Schools closed until February? (part 3)

khalessi

lawrencesummers wrote: »

When over 600 people are on trolleys the health system is overwhelmed.
It’s an annual occurrence during January because of flu.

That is part of the issue not the whole issue. There is also the problem with beds in A/e taken up by drunks, homeless, and other cases that can be treated by gps.

irishblessing

lawrencesummers wrote: »

When over 600 people are on trolleys the health system is overwhelmed.
It’s an annual occurrence during January because of flu.

Covid can and will overwhelm the health system at any time. It can also overwhelm health care systems far more robust than ours.

Are you seriously one of those people who compare covid to flu?

This post has reached a new low.

smck321

khalessi wrote: »

That is part of the issue not the whole issue. There is also the problem with beds in A/e taken up by drunks, homeless, and other cases that can be treated by gps.

GPs cant treat drunks or homeless, the slot size for a GP is less than 10 minutes. You can't fix a complex social issue like that in 10 minutes.

Just today at work we had a man complaining about doctors not socially distancing....while being an inpatient in ED for alcohol. Some people aren't capable of critical thinking and healthcare can be quite litigious at times meaning staff will be reluctant to genuinely be critical of lifestyle choices for fear of repercussions like the gp in Dublin being brought to the medical council for not signing a form allowing a patient not to wear a mask.

khalessi

smck321 wrote: »

GPs cant treat drunks or homeless, the slot size for a GP is less than 10 minutes. You can't fix a complex social issue like that in 10 minutes.

Just today at work we had a man complaining about doctors not socially distancing....while being an inpatient in ED for alcohol. Some people aren't capable of critical thinking and healthcare can be quite litigious at times meaning staff will be reluctant to genuinely be critical of lifestyle choices for fear of repercussions like the gp in Dublin being brought to the medical council for not signing a form allowing a patient not to wear a mask.

I know I used to work in A/e. My point being that hospitals being overwhelmed is not just down to flu but a broken system

wirelessdude01

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1022/1173303-irish-schools-covid/

Finally a journalist is brave enough to raise the issues we have with regards to the difference of close contacts in an educational setting and elsewhere.

thomas 123

khalessi wrote: »

I know I used to work in A/e. My point being that hospitals being overwhelmed is not just down to flu but a broken system

100%

The most recent example being the HSE not informing the government that contact tracing collapsed(or so we are told)

thomas 123

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1022/1173303-irish-schools-covid/

Finally a journalist is brave enough to raise the issues we have with regards to the difference of close contacts in an educational setting and elsewhere.

Lots of questions throughout the press briefing today thankfully.

I have been saying since schools went back that the lack of testing suites the narrative that schools are safe down to the ground.

lawrencesummers

irishblessing wrote: »

Covid can and will overwhelm the health system at any time. It can also overwhelm health care systems far more robust than ours.

Are you seriously one of those people who compare covid to flu?

This post has reached a new low.

Your missing the point.

It was said that none of the other illnesses overwhelm the health system when flu clearly does.

And no I’m not comparing Covid to Flu, I’m saying in children of school going age that flu is 4 times worse than Covid, and if anyone is going to advocate closing schools for Covid then they better advocate closing it for the flu.

combat14

thomas 123 wrote: »

Lots of questions throughout the press briefing today thankfully.

I have been saying since schools went back that the lack of testing suites the narrative that schools are safe down to the ground.

exactly if there is no testing everything is lovely and magically safe

meeeeh

Just to be clear I'm not denying the damage Covid can do. If anyone still doubts you can read how Czechia is struggling at the moment and asking neighbours for help. And once hospitals are full younger people who need help will die because they can't get a bed or treatment. It's not true Covid kills only old.

That being said flu does overwhelm the system, operations and treatments have to be cancelled because hospitals are full. Unlike Covid kids are super spreaders of flu and yet we don't discuss closing schools every year when there are hundreds of people on trolleys.

So a bit perspective would be nice. At the moment schools are not an issue, hospitals are not full and it would be stupid to close schools without first seeing if current measures limited the spread.

wirelessdude01

combat14 wrote: »

exactly if there is no testing everything is lovely and magically safe

I wouldn't say no testing, very limited is the phrase I would use.

