Schools closed until February? (part 3)

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nothing I say will make you believe that there is no support for this, but there’s no support for this. It’s a Twitter user reposting 6 month old current affairs panel shows.

You said it was all English, just point out that that was incorrect.

khalessi

Something to put a smile on your faces, all ye schitthead fans

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You said it was all English, just point out that that was incorrect.

Take the last word if it’s so important to you, it doesn’t change the fact that there’s no support for the initiative. Schools are closing and reopening as necessary if cases arise.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Take the last word if it’s so important to you, it doesn’t change the fact that there’s no support for the initiative. Schools are closing and reopening as necessary if cases arise.

Did I say there was any support?

khalessi

https://extra.ie/2020/10/25/news/irish-news/almost-40-of-schools-have-had-a-positive-covid-19-diagnosis-amid-growing-concern-from-parents?fbclid=IwAR2BQtomb_3_bGvbk0MMeFI4HyaEM5RWH0cf_SjPIAF0iUWnZkMhmWxAuoo
Almost 40% of schools HAVE had a positive COVID-19 diagnosis amid growing concern from parents

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Did I say there was any support?

My original response was to this post:

irishblessing wrote: »

Maybe a badly circulated petition isn't the point.

Maybe this is:

Lawsuit is coördinated by
@ContainmentNow
,
@ZeroCovAlliance

parents, teachers, schools
and thousands of supporters of human rights who have contributed to this in spirit and donations.

I would appreciate if you would stay on topic and stop attacking everything I post.

Thats me

khalessi wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/10/25/news/irish-news/almost-40-of-schools-have-had-a-positive-covid-19-diagnosis-amid-growing-concern-from-parents?fbclid=IwAR2BQtomb_3_bGvbk0MMeFI4HyaEM5RWH0cf_SjPIAF0iUWnZkMhmWxAuoo
Almost 40% of schools HAVE had a positive COVID-19 diagnosis amid growing concern from parents

Icyseanfitz has already pointed this article on previous page.. But thanks anyway!

khalessi

Thats me wrote: »

Icyseanfitz has already pointed this article on previous page.. But thanks anyway!

Missed that

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

My original response was to this post:



I would appreciate if you would stay on topic and stop attacking everything I post.

Kindly report me then if you think I'm "attacking" you. Think you may need some actual evidence of same to go through with a report though, so think I'll sleep easy.

Thats me

khalessi wrote: »

Missed that

No worries, many others could easily miss this strong article behind discussion of why Dutch writing in English..

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? All of these are in English, which means that it’s probably not even a Dutch initiative- most likely dreamed up by bored stay at home trailing spouses. Plus the pages seem to be broken now. They haven’t even managed to raise enough money to bring it to court, unlike the hospitality sector.

it would serve you better to actually open the links people post up and then consider them, before automatically dismissing. If you had, you wouldn't have asked this.

irishblessing

Would anyone be able/willing to take this on:

What is the current definition of a close contact in the schools?

What is the current definition of a close contact everywhere else?

Can you list any/all changes to the working definition of a close contact in the schools please?

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

it would serve you better to actually open the links people post up and then consider them, before automatically dismissing. If you had, you wouldn't have asked this.

There are no links there, just Twitter handles for Gemma O Doherty type organizations.

Beasty

wirelessdude01 and Lillyfae - I suggest putting each other on ignore as if you continue this toing and froing I'll threadban you

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

There are no links there, just Twitter handles for Gemma O Doherty type organizations.

No links there, except the twitter handle & article links :pac:

You asked where I got my comment from. Again, you could actually click on the links?

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

No links there, except the twitter handle & article links :pac:

You asked where I got my comment from. Again, you could actually click on the links?

My provider must be blocking them, I only see Twitter handles in your post.

expectationlost

Concerns raised about advice to teachers and special needs assistants to turn off app https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Covid-app-switch-off-Concerns-raised-about-advice-to-teachers-and-special-needs-assistants-a22ee7f0-d898-445d-be9e-20f1b3b5ac6f-ds

In correspondence from a HSE official, seen by The Echo, it is stated: “In regard to teachers and SNAs, I understand that the advice is turn off bluetooth while they are at work.”

because the app is for strangers, not colleagues

Thats me

irishblessing wrote: »

Would anyone be able/willing to take this on:

What is the current definition of a close contact in the schools?

What is the current definition of a close contact everywhere else?

Can you list any/all changes to the working definition of a close contact in the schools please?

Close contact, HSE' version

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

My provider must be blocking them, I only see Twitter handles in your post.

I didn't post it.... its not really important anyway, lets move on.

xhomelezz

Thats me wrote: »

Close contact, HSE' version

Love this part..

