Schools closed until February? (part 3)

History Queen

Barry Cowen on Newstalk now looking for education sector to be prioritised for vaccine.

Smacruairi

JDD wrote: »

Alexandra College are reportedly the school that are not opening for sixth years.

Can the DES force them to open? They're a private school - would that make a difference?

They're a voluntary secondary school. They report to the DES. Only grind schools etc are truly private. There's a difference.

Pigeon Chaser

Tippex wrote: »

Why would they be on PUP they are working from home remote classes for all students. Unless DES gets their way and LC go in but wont happen imo. They aren’t on holiday or being temporarily laid off.

OK. Of course. Thanks.

SusanC10

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

This is one of the secondary schools I was talking about in my earlier post about the secondaries defying the Government. Good on them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/alexandra-college-to-defy-government-decision-to-reopen-for-leaving-cert-students-1.4452315?mode=amp

Alexandra is a Private School. Does that make a difference do you think?

JDD

Smacruairi wrote: »

They're a voluntary secondary school. They report to the DES. Only grind schools etc are truly private. There's a difference.

Interesting.

Is there any way around this for the school? Could they open the school to pupils, but have the teacher teach via video link in the next room? If they said they were going to do that, I can't imagine many parents seeing the point of sending their child in.

Presumably parents can choose to keep their LC students at home and they will not fall foul of Tulsa? If the school was "open", but all the parents kept their LC students at home to be taught via video link, could DES do anything about that?

BonsaiKitten

SusanC10 wrote: »

Alexandra is a Private School. Does that make a difference do you think?

They're not fully private, at least some salaries are paid by the State and they are subject to Department inspection afaik. It's a ballsy move to be the first out defying the Govt.

JDD

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

They're not fully private, at least some salaries are paid by the State and they are subject to Department inspection afaik. It's a ballsy move to be the first out defying the Govt.

I went there. The principal is my old Irish teacher. She takes absolutely no sh*t from anyone. It doesn't surprise me at all that she's stuck her neck out here.

Tpcl20

This blog post goes into some detail about why LC students and Special Schools should not attend on Monday.

It cites

Your decision to reopen special schools and send in Leaving Certs and staff is misguided and dangerous. I would request that you produce concrete evidence that “schools are safe”. It seems you used data from 22nd Dec, when daily cases are 600/700. This data should now be scaled up to reflect case numbers which are more than ten times that and a variant which is between 55 and 70% more transmissible. That data will show a patently unsafe environment.

- If schools reopen for LC students there is no guarantee that we will be able to do any public health risk assessments in these settings

- Public health specialist Marie Casey has said that they are not able to track and trace workplace settings currently

- There is no online database for learning

- Vulnerable students or students with family who have underlying conditions must not be forgotten during this time

- That she did not seek advice from NPHET on the reopening of schools

- NPHET saying that the age cohort sent back in to schools (leaving certs, 17-19) are the age that are spreading as much as adults do

- That unions, teachers, parents, students were not consulted

- #WeWontGo on Twitter

- Creating more cases when the health service is overwhelmed

- Stakeholders don't want the traditional leaving cert to go ahead as planned (like Foley claims)

- LC students asking for predicted grades with the option of sitting the leaving cert

- That the health system and track and trace can’t cope

- Inadequate ventilation

- Most schools have already exhausted their heating budget

- 40% cut to the cleaning budget

- Need for HEPA filters

- More buses and protection for those on them

Surely these are not unreasonable requests.

hesaidshesaid

[
- Most schools have already exhausted their heating budget

- 40% cut to the cleaning budget

- Need for HEPA filters

- More buses and protection for those on them

Surely these are not unreasonable requests.[/QUOTE]

Is this a parent, a teacher, both?

History Queen

I really really really hope they don't capitulate and allow predicted grades.

Stateofyou

KrustyUCC wrote: »

What's different about the situation we're facing here and the UK?

I said OTHER examples besides the UK ones you posted. Jesus, comprehension much?

Furthermore, I don't think the UK has been a shining example of covid measures.