Listening to them at the pressers and Norma's statements they keep using the phrase "mass" when it comes to testing in schools. This is totally incorrect.

thomas 123

combat14 wrote: »

exactly if there is no testing everything is lovely and magically safe

I’ve shared this story a few times on here so forgive me if you have seen it - my brothers teacher tested positive - she told her class via video call, not one student in any of her classes was tested or informed of her having covid. Whatever about primary schools, I reckon secondary schools are rampant.

There are many stories on here, many from the super teachers.

We can’t all be making it up or catching it in our houses as the deputy CMO said tonight.

irishblessing

We don't have a vaccine for covid. We do have vaccine's for the flu. Health care workers and others can get these jabs, however they, and the elderly and immune compromised are very vulnerable facing covid.

The HSE and our health care system here is a shít show in a normal year.

The two virus' do not overwhelm to the same degree. How can it when the covid deaths here and also take the US for example, far exceed the yearly tally for flu and without it even being a full year.

Thats me

joe40 wrote: »

That would mean closing schools for 6 weeks.

Even less taking into account school holidays. Even completely closing schools will not make any harm to children - what a disaster should happen if they will finish their education month later? It is not taking into account the fact schools are looking prepared to remote education, so no delay expected.

joe40 wrote: »

Then in the new year close them again.

Can i borrow your time machine to check what will happen in new year?

joe40 wrote: »

That is not sustainable.

Please explain.

joe40 wrote: »

Plenty of European countries have incidence higher than ours and schools are still open.

So we should not be smarter then less-smart of them are?

joe40 wrote: »

Of course there is a risk, but it is small.

How small is it?

joe40 wrote: »

Education, in a school setting, is essential for vast majority of our kids.

I do not believe in home learning too, regardless there were very optimistic reports in relation to home learning in this thread. But this is good work around current emergency situation.

joe40 wrote: »

Online/hybrid teaching may work for short term fixes but not in the longer term.

I do not require to close schools forever. But at the L5 they have to be closed, otherwise it is just wasting money and effort.

joe40 wrote: »

We can't depend on a vaccine so long term situation has to be planned for.

No, we cannot completely rely on vaccine. There are doubts is it possible to have vaccine against C19 in principle. So what?

joe40 wrote: »

Robust contact tracing is required with localised closures if needed. More transparency as well.

I'd prefer to have accidents prevented rather than traced post-mortemfactum

joe40 wrote: »

Schools are risky so govt needs to be honest.

Govt obliged to be honest But something prepends them to close schools for the time of L5, and I can't understand what

joe40 wrote: »

Maybe more could be for vulnerable children/families but I feel the overall education system should be kept functioning.

Let it functioning. But in line with other L5 measures i.e. no children from different households in the same room. Which means remote/home learning or just extended holidays for schools.

eagle eye

lawrencesummers wrote:

If it is roughly the same number as deaths then it’s minuscule, which if you want to advocate for a closure at that level the don’t be a hypocrite and advocate for a closure during the flu season.

I never mentioned the flu at any stage.

lawrencesummers

meeeeh wrote: »

Just to be clear I'm not denying the damage Covid can do. If anyone still doubts you can read how Czechia is struggling at the moment and asking neighbours for help. And once hospitals are full younger people who need help will die because they can't get a bed or treatment. It's not true Covid kills only old.

That being said flu does overwhelm the system, operations and treatments have to be cancelled because hospitals are full. Unlike Covid kids are super spreaders of flu and yet we don't discuss closing schools every year when there are hundreds of people on trolleys.

So a bit perspective would be nice. At the moment schools are not an issue, hospitals are not full and it would be stupid to close schools without first seeing if current measures limited the spread.

I broadly agree with you except that so far Covid is not a singular cause of mortality in young people, it’s not shown that Young people are dying from as opposed To with it.

I also disagree that schools are not an issue, I think they are but you don’t need to close them if the vulnerable associated with school going kids are isolated.

khalessi

The track and tracing has been in trouble long before today.