Spending more than 2 hours in an indoor space with someone who has COVID-19 will sometimes count as close or casual contact. This could be an office or a classroom. But it will depend on the size of the room and other factors. Public health doctors or contact tracers will let you know if you are at risk during contact tracing and public health risk assessments.

irishblessing

Thats me wrote: »

Close contact, HSE' version

Thanks for that.

So... how does this make sense?

Close contact

This is only a guide but close contact can mean:

-spending more than 15 minutes of face-to-face contact within 2 metres of someone who has COVID-19, indoor or outdoor
-living in the same house or shared accommodation as someone who has COVID-19
sitting within 2 seats of someone who has COVID-19 on public transport or an airplane
Spending more than 2 hours in an indoor space with someone who has COVID-19 will sometimes count as close or casual contact. This could be an office or a classroom. But it will depend on the size of the room and other factors.

wirelessdude01

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1320209842859134977?s=19

New Princeton study indicates children are a factor in spreading the virus

Thats me

irishblessing wrote: »

But it will depend on the size of the room and other factors.

I afraid nobody knows these factors.. Starting from the point it is practically impposible to predict air streams in general building which was not planned for work with biohazard materials.

Beasty

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Dr...209842859134977?s=19

New Princeton study indicates children are a factor in spreading the virus

You need to fix that link

wirelessdude01

Beasty wrote: »

You need to fix that link

Done.

irishblessing

Thats me wrote: »

I afraid nobody knows these factors.. Starting from the point it is practically impposible to predict air streams in general building which was not planned for work with biohazard materials.

We've heard of accounts from the staff in schools saying that room size/distance of pods etc weren't taken into account so, bad training or deliberate?

And then there was the teacher that insisted on her class being tested when the HSE didn't want to and found 7 additional positive cases.

In light of all that happening together with the collapse of the tracing system, being asked to self contact, the HSE not contacting some schools right away and principals/BOM's having to make difficult decisions, and the failure of the large UCD lab to stay open, certain points of data being spouted by the government and HSE are seriously flawed. How could they not be.

Thats me

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1320209842859134977?s=19

New Princeton study indicates children are a factor in spreading the virus

Obsolete information! That was published 30th of September.



The overwhelming evidence from our public health experts, that schools are a safe environment for our school communities, children and staff members disproving that.

wirelessdude01

Thats me wrote: »

Obsolete information! That was published 30th of September.



The overwhelming evidence from our public health experts, that schools are a safe environment for our school communities, children and staff members disproving that.

Of course.

Thats me

irishblessing wrote: »

We've heard of accounts from the staff in schools saying that room size/distance of pods etc weren't taken into account so, bad training or deliberate?

In firs stance i have no idea where distance requirement is coming from - this is likely the max dinstance on which salvia droplets could travel before landing. But exhausted aerosol would stay in the air drifting with air streams. Personally i'm not sure any distance/room size would guarantee safety, therefore avoiding any public spaces.

irishblessing wrote: »

And then there was the teacher that insisted on her class being tested when the HSE didn't want to and found 7 additional positive cases.

Who could expect!!!

irishblessing wrote: »

In light of all that happening together with the collapse of the tracing system, being asked to self contact, the HSE not contacting some schools right away and principals/BOM's having to make difficult decisions, and the failure of the large UCD lab to stay open, certain points of data being spouted by the government and HSE are seriously flawed. How could they not be.

I know only one thing: wherever humans involved there always will be place for any mistakes. The faster we will stop pandemy the less time we will have to make mistakes the less people will become victims of these mistakes. Closing schools will definitely help to stop it faster, therefore schools should be closed.

frank8211

blanch152 wrote: »

It has been the foundation stone of the union's payclaims for the last forty years, how education is essential to Ireland's future, now, when they are asked to put their shoulder to the wheel to back it up, they are suddenly not so essential.

Education is essential. A method of delivery of it that goes back to 1800s, involving classes of 30 sitting in front of a teacher all day is not only not essential, it dates from horse and cart era

Str8outtaWuhan

frank8211 wrote: »

Education is essential. A method of delivery of it that goes back to 1800s, involving classes of 30 sitting in front of a teacher all day is not only not essential, it dates from horse and cart era

Tell that to Japan, Shanghai, S. Korea, Hong Kong. They all follow the same way we do, large classes, Chalk n talk, grind schools, rote learning, Strict discipline and they are all at the top of the PISA/TIMMS every time they come out.

Icyseanfitz

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Tell that to Japan, Shanghai, S. Korea, Hong Kong. They all follow the same way we do, large classes, Chalk n talk, grind schools, rote learning, Strict discipline and they are all at the top of the PISA/TIMMS every time they come out.

Have you links to back up that countries such as Japan and Korea haven't reduced class sizes and are not making use of remote/hybrid learning? I find it hard to believe.

