like to work on the front line spend a day in the life of an icu doctor, nurse, porter, ambulance driver then you might understand what stepping up to the plate means

Ah yes indeed, have you?

Follow_ur_lead

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The kids won't come in. We had a few 6th years opting out when rates increased even in October as they live with vunerable people or have their own health concerns. All this is doing is ensuring students lucky enough to have young parents, one of whom is at home to look after younger siblings, with no underlying conditions of their own with their own room and space so they can isolate will be further disadvantaged by this plan. I have a student with each of these issues, some with a smattering of them all in all my LC classes. If you want an even playing field you might want to actually talk to someone who works in a disadvantaged school as opposed to working off your own opinions with nothing to back it up, not even your own experience.

Son in special school.

Try harder.

jimmytwotimes 2013

scouserstation wrote: »

If you want to see what it's like to work on the front line spend a day in the life of an icu doctor, nurse, porter, ambulance driver then you might understand what stepping up to the plate means

Been to a school to see what work has been done since this all started?

Moody_mona

scouserstation wrote: »

If you want to see what it's like to work on the front line spend a day in the life of an icu doctor, nurse, porter, ambulance driver then you might understand what stepping up to the plate means

Teachers working from home will make the lives of ICU doctors, nurses, porters ambulances drivers BETTER. Staying at home leads to less transmissions and less hospitalisations.

penny piper

Mrsmum wrote: »

I was at UCD at 17, living away from home and my 18 year old LC son would have no problems at UCD now imo. That's not the difference. The biggest problem I think for the current LC class, just like last year, is the uncertainty. My son said to me this morning did I think it would be a good use of his time to study oral Irish stuff today. Would the orals be happening or pulled like last year. Who knows. It's not very motivating studying in those conditions. Even the three day thing, he is happy going in for three days, actually he'd accept any situation but just to know what the end game is. And the kids are like bloodhounds, when they get a sniff of half a chance LC mightn't happen, they all pile in looking for that whether it's in their best interests of not. Your children were very lucky they did the LC when they did and not in the middle of this mess.

I agree that it is a very difficult time for any LC class student...but at the same time....what is the priority keeping children/teachers safe at home ..learning/reserching remotely? or into what I should imagine will be an equally stressful situation of returning to school with a rampant new strain of virus..
We have such an indecisive government...The English/Scottish/Northern Irish have all made decisions on education./exams..but Norma Foley and Micheal Martin seem intent on promising something they aren't even sure can happen ie
Leaving Cert...

Bananaleaf

scouserstation wrote: »

teachers will go down in history as letting their country down

No, they won't.

Icyseanfitz

khalessi wrote: »

Ah yes indeed, have you?

Haven't you heard, unless you catch covid and lose the function of your lungs, you haven't stepped up to the plate.

Wesekn.

Who announced this about the lc students going back

There's no way it's feasible

KrustyUCC

Sammy2012 wrote: »

But the same number of kids will still be in a classroom together. They are not going to split up classes. So they will be having the same classes, in the same rooms, for the same length of time.

I understand that remote learning isn't ideal but there is a national emergency going on.

Why not?

You have plenty of empty classrooms now?

My former secondary school is talking about splitting classes as my best friend works there now

You bring classes in on different days

Teach half in person one week half in person next week

Lecture online for the other half

Get other teachers in subjects to teach non exam years

Is that ideal?

No absolutely not

Is it very tough logistically?

Yes it is

Can it work short term?

I think it could

jimmytwotimes 2013

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Why not?

You have plenty of empty classrooms now?

My former secondary school is talking about splitting classes as my best friend works there now

You bring classes in on different days

Teach half in person one week half in person next week

Lecture online for the other half

Get other teachers in subjects to teach non exam years

Is that ideal?

No absolutely not

Is it very tough logistically?

Yes it is

Can it work short term?

I think it could

Every teacher already has a full timetable with classes allocated to each. You want to start splitting them and sharing them but everyone still gets taught.

Loaves and fishes stuff here

SpacialNeeds

Sinead Donohue (@sinead_donohue) Tweeted:
At this stage we 💯 must focus on settings where risk of morbidity & mortality is highest. If schools reopen for LC students there is no guarantee that we will be able to do any public health risk assessments in these settings @NormaFoleyTD1 @DonnellyStephen https://twitter.com/sinead_donohue/status/1347147286581800981?s=20

I just can't see this going ahead.

Bananaleaf

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Why not?

You have plenty of empty classrooms now?

My former secondary school is talking about splitting classes as my best friend works there now

You bring classes in on different days

Teach half in person one week half in person next week

Lecture online for the other half

Get other teachers in subjects to teach non exam years

Is that ideal?

