Schools closed until February? (part 3)

irishblessing

blanch152 wrote: »

Schools are not places shown to have transmission of the virus - all the evidence to date points to schools as being lower risk than care homes, hospitals, meat factories, pubs and restaurants, as well as many other locations.

The unmasked mammies are a real problem, but that is not on the school.

"All the evidence.." Eh no. That's not true Blanch and you know it. It's all been posted here already. What do you make of Israel then? There have been clusters in the schools. Unmasked children 10 and over, unmasked teachers, unmasked parents, family get togethers, GAA celebrations, and parties, people not social distancing, people wearing masks under their noses or visors, etc are ALL the problem.

Smacruairi

blanch152 wrote: »

Schools are not places shown to have transmission of the virus - all the evidence to date points to schools as being lower risk than care homes, hospitals, meat factories, pubs and restaurants, as well as many other locations.

The unmasked mammies are a real problem, but that is not on the school.

https://www.tes.com/news/schools-linked-large-increase-covid-r-number

Yeah no, all the evidence doesn't say what you think. Jesus christ, you need supervision

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

Says someone who misrepresents reports and newspaper articles, screams about media cover up and considers Facebook hard news. Trump would be proud.

Misrepresents? Are we back here again? I can repost it if you need a review. I proved that you were in fact wrong yesterday on 2 counts, and after insulting me, and which you refused to apologise for. You talk some sh!te.

"Screams..":rolleyes: You are certainly consistent in your hyperbolic nonsense.

So your position is the FB group with over 114k members which publishes either HSE letters, or texts from them or the school are fake? I peruse it most days to look for my kids school, and underneath every post are loads of comments from the parents or teachers of these schools. Not even once has one person, EVER, said that the post is a fake and it never happened at that school.

treade1

Thats me wrote: »

Only in your age group: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20201022%20-%20website.pdf

The HSE figures are based on known cases. The reality is that there are a whole bunch of people who were asymptomatic or had a minor cold who never bother getting tested. This brings the IFR down. Here is the link to a WHO document showing IFR is < 0.05 for the under 70's and 0.27% for the entire population.
https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

Queried

Woohoo, midterm! We made it. Well done everyone. Was great to be able to celebrate Halloween with the kids today, such a lovely atmosphere and great excitement. I am glad of a week with a bit less worry, I will say. Hope all school staff, pupils and families have a relaxing week off.

treade1

And as Doctor John Lee said on Prime Time last night a positive test is not a case. A CASE is someone who test positive who has serious symptoms which require medical attention. A few kids in school with a tickle in their throat or a slight cough who test positive are not cases. This is the first pandemic in living memory where the symptoms for most people are so mild that you have to get tested to find out whether or not you have the disease!

Thats me

treade1 wrote: »

The HSE figures are based on known cases.[/url]

Ahh, sorry. I didn't notice you are coming from unknown cases. :rolleyes: Please go ahead, i will not interrupt you anymore.

eagle eye

meeeeh wrote:

Says someone who misrepresents reports and newspaper articles, screams about media cover up and considers Facebook hard news. Trump would be proud.

I think you have more in common with Trump than most here.

wirelessdude01

Queried wrote: »

Woohoo, midterm! We made it. Well done everyone. Was great to be able to celebrate Halloween with the kids today, such a lovely atmosphere and great excitement. I am glad of a week with a bit less worry, I will say. Hope all school staff, pupils and families have a relaxing week off.

Well done.

As I said to my principal today when I was talking to them, really hated having to miss today as it's one of my favourite days of the year in school.

Such a pity we won't be able to do our usual Christmas show.

xhomelezz

treade1 wrote: »

And as Doctor John Lee said on Prime Time last night a positive test is not a case. A CASE is someone who test positive who has serious symptoms which require medical attention. A few kids in school with a tickle in their throat or a slight cough who test positive are not cases. This is the first pandemic in living memory where the symptoms for most people are so mild that you have to get tested to find out whether or not you have the disease!

