Schools closed until February? (part 3)

irishblessing

joe40 wrote: »

In fairness the unions are asking for schools to be safer. Nobody including the vast majority of teachers want schools to close.
Education and school is a essential service in so many ways. Online lessons are a very poor alternative to face to face teaching.
I have done a few webinar training sessions and they are mind bogglingly boring, after about an hour I was taking in very little info.
The idea of kids listening into streamed lessons or pre recorded lessons is not feasible to any significant extent.
Maybe for well motivated kids with good access to technology, but many 1000s would be left behind.

So it's in the governments best interests to provide enhanced safety measures that keeps schools open and all of us safer, right?

joe40

irishblessing wrote: »

So it's in the governments best interests to provide enhanced safety measures that keeps schools open and all of us safer, right?

Yeah, absolutely, especially rapid contact tracing and local shutdowns of either individual class or full school.

Thats me

blanch152 wrote: »

It has been the foundation stone of the union's payclaims for the last forty years, how education is essential to Ireland's future, now, when they are asked to put their shoulder to the wheel to back it up, they are suddenly not so essential.

It is difficult to find someone who would have any doubt that education is essential to Ireland's future. But closing schools for the times of L5 is also essential to Ireland's future.

khalessi

blanch152 wrote: »

I think the teacher unions don't have a clue.

They have been asking for N95 masks which aren't used anywhere else except when treating patients.

They don't understand the statistics which show that schools are relatively low-risk compared to so many other workplaces that are still active and less important than education.

What is weird is that they are supposed to be the ones to educate the rest of us, yet they don't understand some things as simple as this.

Actually I disagree with you. Union negotiations are about lobing the high ball and debating on what is acceptable. So I am sure they are aware that N95 masks are used in medical settings but will eventually following discussion accept normal med grade masks.

Re statistics, what they understand and you don't or you are not willing to accept despite it being mentioned here for weeks, is that the parameters for what is accepted guidance for close contacts and testing and tracking else where for close contacts, has been substantially narrowed in both primary and secondary schools.

They are also aware that schools are part of the community and that the transmission rates are rife in schools. The Unions are not looking on FB but speaking to principals. Narrowing your contacts on who to test alters the results. The fact a class was tested on insistance of the teacher and 7 more cases discovered speaks of this. The HSE only wanted the pod tested.

Thats me

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah, absolutely, especially rapid contact tracing and local shutdowns of either individual class or full school.

lets me try to guess how this will work. Some child or teacher have got infected somewhere outside of school. For from few days to couple weeks he/she does not develop any symptoms and visiting a school spreading infection around. When he/she finally developed symptoms and checked positively - is not it a little bit too late to rapidly trace anything? Many people could be infected to that moment of time and pass infection to outside of given cluster.

MelbourneMan

irishblessing wrote: »

That same modelling that predicted 10's of thousands of deaths early on? What (modern) experience of a global pandemic from a novel coronavirus?

And would the fact that 10,000 people fell through the tracing cracks last weekend help that agenda out? How about the constant moving goalposts of the definition of a close contact leading to many people not being tested. Would the failure of many who fail to appear to show for their tests also not skew that prediction to your benefit? How about the fact that one of the largest testing centres at UCD has closed and therefore the processing of tests there this weekend can not be done?

Why didn't all your modelling and experience and indications then tell you that we needed to beef up our health care system and our testing system then? It couldn't tell you that very obviously we need a blended remote learning plan for our citizens? Wow.

OK. So while my post handle a single point, I note that your questions raise several related ones, and so shall take them in order.

Yes, the same model. While it has been refined somewhat, its predictive accuracy has been confirmed. That we avoided the tens of thousands of deaths that could have resulted without the preventative measures is a testament to the efforts of all involved, and to the Irish people themselves.

There is no agenda, as you put it. Simply the best management of the pandemic that we can achieve with available resources.

'Moving goal posts' have a rather negative connotation, which misrepresents the strategy. Your observation is correct though, that how we counter the progression of the virus requires regular modification of our tactics employed. This is good practice though - not a moving of the target itself which remains containment and supression of the virus.

I do not have a 'benefit' as you put it. The absence of the 10000 contacts does not have a great impact on the overall situation, nor of the numbers recorded.

The temporary reduction in NVRL testing volumes has little to no impact on the testing capability nationally.