Purple Mountain

I'm a parent so sorry to high jack the thread.
In relation to 6th years being taught in school for 3 days.
Are teachers expected to stay in school the full day then and online teach from school for their other years?
I've heard that classroom based teachers have lost their classrooms so where are you all supposed to teach from?
Or will it be non real time teaching? Like posting links and work online?
It just seems like noone has thought of the logistics.

alroley

History Queen wrote: »

I really really really hope they don't capitulate and allow predicted grades.

I'd rather that than have to go into unsafe working conditions.

History Queen

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I'm a parent so sorry to high jack the thread.
In relation to 6th years being taught in school for 3 days.
Are teachers expected to stay in school the full day then and online teach from school for their other years?
I've heard that classroom based teachers have lost their classrooms so where are you all supposed to teach from?
Or will it be non real time teaching? Like posting links and work online?
It just seems like noone has thought of the logistics.

Left to individual schools to figure out

Tpcl20

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

- Most schools have already exhausted their heating budget

- 40% cut to the cleaning budget

- Need for HEPA filters

- More buses and protection for those on them

Surely these are not unreasonable requests.

Is this a parent, a teacher, both?

Both.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Fair play to you

That's an incredible achievement

Unfortunately that's not the experience of lots of kids and schools in Cork

Remote learning was next to useless

All but one special school in Cork had widespread Covid outbreaks in the last term.

History Queen

alroley wrote: »

I'd rather that than have to go into unsafe working conditions.

Shouldn't be an either or. I'm concerned about how the two are being linked.

Icyseanfitz

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I'm a parent so sorry to high jack the thread.
In relation to 6th years being taught in school for 3 days.
Are teachers expected to stay in school the full day then and online teach from school for their other years?
I've heard that classroom based teachers have lost their classrooms so where are you all supposed to teach from?
Or will it be non real time teaching? Like posting links and work online?
It just seems like noone has thought of the logistics.

The department have no plan other than school open for all children at all times. Theve no idea what they are doing at this stage

Purple Mountain

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

The department have no plan other than school open for all children at all times. Theve no idea what they are doing at this stage

As a teacher, I would have thought NF could see the logistical issues that would arise.

Stateofyou

Pleasantly surprised the journalist included all groups of people who are against this cocked up plan. Pretty good article.

"There is widespread opposition to the decision from school leaders, parents, teachers, SNAs, and students."

"This morning ASTI General Secretary Kieran Christie said his union "may take action" in relation to the Government's announcement that Leaving Cert students will return to school next week. Mr Christie said he is "not convinced" that Ms Foley has sought the "appropriate" assurances that it was safe for 61,000 students to return to school.

"He said: "The minister seems not to have asked whether it was safe to bring back 61,000 students and their teachers, and I am not convinced that there was any level of consultation with appropriate medical professionals."

He said the "consultative model" that has been used between stakeholders in education for the return to schools in light of Covid-19 "has been severely breached" when he said that unions were not aware of the Government's decision until it was announced publicly yesterday.

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said NPHET advice was not specific on the closure of schools and the decision was a Government one."

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Martin Marjoram said he is getting unprecedented levels of communication from members who feel the plan is a reckless one, and that they are being put at risk.

Mr Marjoram said the union has no confidence that the plan can be implemented safely and practically as early as next Monday.

He said a period of consultation and emergency remote teaching is needed until the country can see where it is with the levels of infection and just how far it has extended into the school community.

Now is not the time to form a consultative approach to ministerial decrees, he added.

He said it does not appear that the plan was run past public health experts before it was announced and the TUI would like this to happen."


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0107/1188191-leaving-cert-reaction/

Necro

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

Are teachers getting paid their full salary for the period of closure or do they go on PUP?

alroley wrote: »

Are people working from home paid their full salary or do they go on PUP?

Mod:

Can we not have this roundabout question every 10 pages or so please.

You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it.

wirelessdude01

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

Are teachers getting paid their full salary for the period of closure or do they go on PUP?

At least try and be original. This is boring now.

wirelessdude01

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I'm a parent so sorry to high jack the thread.
In relation to 6th years being taught in school for 3 days.
Are teachers expected to stay in school the full day then and online teach from school for their other years?
I've heard that classroom based teachers have lost their classrooms so where are you all supposed to teach from?
Or will it be non real time teaching? Like posting links and work online?
It just seems like noone has thought of the logistics.