This bs post reminds me March 2020

khalessi

Thats me wrote: »

Written confirmation from 2-3 eye witnesses would work better than these pathetic excuses :cool:

|I was thinking video and architect plans with the relevant areas highlighted:D

Queried

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well done.

As I said to my principal today when I was talking to them, really hated having to miss today as it's one of my favourite days of the year in school.

Such a pity we won't be able to do our usual Christmas show.

Hope you're doing okay wirelessdude01! Yeah it's a lovely day for the kids to be fair, especially this year. I know, the Christmas shows are the highlight of the year for so many, a real loss for the kids.

Smacruairi

treade1 wrote: »

And as Doctor John Lee said on Prime Time last night a positive test is not a case. A CASE is someone who test positive who has serious symptoms which require medical attention. A few kids in school with a tickle in their throat or a slight cough who test positive are not cases. This is the first pandemic in living memory where the symptoms for most people are so mild that you have to get tested to find out whether or not you have the disease!

Good god this is actually full on denial.

Funsterdelux

treade1 wrote: »

And as Doctor John Lee said on Prime Time last night a positive test is not a case. A CASE is someone who test positive who has serious symptoms which require medical attention. A few kids in school with a tickle in their throat or a slight cough who test positive are not cases. This is the first pandemic in living memory where the symptoms for most people are so mild that you have to get tested to find out whether or not you have the disease!

You are right, you are wasting your time here. People here just care about themselves, their kids, their older family relatives, the whole community, the healthcare system.....

meeeeh

Smacruairi wrote: »

https://www.tes.com/news/schools-linked-large-increase-covid-r-number

Yeah no, all the evidence doesn't say what you think. Jesus christ, you need supervision

From your article:

Professor Nair said: “We found an increase in R after reopening schools but it is not clear whether the increase is attributable to specific age groups, where there may be substantial differences in adherence to social distancing measures within and outside classrooms.

“Furthermore, more data are needed to understand the specific role of schools in increased Sars-CoV-2 transmission through robust contact tracing.”

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

So your position is the FB group with over 114k members which publishes either HSE letters, or texts from them or the school are fake? I peruse it most days to look for my kids school, and underneath every post are loads of comments from the parents or teachers of these schools. Not even once has one person, EVER, said that the post is a fake and it never happened at that school.

As I said dismissing what Irish scientists and experts are saying and believing everything on FB because nobody said something there is fake. Yeah science indeed.

As for the rest of the post I'm not going into because neither of us will change opinion.

facehugger99

[I[/I]

xhomelezz wrote: »

This bs post reminds me March 2020

Smacruairi wrote: »

Good god this is actually full on denial.

LOL.

Nothing in that posters statement was incorrect in any way.

Hilarious the way the posters get shouted down for not following the hysteria-agenda.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

As I said dismissing what Irish scientists and experts are saying and believing everything on FB because nobody said something there is fake. Yeah science indeed.

As for the rest of the post I'm not going into because neither of us will change opinion.

My reference just now to the FB group is because you brought it up. And you didn't acknowledge what I said about them re the proof, either.

However I have obviously previously stated and posted references to scientific research and recently comments made by one of the worlds top infectious disease experts. But you don't want to acknowledge that either, do you? It just doesn't fit your agenda. You're one of the least open-minded and honest posters I've come across on this site. Someone who consistently posts in a disingenuous and hyperbolic manner, who doesn't address or refute any point at all that which goes against your worldview, and doesn't apologise when proven wrong after slinging insults. It discredits you, and you don't seem to know it. Sad. You're not going into it because you can't.

irishblessing

facehugger99 wrote: »

[I[/I]



LOL.

Nothing in that posters statement was incorrect in any way.

Hilarious the way the posters get shouted down for not following the hysteria-agenda.

Then lay out your argument for why it's incorrect.

Thats me

meeeeh wrote: »

From your article:

Professor Nair said: “We found an increase in R after reopening schools but it is not clear whether the increase is attributable to specific age groups, where there may be substantial differences in adherence to social distancing measures within and outside classrooms.

“Furthermore, more data are needed to understand the specific role of schools in increased Sars-CoV-2 transmission through robust contact tracing.”