In July Paul Reid was saying 25% of people dont turn up to tests, when I got one of the kids tested I received 4 texts, first one was an appointment, second a different appointment, third a cancellation of 2nd appointment and 4th a third appointment which I then had to cancel.

I have read here of others that happened to.

All the appointments had different codes with them, what if people go to one and dont cancel others? Is it then presumed they were a no show?

eagle eye

lawrencesummers wrote:

So where does personal responsibility come into anything?

Personal responsibility is attempting to do the right thing, trying to live by the laws and rules if the country. Being careful, being a good parent,
How do you see it?

meeeeh

I got only one appointment but it took too long for it. I called on Friday, appointment was on Monday and results on Tuesday. That was about month ago. It did coincide with the golf outbreak in town but it shows that the system isn't responsive enough.

Thats me

eagle eye wrote: »

I never mentioned the flu at any stage.

That is fine, I noticed he does not even read posts before responding them :pac:

jimmytwotimes 2013

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The mortality rate for kids is tiny.
If you justify closing schools on the mortality rate then schools wouldn’t ever open again in the winter because the flu has a far higher mortality rate.

Life goes on

I never argued for schools to be closed. They cud however consider a rotated, 4-day week for students to help reduce overcrowding in schools

lawrencesummers

eagle eye wrote: »

Personal responsibility is attempting to do the right thing, trying to live by the laws and rules if the country. Being careful, being a good parent,
How do you see it?

I see it that laws and rules are not enough at times, and too much at other times.
Medical advice is not always right.
Government guidelines are stupid plenty.
You have to err on the side of caution at times.
You can ignore the rules other times
But you have to take responsibility on yourself for doing so.

Nobody is going to hold your hand through life.
Nor should you want it held

I wouldn’t send my kids to school if anyone in the house has underlying health issues because I don’t think they have a handle on the situation and the worst case scenario is possible - so assume it will eventually spread to all people in education.

lawrencesummers

Thats me wrote: »

That is fine, I noticed he does not even read posts before responding them :pac:

That’s funny considering the response is to a post where I had not quoted them.

Grandeeod

Confirmed case in my daughters 1st year PP class. Text received tonight Awaiting HSE guidance. Laois.

I really didn't think it would creep into such a rural school, but there you go.

Jinglejangle69

Grandeeod wrote: »

Confirmed case in my daughters 1st year PP class. Text received tonight Awaiting HSE guidance. Laois.

I really didn't think it would creep into such a rural school, but there you go.

Why did you think that???

wirelessdude01

Grandeeod wrote: »

Confirmed case in my daughters 1st year PP class. Text received tonight Awaiting HSE guidance. Laois.

I really didn't think it would creep into such a rural school, but there you go.

Why woud you have thought that?

Grandeeod

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why did you think that???

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why woud you have thought that?

Sarcasm lads. Sarcasm! That said, I have a very upset child on my hands, being told to stay out of school and telling me about the actual student who has it, as it was obvious and even teachers were scared. Student spent two days in class with obvious issues. Oh well.:rolleyes:

wirelessdude01

Grandeeod wrote: »

Sarcasm lads. Sarcasm! That said, I have a very upset child on my hands, being told to stay out of school and telling me about the actual student who has it, as it was obvious and even teachers were scared. Student spent two days in class with obvious issues. Oh well.:rolleyes:

Now the extra question will be how many students and staff will be considered close contacts?

Queried

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-10-22.html

Wonder why it was recalled?

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Now the extra question will be how many students and staff will be considered close contacts?

Im putting my money on all of them:cool:;)

wirelessdude01

Queried wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-10-22.html

Wonder why it was recalled?

Interesting.

khalessi

Hand sanitiser was alcohol free so of little use.

THis could actually be incorrect as just read no info given. Curious

Queried

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Interesting.

We use this brand in the school I work in, not ideal.

Queried

khalessi wrote: »

Hand sanitiser was alcohol free so of little use.