Left to individual schools to try and sort things out.

mirrorwall14

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I'm a parent so sorry to high jack the thread.
In relation to 6th years being taught in school for 3 days.
Are teachers expected to stay in school the full day then and online teach from school for their other years?
I've heard that classroom based teachers have lost their classrooms so where are you all supposed to teach from?
Or will it be non real time teaching? Like posting links and work online?
It just seems like noone has thought of the logistics.

Our school seems to be the best although it might be etb wide. You aren’t going to be allowed stay in the school to teach the rest of your classes online. Because you know, it’s not safe.....

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Pleasantly surprised the journalist included all groups of people who are against this cocked up plan. Pretty good article.

"There is widespread opposition to the decision from school leaders, parents, teachers, SNAs, and students."

"This morning ASTI General Secretary Kieran Christie said his union "may take action" in relation to the Government's announcement that Leaving Cert students will return to school next week. Mr Christie said he is "not convinced" that Ms Foley has sought the "appropriate" assurances that it was safe for 61,000 students to return to school.

"He said: "The minister seems not to have asked whether it was safe to bring back 61,000 students and their teachers, and I am not convinced that there was any level of consultation with appropriate medical professionals."

He said the "consultative model" that has been used between stakeholders in education for the return to schools in light of Covid-19 "has been severely breached" when he said that unions were not aware of the Government's decision until it was announced publicly yesterday.

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said NPHET advice was not specific on the closure of schools and the decision was a Government one."

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Martin Marjoram said he is getting unprecedented levels of communication from members who feel the plan is a reckless one, and that they are being put at risk.

Mr Marjoram said the union has no confidence that the plan can be implemented safely and practically as early as next Monday.

He said a period of consultation and emergency remote teaching is needed until the country can see where it is with the levels of infection and just how far it has extended into the school community.

Now is not the time to form a consultative approach to ministerial decrees, he added.

He said it does not appear that the plan was run past public health experts before it was announced and the TUI would like this to happen."


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0107/1188191-leaving-cert-reaction/

they have had nine months to plan for this and they have failed to do so.

We are in the fortunate position of being able to send our daughter to a very well resourced private school, where they have been utilising google classroom since March, with great effect. In fact, the way the school has handled the entire pandemic has been superb, especially when you factor in the added complications of also being a boarding school with a number of overseas students.

This hybrid type solution they are being asked to do at the moment will cause them ten times more problems than being either fully open or fully closed.

The government should have seen that this was going to happen and should have planned for it. Instead we have a half arsed solution from someone who went straight from being a local councilor to being a full minister in the space of a few weeks.

Leftwaffe

History Queen wrote: »

I really really really hope they don't capitulate and allow predicted grades.

They absolutely have to carry out the traditional LC now or else all this sh1te is pointless. It will be a huge embarrassment for the government if it doesn’t. They have went all in on this.

Realistically, it ain’t gonna happen. And there will be war when it’s called off.

Stateofyou

Aegir wrote: »

they have had nine months to plan for this and they have failed to do so.

We are in the fortunate position of being able to send our daughter to a very well resourced private school, where they have been utilising google classroom since March, with great effect. In fact, the way the school has handled the entire pandemic has been superb, especially when you factor in the added complications of also being a boarding school with a number of overseas students.

This hybrid type solution they are being asked to do at the moment will cause them ten times more problems than being either fully open or fully closed.

The government should have seen that this was going to happen and should have planned for it. Instead we have a half arsed solution from someone who went straight from being a local councilor to being a full minister in the space of a few weeks.

Can I sidebar for a minute here:
What does one pay for private schooling?

Tpcl20

ASTI said they're not co-operating with this plan.

jayo76

ASTI directive just issued not to cooperate with 3 days.

Str8outtaWuhan

ASTI have said remote only telling members not to go in next week

wirelessdude01

ASTI just directed it's members not to engage or cooperate with the plan. They are to go online/remote.