So what? They found practically useful effect from closure of schools - significant decrease of transmission ratio. Further investigation will help to understand the mechanism of spreading of the virus better, may be make schools safer. But this is future. Immediate action should be to close schools at least at the periods when the local area at the Level 5.

xhomelezz

facehugger99 wrote: »

[I[/I]



LOL.

Nothing in that posters statement was incorrect in any way.

Hilarious the way the posters get shouted down for not following the hysteria-agenda.

I didn't shout him down, if he wants to post more bs, he is more than welcome. So is yourself.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

My reference just now to the FB group is because you brought it up. And you didn't acknowledge what I said about them re the proof, either.

However I have obviously previously stated and posted references to scientific research and recently comments made by one of the worlds top infectious disease experts. But you don't want to acknowledge that either, do you? It just doesn't fit your agenda. You're one of the least open-minded and honest posters I've come across on this site. Someone who consistently posts in a disingenuous and hyperbolic manner, who doesn't address or refute any point at all that which goes against your worldview, and doesn't apologise when proven wrong after slinging insults. It discredits you, and you don't seem to know it. Sad. You're not going into it because you can't.

You see that's where you are wrong. I don't actually care about my reputation here. For me this is fun, to actually make opinion I get information from other sources. (Not twitter m). However if you are talking about Dr. Fauci interview you actually don't understand the nuance of talking about hypothetical situations and numbers and about actual situation and numbers. Foreign experts ard very careful not to disregard local scientists and their decisions. There is a difference between level 5 when virus is completely out of control (Czechia, Belgium) or Irish situation where level 5 is preemptive so we can hammered with our families for Christmas and so that retailers are not closed in December when they do most trading. Closing schools in our situation would be nuts and I don't think any EU country (or US) closed schools at the level of infections we have.

blanch152

JDD wrote: »

I've seen parents of both genders chatting without masks outside school. I'm uncomfortable with the "mammies" caricature as if it's the 1950's and the hysterical wimmin clearly don't understand the rules. Y'know, them with their small brains and all.

Twasn't me with the reference. I was just responding, but I agree with you.

blanch152

meeeeh wrote: »

From your article:

Professor Nair said: “We found an increase in R after reopening schools but it is not clear whether the increase is attributable to specific age groups, where there may be substantial differences in adherence to social distancing measures within and outside classrooms.

“Furthermore, more data are needed to understand the specific role of schools in increased Sars-CoV-2 transmission through robust contact tracing.”

Clearly, s/he hadn't read their own link.

Smacruairi

blanch152 wrote: »

Clearly, s/he hadn't read their own link.

Professor Nair said: “We found an increase in R after reopening schools but it is not clear whether the increase is attributable to specific age groups, where there may be substantial differences in adherence to social distancing measures within and outside classrooms.

This clearly means they can't break it down in terms of specific age groups but that it is firstly schools driving out. They aren't splitting hairs between 10 and 12 year olds essentially.

Furthermore they are clearly recognising that schools are taking diff approaches, like primary school in one classroom and no moving vs secondary some moving, but can't pin down the exact extent to which this has an impact.

“Furthermore, more data are needed to understand the specific role of schools in increased Sars-CoV-2 transmission through robust contact tracing.”

We don't have robust tracing. We gave up at the start of the week, remember?


Jesus, lads, you are clutching at straws now. Data from over 100 countries and its still fingers in ears stuff.

eagle eye

meeeeh wrote: »

You see that's where you are wrong. I don't actually care about my reputation here. For me this is fun, to actually make opinion I get information from other sources. (Not twitter m). However if you are talking about Dr. Fauci interview you actually don't understand the nuance of talking about hypothetical situations and numbers and about actual situation and numbers. Foreign experts ard very careful not to disregard local scientists and their decisions. There is a difference between level 5 when virus is completely out of control (Czechia, Belgium) or Irish situation where level 5 is preemptive so we can hammered with our families for Christmas and so that retailers are not closed in December when they do most trading. Closing schools in our situation would be nuts and I don't think any EU country (or US) closed schools at the level of infections we have.