Str8outtaWuhan

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Have you links to back up that countries such as Japan and Korea haven't reduced class sizes and are not making use of remote/hybrid learning? I find it hard to believe.

i assumed we were talking pre covid? plenty data here but we have lower primary PTR and upper secondary than China et al. I've spent time in SK working for Samsung and The education is insane there. Everything still based around teacher in classroom , tech is purely for support, teacher is everything. There is a reason Asians value education so much its not just a trope on TV.

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SE.SEC.ENRL.TC.ZS/compare?country=cn#country=cn:ie

Boggles

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1320369510566723584

8k71ps

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Have you links to back up that countries such as Japan and Korea haven't reduced class sizes and are not making use of remote/hybrid learning? I find it hard to believe.

South Korea in particular had a phased opening , they close the school if even a single case is detected , have obligatory masks for all age groups, keep to normal social distancing guidelines within the schools and have temperature checks in the entrance of every school. Students and teachers aren't even allowed to mingle during Lunch. It is so hilariously different that our statistics are either clearly wrong or Irish people have some form of genetic immunity, I cannot fathom how our approach is so lackluster yet apparently is producing similar results when we know children transmit the virus.

8k71ps

Thats me wrote: »

Obsolete information! That was published 30th of September.



The overwhelming evidence from our public health experts, that schools are a safe environment for our school communities, children and staff members disproving that.

There can be no overwhelming evidence from a system whose contact tracing system has been broken in general for at least a week and broken for teachers since the very beginning, provides bizarre and lop-sided advice to teachers and uses international statistics only when it suits what they were going to do anyways.

wirelessdude01

Well done Seamus and Angela. Two very active principals on social media.

Especially to Angela for calling Michael Martin out on the BS that they have engaged with principals.

Icyseanfitz

8k71ps wrote: »

South Korea in particular had a phased opening , they close the school if even a single case is detected , have obligatory masks for all age groups, keep to normal social distancing guidelines within the schools and have temperature checks in the entrance of every school. Students and teachers aren't even allowed to mingle during Lunch. It is so hilariously different that our statistics are either clearly wrong or Irish people have some form of genetic immunity, I cannot fathom how our approach is so lackluster yet apparently is producing similar results when we know children transmit the virus.

id assume many asian countries are working in a similar way, Its amazing how we dismiss the way they do things

Queried

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well done Seamus and Angela. Two very active principals on social media.

Especially to Angela for calling Michael Martin out on the BS that they have engaged with principals.

Missed the interview, any chance you wouldn't mind giving a brief summary of it?

Thats me

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

id assume many asian countries are working in a similar way, Its amazing how we dismiss the way they do things

There is cultural difference... When Asians said to wear mask and isolate, what you think they do - filling pubs, assembling into huge parties or dense crowds protesting against wearing masks? No, they are wearing masks and isolate. So they can maintain infection more or less under cotrol.

wirelessdude01

Queried wrote: »

Missed the interview, any chance you wouldn't mind giving a brief summary of it?

Angela's is linked above. Seamus was along the same lines.

Queried

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Angela's is linked above. Seamus was along the same lines.

Thanks wirelessdude01, I was wondering if they were live on Virgin Media News, will check out Seamus' interview too.

wirelessdude01

Queried wrote: »

Thanks wirelessdude01, I was wondering if they were live on Virgin Media News, will check out Seamus' interview too.

Prerecorded pieces.

deiseindublin

Queried wrote: »

Missed the interview, any chance you wouldn't mind giving a brief summary of it?

She basically said DES couldn't continue engaging with principals when they hadn't started.
Said a joke to say there were pods when all students using same bathrooms and breathing the same air for 5+ hours.

delly

Don't a lot of Asian countries work on a collectivistic mindset? I can't say I know much about it, but they basically do things for the benefit of the group rather than the individual. We don't have that mindset and it's not something you can just assimilate even if you think you're doing good work for the wider society.

irishblessing

delly wrote: »

Don't a lot of Asian countries work on a collectivistic mindset? I can't say I know much about it, but they basically do things for the benefit of the group rather than the individual. We don't have that mindset and it's not something you can just assimilate even if you think you're doing good work for the wider society.

America has that same problem... :rolleyes:

Beasty

Following assurances given by the poster Blondini's threadban is now lifted

irishblessing

Welcome back Blondini

New development-

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

New system to speed up contact tracing in schools

Still some horsesh-t in the article though.

Icyseanfitz

irishblessing wrote: »

Welcome back Blondini

New development-

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

New system to speed up contact tracing in schools

Still some horsesh-t in the article though.

It just reeks of bull**** to try and placate the unions and parents imo, what will this "new plan" Actually do.

wirelessdude01

irishblessing wrote: »

Welcome back Blondini

New development-

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

New system to speed up contact tracing in schools

Still some horsesh-t in the article though.

Quite where they are pulling these teachers from is beyond me.

I'm saying that panels of vetted 'civilians' will be established to supervise.