'Beefing up' the health system has little impact in the overall scheme of dealing with the crisis. While surge capacity protocols have been implemented any fundamental increase in resources specific to the crisis have little relevance given the time scales of both ramping up such capacity, and the crisis itself.

While we did temporarily exceed testing capacity, on the whole, capacity has been sufficient to our needs. The real consequences of this would seem to have been misrepresented in their severity by a headline hungry media.

I do not follow your last question, but if you could expand, would be happy to revert with an answer also.

Thats me

"capacity has been sufficient to our needs." - it is getting more and more interesting who they are...

MelbourneMan

Thats me wrote: »

"capacity has been sufficient to our needs." - it is getting more and more interesting who they are...

Yes, our needs as a country to control and contain the virus.

Thats me

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Yes, our needs as a country to control and contain the virus.

Wouldn't closing schools for periods of time when the Country goes into Level 5 help us as a Country to achieve result faster and on more predictable manner? :rolleyes:

mvl

irishblessing wrote: »

I'm on the edge of my seat. :rolleyes:

and you have some stamina
- unlike you, I'm skipping over MMs posts - making better use of my time this way.

MelbourneMan

Thats me wrote: »

Wouldn't closing schools for periods of time when the Country goes into Level 5 help us as a Country to achieve result faster and on more predictable manner? :rolleyes:

Hello. Yes, it certainly would, but as I think I have explained before, and it is a political decision, the cost of doing so must we weighed against those faster results.

Thats me

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. Yes, it certainly would, but as I think I have explained before, and it is a political decision

Sometimes I'm using combination of words "political decision" as replacement of swear words to describe result compromised by compromisses.

MelbourneMan wrote: »

the cost of doing so must we weighed against those faster results.

In the case of schools closed - where additional cost is going from?

wirelessdude01

Tomorrow's independent makes for interesting reading.

Schools and also that tracing had got to a 4000 backlog before the decision was made to effectively get 2500 to self trace.

Schools piece is interesting because it's the NAPD leading the charge.

joe40

Thats me wrote: »

Wouldn't closing schools for periods of time when the Country goes into Level 5 help us as a Country to achieve result faster and on more predictable manner? :rolleyes:

Schools were closed for 6 months recently. What will be different this time around.

Smacruairi

joe40 wrote: »

Schools were closed for 6 months recently. What will be different this time around.

Well check the graph for when schools were closed over the summer vs when they were opened end of August. Then look at various reports around schools influences on r numbers. Then go have a lie down.

Thats me

joe40 wrote: »

Schools were closed for 6 months recently. What will be different this time around.

Novadays the impact from opening schools is a fact supported by scientific study: https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40069769.html - unlikely any further demagogy would change that :cool:

Jucifer

The government clearly need a change of tactic on schools. The “nothing to see here” strategy is not working. A better strategy, especially if they believe schools to be a safe environment, would be

1) Acknowledge the additional risk that teachers are exposed to, especially during L5 restrictions. Stop telling everyone schools are the safest place you can be. It belittles the role teachers are playing in keeping the show on the road during the pandemic and deviates from the message of “we are all in this together”.

2) Assure all involved, including children, parents and teachers, that the most thorough and robust testing and tracing system will be implemented in schools. Provide assurance that any changes in current knowledge on transmission in schools will be acted on immediately.

3) Work with schools on an ongoing basis to figure out where weaknesses in systems have led to transmission and use this feedback to update guidance to schools on best practice. Listen to the teachers and not just administrators on where failings in the system occur and act in it.

4) Provide clear, timely and honest communication at all times. This will reduce rumours and speculation and gain trust.

I know it is easy to comment from the sidelines but these are basic principles that should be in place if we want to reduce the divisiveness of the issue at present and get everyone on the same page with respect to keeping schools safe during Covid

joe40

Smacruairi wrote: »

Well check the graph for when schools were closed over the summer vs when they were opened end of August. Then look at various reports around schools influences on r numbers. Then go have a lie down.

By that logic keep them closed indefinitely.
And you can keep your snide comments to yourself I'm entitled to have an opinion on this topic.

MelbourneMan

Jucifer wrote: »

The government clearly need a change of tactic on schools. The “nothing to see here” strategy is not working. A better strategy, especially if they believe schools to be a safe environment, would be

1) Acknowledge the additional risk that teachers are exposed to, especially during L5 restrictions. Stop telling everyone schools are the safest place you can be. It belittles the role teachers are playing in keeping the show on the road during the pandemic and deviates from the message of “we are all in this together”.