The bolded bit is why people have a big problem with you to start with. If you are not going to respect those around you then you are not getting it back.

And just to point out, and I believe you actually know it, the reason we are in level 5 is to prevent our hospitals from getting overrun.

As regards kids in schools, we will know exactly how things are before the end of this lockdown if they go back to school in a week's time.

At this stage there is no definitive proof that kids do not spread the virus.

CruelSummer

Queried wrote: »

Woohoo, midterm! We made it. Well done everyone. Was great to be able to celebrate Halloween with the kids today, such a lovely atmosphere and great excitement. I am glad of a week with a bit less worry, I will say. Hope all school staff, pupils and families have a relaxing week off.

Be careful with your positivity on here, they all want to get schools closed ASAP in the interest of theirs and their pupil's/children's 'safety'. Funny how some posters on this thread claim to be teachers. They've an awful lot of time for boards posts if they are, and not a lot for teaching the students they claim to be so concerned for.

CruelSummer

xhomelezz wrote: »

This bs post reminds me March 2020

What's false about the statement? Do you agree or disagree that PCR tests can show previous infections and not current, as per the report in The Lancet? Or what part of the statement do you not acknowledge? Cases are symptomatic people or those that are hospitalised. How many asymptomatic of other viruses do we count? Should we count asymptomatic norovirus carriers as cases?

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

You see that's where you are wrong. I don't actually care about my reputation here. For me this is fun, to actually make opinion I get information from other sources. (Not twitter m). However if you are talking about Dr. Fauci interview you actually don't understand the nuance of talking about hypothetical situations and numbers and about actual situation and numbers. Foreign experts ard very careful not to disregard local scientists and their decisions. There is a difference between level 5 when virus is completely out of control (Czechia, Belgium) or Irish situation where level 5 is preemptive so we can hammered with our families for Christmas and so that retailers are not closed in December when they do most trading. Closing schools in our situation would be nuts and I don't think any EU country (or US) closed schools at the level of infections we have.

It wasn't hypothetical- we're in level 5, aren't we, which is what his comments were about. You don't have a point there, it's just a desperate attempt by you to avoid admitting being wrong on any level and saying you're sorry for insulting me. It's ridiculous.

There are EU countries who have closed schools and/or moved online/hybrid learning. The US, where I have Family and friends, have closed them completely or moved to a hybrid remote plan. Talking about coronavirus and people getting infected and sick in the schools is "fun" says you? Wow.

byhookorbycrook

blanch152 wrote: »

Schools are not places shown to have transmission of the virus - all the evidence to date points to schools as being lower risk than care homes, hospitals, meat factories, pubs and restaurants, as well as many other locations.

The unmasked mammies are a real problem, but that is not on the school.

The studies on children were conducted either when schools were closed or in some places only open for children of essential workers .

meeeeh

eagle eye wrote: »

The bolded bit is why people have a big problem with you to start with. If you are not going to respect those around you then you are not getting it back.

I see you are one of those who look into their own hart and know what everyone is thinking.

Thats me

meeeeh wrote: »

I see you are one of those who look into their own hart and know what everyone is thinking.

You'd better take that into account than oppose.

Queried

CruelSummer wrote: »

Be careful with your positivity on here, they all want to get schools closed ASAP in the interest of theirs and their pupil's/children's 'safety'. Funny how some posters on this thread claim to be teachers. They've an awful lot of time for boards posts if they are, and not a lot for teaching the students they claim to be so concerned for.

Hey CruelSummer,

To be honest, I've found the last couple of months very hard and though today was a great day for all, it was a relief none the less to have made it to midterm. I'm finding working in a school quite stressful at the moment and though our staff are doing the best they can do I do feel that the department of education is downplaying the real situations schools face. I don't want schools to close for my own sense of sanity but I do feel quite unprotected in my classroom environment. Just wanted to make it clear that its not all sunshine and roses here, sometimes I'm up and other times I'm down. Swings and roundabouts :pac: I think most teachers just want transparency from the Dept and for us to be treated like everybody else when it comes to protective measures and being considered a close contact, etc. Still can't believe that these are the times we are living in, kids were joking today that they were wearing a mask today so I wouldnt be left out, made me laugh and then do a double take thinking about how surreal the whole situation is. Anyway, my two cents, sorry for rambling!

wirelessdude01

I see it's been confirmed that the department of education was informed on Tuesday about the hand sanitiser issue but did nothing. Total dereliction of duty.