Seriously? We have been using it since August.

khalessi

Interesting they can close school if affected by hands free sanitiser but not for actual multiple covid cases

wirelessdude01

Queried wrote: »

We use this brand in the school I work in, not ideal.

Couldn't tell you what we use. Dispensers are refilled each evening.

Icyseanfitz

Queried wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-10-22.html

Wonder why it was recalled?

Schools are safe, schools are safe, schools are safe

If i say it 3 times i might make it so

Queried

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Couldn't tell you what we use. Dispensers are refilled each evening.

I have a bottle of it on my desk with the label of the on it. Not sure what's in the classroom dispensers but I'd reckon same.

Grandeeod

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Now the extra question will be how many students and staff will be considered close contacts?

I won't be considered a close contact. My wife won't be considered a close contact. Most kids around the affected kid won't be considered a close contact. The teachers won't be considered a close contact. We know how this works.:rolleyes: But the text from the school has advised us to wait for the HSE to contact us.:rolleyes:

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

Hand sanitiser was alcohol free so of little use.

THis could actually be incorrect as just read no info given. Curious

Queried wrote: »

Seriously? We have been using it since August.

I might be wrong for the reason as saw somewhere else no reason given. HOpe it isnt going to be a serious one.

wirelessdude01

Queried wrote: »

I have a bottle of it on my desk with the label of the on it. Not sure what's in the classroom dispensers but I'd reckon same.

The FDA stated that it is critical that anyone exposed to hand sanitizers that contain methanol seek treatment immediately to reverse the effects of methanol poisoning, which can potentially lead to nausea and vomiting, headache, blurred vision, permanent blindness, coma, nerve damage or death.

That brand used methanol instead of ethanol. This is the reason for the recall and also the reason why schools that used it can close tomorrow if they want to.

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The FDA stated that it is critical that anyone exposed to hand sanitizers that contain methanol seek treatment immediately to reverse the effects of methanol poisoning, which can potentially lead to nausea and vomiting, headache, blurred vision, permanent blindness, coma, nerve damage or death.

That brand used methanol instead of ethanol. This is the reason for the recall and also the reason why schools that used it can close tomorrow if they want to.

That is serious sh!t

Icyseanfitz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The FDA stated that it is critical that anyone exposed to hand sanitizers that contain methanol seek treatment immediately to reverse the effects of methanol poisoning, which can potentially lead to nausea and vomiting, headache, blurred vision, permanent blindness, coma, nerve damage or death.

That brand used methanol instead of ethanol. This is the reason for the recall and also the reason why schools that used it can close tomorrow if they want to.

:mad: what will be the excuses for this

Queried

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The FDA stated that it is critical that anyone exposed to hand sanitizers that contain methanol seek treatment immediately to reverse the effects of methanol poisoning, which can potentially lead to nausea and vomiting, headache, blurred vision, permanent blindness, coma, nerve damage or death.

That brand used methanol instead of ethanol. This is the reason for the recall and also the reason why schools that used it can close tomorrow if they want to.

Actually sitting here laughing, you couldnt make this up. I've been bathing in the stuff for 2 months :pac:

khalessi

I was going to try and make a list of all the feck ups since this crowd came to power but I cant keep up

wirelessdude01

Wonder will the media report on this?

wirelessdude01

I thought schools were promised this kinda sh!t was done with?

https://roscommonherald.ie/2020/10/2...er-covid-case/

BonsaiKitten

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Wonder will the media report on this?

It's on the Journal anyway, saw it there and came to see had ye lot been discussing it.

I see that Virapro sanitiser can also cause upper respiratory system irritation,

symptoms are

headaches.
stuffed or runny nose. :eek:
sore throat.
sneezing. :eek:
muscle aches and pain.

sneezing and runny noses, perfect for spreading,,,

jesus.

Icyseanfitz

Jake1 wrote: »

I see that Virapro sanitiser can also cause upper respiratory system irritation,

symptoms are

headaches.
stuffed or runny nose. :eek:
sore throat.
sneezing. :eek:
muscle aches and pain.

sneezing and runny noses, perfect for spreading,,,

jesus.

Its okay kids don't get covid