2) Assure all involved, including children, parents and teachers, that the most thorough and robust testing and tracing system will be implemented in schools. Provide assurance that any changes in current knowledge on transmission in schools will be acted on immediately.

3) Work with schools on an ongoing basis to figure out where weaknesses in systems have led to transmission and use this feedback to update guidance to schools on best practice. Listen to the teachers and not just administrators on where failings in the system occur and act in it.

4) Provide clear, timely and honest communication at all times. This will reduce rumours and speculation and gain trust.

I know it is easy to comment from the sidelines but these are basic principles that should be in place if we want to reduce the divisiveness of the issue at present and get everyone on the same page with respect to keeping schools safe during Covid

Hello Jucifer. Unfortunately your posting promulgates erroneous information and I suggest you amend it or ask the forum moderator to do so for you if you cannot access it.

1) The risk is already acknowledged. There is no authoritative information promoting a line of schools are the safest place one can be. Can you reference these ? Teachers are not being belittled, and the call that we are 'all in this together' includes teachers playing their role along with the rest of society.

2) This is already in place. Possibly not to the levels demanded by some, but to the levels considered appropriate by the best advice available.

3) This is already in place.

4) This is already in place.

Any sense of divisiveness is coming from a vocal element in schools that far outweighs the issue.

Loafing Oaf

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello Jucifer. Unfortunately your posting promulgates erroneous information and I suggest you amend it or ask the forum moderator to do so for you if you cannot access it.

wirelessdude01

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello Jucifer. Unfortunately your posting promulgates erroneous information and I suggest you amend it or ask the forum moderator to do so for you if you cannot access it.

1) The risk is already acknowledged. There is no authoritative information promoting a line of schools are the safest place one can be. Can you reference these ? Teachers are not being belittled, and the call that we are 'all in this together' includes teachers playing their role along with the rest of society.

2) This is already in place. Possibly not to the levels demanded by some, but to the levels considered appropriate by the best advice available.

3) This is already in place.

4) This is already in place.

Any sense of divisiveness is coming from a vocal element in schools that far outweighs the issue.

Norma must be so proud of you.

Thats me

Jucifer wrote: »

1) Acknowledge the additional risk that teachers are exposed to, especially during L5 restrictions.

... and pay huge compensation for those who are have to work in higher risk conditions. Just to ensure the cost of teacher's risk is also taken into account

dundalkfc10

https://twitter.com/marktigheST/status/1320142530625884160?s=19

I don't know why people are happy with this ****show

blanch152

Thats me wrote: »

lets me try to guess how this will work. Some child or teacher have got infected somewhere outside of school. For from few days to couple weeks he/she does not develop any symptoms and visiting a school spreading infection around. When he/she finally developed symptoms and checked positively - is not it a little bit too late to rapidly trace anything? Many people could be infected to that moment of time and pass infection to outside of given cluster.

Teacher transmission to students is a concern. However, I fail to understand how a teacher spreads it to other teachers if all the relevant protocols are followed.

blanch152

Thats me wrote: »

Wouldn't closing schools for periods of time when the Country goes into Level 5 help us as a Country to achieve result faster and on more predictable manner? :rolleyes:

The benefit would be very small in comparison to the cost to children’s education.

Unless and until schools are proven to be a major cause of transmission, then they should remain open. Even where there are outbreaks and hotspots, you will find it is due to the protocols being ignored or broken rather than to any systemic issue with the protocols.

Queried

blanch152 wrote: »

The benefit would be very small in comparison to the cost to children’s education.

Unless and until schools are proven to be a major cause of transmission, then they should remain open. Even where there are outbreaks and hotspots, you will find it is due to the protocols being ignored or broken rather than to any systemic issue with the protocols.

Hi blanch152,

I found "you will find it is due to protocols being ignored or broken" quite unfair. In some schools the protocols are impossible to put in place. I work in a classroom of 11-12 year olds who are not required to wear a mask despite being above the age of 10, the age when studies prove one is able to spread the virus at least as effectively as adults. We as a school are doing our very best to do everything we can but considering this fact, and the fact that we cannot practice social distancing in some classroom settings, I would feel very hard done by to be told it was our fault should an outbreak occur.

utmbuilder

I think kayne west said it in his first album, I've got my degrees to keep me warm.

eagle eye

blanch152 wrote:

Unless and until schools are proven to be a major cause of transmission, then they should remain open. Even where there are outbreaks and hotspots, you will find it is due to the protocols being ignored or broken rather than to any systemic issue with the protocols.