ShineOn7

Are they really not extending the ROI Midterm break after the revelations in Northern Ireland today?

Covid-19 confirmed cases in half of Northern Ireland schools

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

The ROI government are absolute lying ****

Queried

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Are they really not extending the ROI Midterm break after the revelations in Northern Ireland today?



Absolute lying ****

Hi ShineOn7,

What were the revelations?

Edit: just googled it, that's a lot of schools.

Limpy

My daughter's school gave the kids all the books to Keep at home today. Usual they only bring what topic or homework they do on a giving day.

I'm still gonna say i think after midterm the school's won't reopen untill the new year.

wirelessdude01

Limpy wrote: »

My daughter's school gave the kids all the books to Keep at home today. Usual they only bring what topic or homework they do on a giving day.

I'm still gonna say i think after midterm the school's won't reopen untill the new year.

Just in case. No one knows.

Queried

Limpy wrote: »

My daughter's school gave the kids all the books to Keep at home today. Usual they only bring what topic or homework they do on a giving day.

I'm still gonna say i think after midterm the school's won't reopen untill the new year.

Hi Limpy,

I think that could be due to management's concern that schools could close again with no warning like last time. I don't think principals know anything more than the public to be honest. In the school I work in it was business as usual. I think many teaching staff are worried that closures will just be landed on us with no time to prepare; I suppose only time will tell.

ShineOn7

Queried wrote: »

Hi ShineOn7,

What were the revelations?

Edit: just googled it, that's a lot of schools.

Hi, I've amended my post with the link

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

Covid-19 confirmed cases in half of Northern Ireland schools

The ROI government are flat out lying to us

Take your kids out of school. They are riddled with this

(Cue someone asking "how do we go to work then?", and I'm not really sure tbh. You'll have to ask yourself what you prioritize more)

SusanC10

Our daughter (5th Class) asked to bring home her books today (on our instructions) and was refused.

We had agreed between ourselves that we would remove our Kids if we got to Level 5. With it being so close to the Midterm, we had decided to review things before the 2nd.
A proper Level 5 with most things closed might have made it safer to remain at school but this to me feels like very little has changed in terms of volume of people moving around etc.

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

Our daughter (5th Class) asked to bring home her books today (on our instructions) and was refused.

We had agreed between ourselves that we would remove our Kids if we got to Level 5. With it being so close to the Midterm, we had decided to review things before the 2nd.
A proper Level 5 with most things closed might have made it safer to remain at school but this to me feels like very little has changed in terms of volume of people moving around etc.

Now the teacher should have just sent them home but probably would have been best to have either sent a written note in(if allowed), an email to the teacher/school with thr same message or a quick call to the school office and that could have been easily avoided.

jrosen

SusanC10 wrote: »

Our daughter (5th Class) asked to bring home her books today (on our instructions) and was refused.

We had agreed between ourselves that we would remove our Kids if we got to Level 5. With it being so close to the Midterm, we had decided to review things before the 2nd.
A proper Level 5 with most things closed might have made it safer to remain at school but this to me feels like very little has changed in terms of volume of people moving around etc.

You should email the school/teacher and explain your plans and ask that her books be ready for you to pick up on the day school returns. Could have been easily arranged with some communication from you.

eagle eye

meeeeh wrote:

I see you are one of those who look into their own hart and know what everyone is thinking.

No, it's just common sense. Something it appears you are lacking, sadly.

byhookorbycrook

Some schools who do book rental are disinclined to let books “ stay home .” In our school , each teacher has sent a week’s work home over the last few days , as advised by the body that manages primary schools .