No absolutely not

Is it very tough logistically?

Yes it is

Can it work short term?

I think it could

How can that work? I don't understand at all. Other teachers in subjects to teach non exam years .... what does that mean?

History Queen

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Why not?

You have plenty of empty classrooms now?

My former secondary school is talking about splitting classes as my best friend works there now

You bring classes in on different days

Teach half in person one week half in person next week

Lecture online for the other half

Get other teachers in subjects to teach non exam years

Is that ideal?

No absolutely not

Is it very tough logistically?

Yes it is

Can it work short term?

I think it could

Can I get some more detail on how this is working please? I think half in half out is a good solution covid wise but then students only get half the contact time. Is this acceptable to people? I would have thought students would prefer full contact time albeit online. All teachers have to teach all their classes. It isn't a case that LC teachers will only be teaching LC students.

Icyseanfitz

SpacialNeeds wrote: »

Sinead Donohue (@sinead_donohue) Tweeted:
At this stage we �� must focus on settings where risk of morbidity & mortality is highest. If schools reopen for LC students there is no guarantee that we will be able to do any public health risk assessments in these settings @NormaFoleyTD1 @DonnellyStephen https://twitter.com/sinead_donohue/status/1347147286581800981?s=20

I just can't see this going ahead.

So they cannot even assess the safety of schools, ffs

lulublue22

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

Son in special school.

Try harder.

You want your son accommodated by being in a face 2 face setting which is perfectly fair but you don’t want to acknowledge the risks to others that this entails. That is your prerogative. Just as it is others prerogative to question the risk to themselves and their families that working in that situation entails. Transmission rates are higher in special schools than other schools. Everyone has their own perspective fuelled by their own circumstances.

KrustyUCC

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Every teacher already has a full timetable with classes allocated to each. You want to start splitting them and sharing them but everyone still gets taught.

Loaves and fishes stuff here

For example my friend is a geography teacher

He has 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th

The proposal is for the 1st and 2nd year geography students to do the online lectures from other 1st and 2nd year teachers

Is that ideal? No

But it frees up space in the day

CapriciousOne

Follow_ur_lead wrote: »

The SNAs will have PPE.

The regression of special needs kids far outweighs the risk of covid at their age.

That I know is a selfish statement but that seems to be the order of the day on here.

Is there an age limit on SNAs that I'm not aware of?

History Queen

KrustyUCC wrote: »

For example my friend is a geography teacher

He has 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th

The proposal is for the 1st and 2nd year geography students to do the online lectures from other 1st and 2nd year teachers

Is that ideal? No

But it frees up space in the day

Is this happening in a school or your personal suggestion? Maybe I'm missing something but it seems unworkable. Also lecturing is a poor methodology for 1st and 2nd years, particularly online.

JRant

Received the email from the Primary school just there and it's pretty much as expected. A generic weekly list of page numbers to be assigned to the class and work to be uploaded to Seesaw.

It'll be home schooling for the 2 months. Gonna be tough with both of us working full-time but we'll get through it again.

Just wish the DES had put even a tiny bit of effort into standardising the approach. But, in typical Irish fashion it's a shïtshow with the teaching responsibilities placed firmly on the parents again.

Going to be an interesting ride trying to juggle a 2 year old, 6 year old, home school and all while trying to WFH full-time.

Best of luck to all parents out their in a similar position.

scouserstation

scouserstation wrote: »

If you want to see what it's like to work on the front line spend a day in the life of an icu doctor, nurse, porter, ambulance driver then you might understand what stepping up to the plate means

Not having a go at anyone, but neighbour is an ambulance driver and he refused to go back to work after Christmas.

Teachers stepped up to the plate when they were asked to from September to Christmas - the repeated mantra from the experts now is that while schools are a safe environment, the movement and congregation of people in order to get kids to and from school is the issue.

As soon as schools are open again, I'll be glad to be back. In the meantime, I'll be working from home like 90 per cent of the population is at the moment.

It's not hard to understand.

Bananaleaf

KrustyUCC wrote: »

For example my friend is a geography teacher

He has 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th

The proposal is for the 1st and 2nd year geography students to do the online lectures from other 1st and 2nd year teachers

Is that ideal? No

But it frees up space in the day

Okay, I can understand why that sounds like it would work, but it can't unless every 2nd year geography class runs at the same time in your friend's school and everyone is working at the same pace, covering the same content (in all subjects, all years because it would have to be across the whole timetable and school) which maybe it does.

In larger schools it doesnt work that way at all. You have the classes on at different times, working to different ability levels and, in the cases of English for example, dealing with different prescribed materials entirely.

I see where you are coming from and that would work if education was one size fits all, generic delivery. But it's not.