Do you know that ecigarettes are banned in many places in this country without any evidence that they cause any harm to anybody?
Why are we willing to do that but then take a chance with our kids?

Thats me

blanch152 wrote: »

Teacher transmission to students is a concern.

Student to student transmission is not a problem? Student to teacher transmission? Student to teacher and back to another student transmission?

blanch152 wrote: »

However, I fail to understand how a teacher spreads it to other teachers if all the relevant protocols are followed.

On my side i fail to understand why we still having new cases at all. Everybody in the country was informed about infection yet in March, measures required for prevention of spreading infection was provided. But we still have new cases and lockdown while covid should be suppressed a long ago.

Thats me

blanch152 wrote: »

The benefit would be very small in comparison to the cost to children’s education.

Could you share your calculations?

irishblessing

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello Jucifer. Unfortunately your posting promulgates erroneous information and I suggest you amend it or ask the forum moderator to do so for you if you cannot access it.

1) The risk is already acknowledged. There is no authoritative information promoting a line of schools are the safest place one can be. Can you reference these ? Teachers are not being belittled, and the call that we are 'all in this together' includes teachers playing their role along with the rest of society.

2) This is already in place. Possibly not to the levels demanded by some, but to the levels considered appropriate by the best advice available.

3) This is already in place.

4) This is already in place.

Any sense of divisiveness is coming from a vocal element in schools that far outweighs the issue.

These are bald faced lies, MelbourneMan.

irishblessing

Let's start by noting you have ignored my direct question asking you what "authority" it is you claim to have; what is your role in government?

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Yes, the same model. While it has been refined somewhat, its predictive accuracy has been confirmed. That we avoided the tens of thousands of deaths that could have resulted without the preventative measures is a testament to the efforts of all involved, and to the Irish people themselves.

There can be no predictive accuracy. We see the same happening in the UK as well. You can't possibly predict what will happen with even the best laid plans because you're leaving out the most crucial element: human nature and cooperation (or lack of). How do you account for Dr. Fauci's (one of the world's leading infectious disease experts) statements on schools not being possible or safe to be open at the highest levels of restrictions here? Oh wait, I know- you've already admitted to the political decision here having outweighed taking the safest course of action. Just be real about it, you're only trying to dress it up to make it more palatable. The point you make about avoiding 10's of thousands of deaths (hypothetically) sort of falls flat on the truth that older people in care homes were destroyed. Will you take accountability for that. And the point is, now the schools are becoming the care homes in a sense and after people are sick and damaged long term or have died because of it, instead of doing the hard work to make schools safer you will simply pontificate about the lives the lockdown saved vs not doing it. Small comfort to those affected.

There is no agenda, as you put it. Simply the best management of the pandemic that we can achieve with available resources.

There certainly is agenda here. See my first point and answer the question please. Your posts smack of trying to cover your own arses, and you refuse to admit to failings. Even Stephen Donnelly has said the track and tracing failure never should have happened and here you are denying it's even failed in any way way. "The best management?" Lol.

Tell me this: have we absolutely no resources and funding available for a more robust and communicative testing and tracing system? So it's a funding issue and not a gov't failing to manage here, that's what you're saying? You apparently had available resources, yet the DES guidelines to reopening the schools were released giving schools a mere 3 weeks to implement. Why wasn't those resources and reopening guidelines made available sooner? Those guidelines were mainly unworkable hence the language all throughout of "where possible." Yet M. Martin visits a school with the media that is very atypical in its ability to have better social distancing and a plexiglass shield for the teacher hanging from the ceiling so don't you dare try and claim there's no agenda. Explain his actions so.

Why aren't masks in primary schools required in line with evidence of children and spread? Why don't teachers have better PPE (masks, plexiglass, microphones provided). Why don't students have more PPE provided (masks, desk plexiglass, non-toxic sanitisers)?

We can't have a better health care system with our resources? It was a shít show long before this pandemic. Why are we dead last in the EU for education funding at the secondary level? Why was a million euro's spent on a f-g printer not fit for purpose? You's aren't doing the best job possible. I see nothing but mismanagement and for a very long time.

'Moving goal posts' have a rather negative connotation, which misrepresents the strategy. Your observation is correct though, that how we counter the progression of the virus requires regular modification of our tactics employed. This is good practice though - not a moving of the target itself which remains containment and supression of the virus.