CruelSummer

Queried wrote: »

Hey CruelSummer,

To be honest, I've found the last couple of months very hard and though today was a great day for all, it was a relief none the less to have made it to midterm. I'm finding working in a school quite stressful at the moment and though our staff are doing the best they can do I do feel that the department of education is downplaying the real situations schools face. I don't want schools to close for my own sense of sanity but I do feel quite unprotected in my classroom environment. Just wanted to make it clear that its not all sunshine and roses here, sometimes I'm up and other times I'm down. Swings and roundabouts :pac: I think most teachers just want transparency from the Dept and for us to be treated like everybody else when it comes to protective measures and being considered a close contact, etc. Still can't believe that these are the times we are living in, kids were joking today that they were wearing a mask today so I wouldnt be left out, made me laugh and then do a double take thinking about how surreal the whole situation is. Anyway, my two cents, sorry for rambling!

I agree with all of what you’ve said here. It isn’t easy & the constant media coverage and focus on schools being open isn’t helping. I have previously suggested half in/out on a rota basis if cases in the community get too high to enable further distancing, etc. But this should only come into play if our hospital system is coming under more pressure in my opinion. At the moment it isn’t, and vulnerable/at risk groups should be protecting themselves while cases are high.
I also think perhaps there should be Covid sick leave for teachers, to encourage them not to go to school if feeling under the weather/needing tests. Many teachers may be reluctant to use up their existing sick leave while waiting on test results. I’m not sure if such leave exits currently or not.

khalessi

CruelSummer wrote: »

Be careful with your positivity on here, they all want to get schools closed ASAP in the interest of theirs and their pupil's/children's 'safety'. Funny how some posters on this thread claim to be teachers. They've an awful lot of time for boards posts if they are, and not a lot for teaching the students they claim to be so concerned for.

I dont know who wants to get schools closed, I do see people who want transparency. Not sure which people you are talking about, but there are teachers here who have said are on leave for various reasons.

And positivity is a good thing and needed in school especially at the moment, as I said elsewhere today was lovely, probably one of the nicer dress up days, as it was needed more, the kids needed fun and got it. The laughter around the corridors was lovely.

wirelessdude01

CruelSummer wrote: »

Be careful with your positivity on here, they all want to get schools closed ASAP in the interest of theirs and their pupil's/children's 'safety'. Funny how some posters on this thread claim to be teachers. They've an awful lot of time for boards posts if they are, and not a lot for teaching the students they claim to be so concerned for.

Guess I'm one of the teachers you are referencing in your comment. Not that it's any of your business but I'm out on non-covid related sick leave for the foreseeable.
Maybe just maybe you should wind your neck in and be a little bit more circumspect with what you say.

I see little or no posters on here who I know are teachers looking for schools to be shut.

solerina

I don’t want the schools to close but what I have seen in the past 2 days of level 5 doesn’t give me any confidence that the restrictions will work. There is just as much traffic on the roads, and in my local town today it was extremely busy with a few fashion clothes shops that certainly don’t sell anything essential still open. This lockdown is hammering some sectors bars, barbers, hairdressers and many clothes shops while others are just ignoring it...definitely far busier than at any stage between March and June....people are just not taking this seriously, closing schools would make things much more serious and more likely to have an effect imo

irishblessing

CruelSummer wrote: »

I agree with all of what you’ve said here. It isn’t easy & the constant media coverage and focus on schools being open isn’t helping. I have previously suggested half in/out on a rota basis if cases in the community get too high to enable further distancing, etc. But this should only come into play if our hospital system is coming under more pressure in my opinion. At the moment it isn’t, and vulnerable/at risk groups should be protecting themselves while cases are high.
I also think perhaps there should be Covid sick leave for teachers, to encourage them not to go to school if feeling under the weather/needing tests. Many teachers may be reluctant to use up their existing sick leave while waiting on test results. I’m not sure if such leave exits currently or not.

That's not true... and the time to do something is before the s-t hits the fan, not after.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-letterkenny-and-cavan-hospitals-exceed-normal-icu-capacity-over-covid-19-1.4382081