Well it's had rather a negative impact on our ability to test and trace, hasn't it? How does modifying the definition of close contacts in the schools in such a manner to drastically reduce testing and tracing, different to anywhere else, improve containment and suppression of the virus?

I do not have a 'benefit' as you put it. The absence of the 10000 contacts does not have a great impact on the overall situation, nor of the numbers recorded.

The benefit to your agenda is that you want to cover your arsés politically (and maybe legally) once we have a greater benefit of hindsight. You want to cover the embarrassment of ineptitude.

Please do explain how 10,000 people (and more) slipping through the testing and tracing system does not have a great impact on the situation or numbers recorded. You're going to have to spell this one out.

The temporary reduction in NVRL testing volumes has little to no impact on the testing capability nationally.

'Beefing up' the health system has little impact in the overall scheme of dealing with the crisis. While surge capacity protocols have been implemented any fundamental increase in resources specific to the crisis have little relevance given the time scales of both ramping up such capacity, and the crisis itself.

While we did temporarily exceed testing capacity, on the whole, capacity has been sufficient to our needs. The real consequences of this would seem to have been misrepresented in their severity by a headline hungry media.

That's not what your own government friends have said. There are hospitals already under pressure and at capacity. Certain services have not been able to go ahead further impacting peoples lives in a real scary way. Do you honestly have a clear conscious spouting such absolute rubbish.

Capacity has not been sufficient to our needs, this is obvious and what you're doing here is called gaslighting. Then why are you now hiring, I think the correct figure I'm quoting is 70 more people a week to help with tracing until we're where we need to be to cope with the demand. Many, many people applied for these jobs and they were not hired nor ever heard a thing back. This was a government failing, no doubt about it. Also, the schools should have had their own sector specific test and tracing branch. As we are all aware, school principals and the students and families have all been left hanging and unsafe due to the inability of the HSE to cope.

I do not follow your last question, but if you could expand, would be happy to revert with an answer also.

For someone who seems to have some intelligence, the conclusion here must be in your being deliberately obtuse.
The question was: "It (your modelling) couldn't tell you that very obviously we need a blended remote learning plan for our citizens?"

You know exactly what I'm asking and getting at here.

Other countries have done it. Our uni's and other training programs have done it. It's not rocket science that our society and specifically in the schools are full of people who are high risk. You know this, and you know it because some time was spent coming up with a bs classification system of who was high vs very high risk. Absolutely nothing was done for students, families and staff of higher risk.
Any one of modest intelligence could tell you that it would be obvious that quarantines, closures, and illness were going to happen, and staff shortages- yet absolutely NO planning was done to support these people. Or for our children to have an uninterrupted education on a nationally provided and levelled remote learning plan which is in their best interests. A blended remote learning plan would have given staff and students and their families the choice they need while reducing class sizes, keeping us safer, and reducing community transmission which protects us all and especially our more compromised and elderly (insert Dr. Fauci's statements here again).
You left it for each school to figure out and then a BACKDATED directive was released from the DES telling schools to get it figured out. Our schools, already underfunded severely, need more money and resources. They need IT equipment and support and training. This writing was on the wall back in March, and what did the government/DES do about it all spring/summer/fall? Féck all. A disgrace of a backdated directive.

Sorry for the length, all.
TLDR: MelbourneMan is a government gaslighter which reflects the actions and attitudes of the people he/she works for.
Sinn Fein anyone?

Thats me

irishblessing wrote: »

TLDR: MelbourneMan is a government gaslighter which reflects the actions and attitudes of the people he/she works for.
Sinn Fein anyone?

Who cares about anonimous "authority" which unable unable to provide any factual information.

My bet it some of students playing with automated text generator found in the internet :cool:

irishblessing

Thats me wrote: »

Who cares about anonimous "authority" which unable unable to provide any factual information.

My bet it some of students playing with automated text generator found in the internet :cool:

Ha... well if you look at that poster's history here, he is all over the coronavirus threads attempting to explain government decisions.

It's at least a part time job. I wonder how much he's being paid for this.

Thats me

irishblessing wrote: »

Ha... well if you look at that poster's history here, he is all over the coronavirus threads attempting to explain government decisions.

LOL, this is exactly what i'm doing at the moment...:rolleyes:

But i found no single post where any details and evidence would be provided in addendum to general statements and accusations.

I hope true authority would be able to provide more clear explanations.

irishblessing wrote: »

It's at least a part time job. I wonder how much he's being paid for this.

Why you wondering? Are you looking for spare job?

wirelessdude01

https://twitter.com/Compier_MD/status/1320275616676143106?s=19

Does our resident Dutch correspondent have any thoughts on this?

Icyseanfitz

irishblessing wrote: »

Let's start by noting you have ignored my direct question asking you what "authority" it is you claim to have; what is your role in government?



There can be no predictive accuracy. We see the same happening in the UK as well. You can't possibly predict what will happen with even the best laid plans because you're leaving out the most crucial element: human nature and cooperation (or lack of). How do you account for Dr. Fauci's (one of the world's leading infectious disease experts) statements on schools not being possible or safe to be open at the highest levels of restrictions here? Oh wait, I know- you've already admitted to the political decision here having outweighed taking the safest course of action. Just be real about it, you're only trying to dress it up to make it more palatable. The point you make about avoiding 10's of thousands of deaths (hypothetically) sort of falls flat on the truth that older people in care homes were destroyed. Will you take accountability for that. And the point is, now the schools are becoming the care homes in a sense and after people are sick and damaged long term or have died because of it, instead of doing the hard work to make schools safer you will simply pontificate about the lives the lockdown saved vs not doing it. Small comfort to those affected.



There certainly is agenda here. See my first point and answer the question please. Your posts smack of trying to cover your own arses, and you refuse to admit to failings. Even Stephen Donnelly has said the track and tracing failure never should have happened and here you are denying it's even failed in any way way. "The best management?" Lol.

Tell me this: have we absolutely no resources and funding available for a more robust and communicative testing and tracing system? So it's a funding issue and not a gov't failing to manage here, that's what you're saying? You apparently had available resources, yet the DES guidelines to reopening the schools were released giving schools a mere 3 weeks to implement. Why wasn't those resources and reopening guidelines made available sooner? Those guidelines were mainly unworkable hence the language all throughout of "where possible." Yet M. Martin visits a school with the media that is very atypical in its ability to have better social distancing and a plexiglass shield for the teacher hanging from the ceiling so don't you dare try and claim there's no agenda. Explain his actions so.

Why aren't masks in primary schools required in line with evidence of children and spread? Why don't teachers have better PPE (masks, plexiglass, microphones provided). Why don't students have more PPE provided (masks, desk plexiglass, non-toxic sanitisers)?

We can't have a better health care system with our resources? It was a shít show long before this pandemic. Why are we dead last in the EU for education funding at the secondary level? Why was a million euro's spent on a f-g printer not fit for purpose? You's aren't doing the best job possible. I see nothing but mismanagement and for a very long time.



Well it's had rather a negative impact on our ability to test and trace, hasn't it? How does modifying the definition of close contacts in the schools in such a manner to drastically reduce testing and tracing, different to anywhere else, improve containment and suppression of the virus?



The benefit to your agenda is that you want to cover your arsés politically (and maybe legally) once we have a greater benefit of hindsight. You want to cover the embarrassment of ineptitude.

Please do explain how 10,000 people (and more) slipping through the testing and tracing system does not have a great impact on the situation or numbers recorded. You're going to have to spell this one out.



That's not what your own government friends have said. There are hospitals already under pressure and at capacity. Certain services have not been able to go ahead further impacting peoples lives in a real scary way. Do you honestly have a clear conscious spouting such absolute rubbish.

Capacity has not been sufficient to our needs, this is obvious and what you're doing here is called gaslighting. Then why are you now hiring, I think the correct figure I'm quoting is 70 more people a week to help with tracing until we're where we need to be to cope with the demand. Many, many people applied for these jobs and they were not hired nor ever heard a thing back. This was a government failing, no doubt about it. Also, the schools should have had their own sector specific test and tracing branch. As we are all aware, school principals and the students and families have all been left hanging and unsafe due to the inability of the HSE to cope.



For someone who seems to have some intelligence, the conclusion here must be in your being deliberately obtuse.
The question was: "It (your modelling) couldn't tell you that very obviously we need a blended remote learning plan for our citizens?"

You know exactly what I'm asking and getting at here.

Other countries have done it. Our uni's and other training programs have done it. It's not rocket science that our society and specifically in the schools are full of people who are high risk. You know this, and you know it because some time was spent coming up with a bs classification system of who was high vs very high risk. Absolutely nothing was done for students, families and staff of higher risk.
Any one of modest intelligence could tell you that it would be obvious that quarantines, closures, and illness were going to happen, and staff shortages- yet absolutely NO planning was done to support these people. Or for our children to have an uninterrupted education on a nationally provided and levelled remote learning plan which is in their best interests. A blended remote learning plan would have given staff and students and their families the choice they need while reducing class sizes, keeping us safer, and reducing community transmission which protects us all and especially our more compromised and elderly (insert Dr. Fauci's statements here again).
You left it for each school to figure out and then a BACKDATED directive was released from the DES telling schools to get it figured out. Our schools, already underfunded severely, need more money and resources. They need IT equipment and support and training. This writing was on the wall back in March, and what did the government/DES do about it all spring/summer/fall? Féck all. A disgrace of a backdated directive.

Sorry for the length, all.
TLDR: MelbourneMan is a government gaslighter which reflects the actions and attitudes of the people he/she works for.
Sinn Fein anyone?

Well said

Icyseanfitz

https://extra.ie/2020/10/25/news/irish-news/almost-40-of-schools-have-had-a-positive-covid-19-diagnosis-amid-growing-concern-from-parents

40% of schools have had a positive case.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Compier_MD/status/1320275616676143106?s=19

Does our resident Dutch correspondent have any thoughts on this?

If you read to the end of the page, the petition has been signed by a total of 96 people. The population here is about 14 million. The hospitality sector have a similar initiative to get bars and restaurants reopened, does that make it the best course of action?

Just wondering, did you translate it or was it already in English?

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

If you read to the end of the page, the petition has been signed by a total of 96 people. The population here is about 14 million. The hospitality sector have a similar initiative to get bars and restaurants reopened, does that make it the best course of action?

Just wondering, did you translate it or was it already in English?

I didn't translate anything.

The video makes for interesting viewing though.

Thats me

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just wondering, did you translate it or was it already in English?

Why not to check out the link yourself? https://veiligonderwijs.org/articles/background?lang=en

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I didn't translate anything.

The video makes for interesting viewing though.

Maybe it was interesting, 6 months ago, when it aired. I honestly can’t remember.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I didn't translate anything.

The video makes for interesting viewing though.

Maybe it was interesting, 6 months ago, when it aired. I honestly can’t remember.

irishblessing

Thats me wrote: »

LOL, this is exactly what i'm doing at the moment...:rolleyes:

But i found no single post where any details and evidence would be provided in addendum to general statements and accusations.

I hope true authority would be able to provide more clear explanations.



Why you wondering? Are you looking for spare job?

Haha, well you know probably a good idea these days :P

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

If you read to the end of the page, the petition has been signed by a total of 96 people. The population here is about 14 million. The hospitality sector have a similar initiative to get bars and restaurants reopened, does that make it the best course of action?

Just wondering, did you translate it or was it already in English?

Maybe a badly circulated petition isn't the point.

Maybe this is:

Lawsuit is coördinated by
@ContainmentNow
,
@ZeroCovAlliance

parents, teachers, schools
and thousands of supporters of human rights who have contributed to this in spirit and donations.

Thats me

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Dutch people are taking their government to court on allowing #COVID19 to spread through their children. https://t.co/wgagYReApw

— Compier MD #ZeroCovid (@Compier_MD) October 25, 2020

They seem desperate.. Netherlands has 4.37 times higher new cases per capita than Ireland :eek:

Thats me

irishblessing wrote: »

Haha, well you know probably a good idea these days :P

Why not, this will save whole Irish economics! :P

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

Maybe a badly circulated petition isn't the point.

Maybe this is:

Lawsuit is coördinated by
@ContainmentNow
,
@ZeroCovAlliance

parents, teachers, schools
and thousands of supporters of human rights who have contributed to this in spirit and donations.

Where are you getting this from? All of these are in English, which means that it’s probably not even a Dutch initiative- most likely dreamed up by bored stay at home trailing spouses. Plus the pages seem to be broken now. They haven’t even managed to raise enough money to bring it to court, unlike the hospitality sector.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? All of these are in English, which means that it’s probably not even a Dutch initiative- most likely dreamed up by bored stay at home trailing spouses. Plus the pages seem to be broken now. They haven’t even managed to raise enough money to bring it to court, unlike the hospitality sector.

Plenty of Dutch towards the end of it.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Plenty of Dutch towards the end of it.

Nothing I say will make you believe that there is no support for this, but there’s no support for this. It’s a Twitter user reposting 6 month old current affairs panel shows.