Schools closed until February? (part 3)

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

Which is totally pointless, because Boards.ie and it's users are not responsible for implementing anything in schools.

Lobby your unions with this. Have your union push it forward, loudly and clearly, to government. Every extra argument made is diluting every argument that came before it so focus on the most important things and cut out the rest of the noise.

You're not listening. They have lobbied. It's been ignored. That's why we're in this mess.

Lillyfae

eviltwin wrote: »

It doesn't answer my question though. Why are clusters in other sectors openly shared but schools aren't?

Do you know what the definition of a cluster is? It's a group of cases in one place which is more than would have been expected for that place. What if 2 children in a class have Covid-19, but it was picked up at the local GAA club, where 10 people are infected? Where is that cluster coming from?

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any thoughts (particularly from Teachers) on an extended Mid-Term Break at this point ?

Not sure where this started from but heard a fair few versions of this floating about as rumours yesterday.

If it does happen then it needs to be an all-island approach.

Personally I think a week or two bolted onto both sides of Christmas might be more palatable to the Government. Listening to Leo the other night he seemed to be playingf or time, plus he kept making the point that plans need to be formulated.

irishblessing

Originally Posted by irishblessing

If the government really wanted to prioritise schools remaining open then they would have implemented a phased reopening, an earlier released plan so that changes-especially structural- could actually be completed, provided more PPE, and a sensible hybrid remote learning plan as well as requiring masks for primary students where SD and ventilation in the classroom are poor.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Agreed, but secret communion parties and teachers sharing lifts to work are not the government's fault, are they? And that is what is driving community transmission.

More disingenuous posting, seems to be your style. I've commented the above in response to you saying the government have prioritised schools staying open. I've pointed out where they fell far short of that mark.
What has a "secret communion party" (where was this? One or two here and there? Hardly "driving community transmission") have to do with the risks in the school environment of children becoming infected and bringing home to their families, or their school teachers/staff contracting it due to lack of proper preparations?
What you've just done is a red herring. You're distracting from the actual point being put forward. Which is that schools are unsafe regardless and because of what is happening in the community specifically.

SusanC10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not sure where this started from but heard a fair few versions of 4his this floating about as rumours yesterday.

If it does happen then it needs to be an all-island approach.

Personally I think a week or two bolted onto both sides of Christmas might be more palatable to the Government. Listening to Leo the other night he seemed to be playingf or time, plus he kept making the point that plans need to be formulated.

Yep, one of the other Mum's posted to our Class WhatsApp group that there was talk of a 2 week Mid-Term.

Christmas probably makes a lot of sense though.

irishblessing

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not sure where this started from but heard a fair few versions of this floating about as rumours yesterday.

If it does happen then it needs to be an all-island approach.

Personally I think a week or two bolted onto both sides of Christmas might be more palatable to the Government. Listening to Leo the other night he seemed to be playingf or time, plus he kept making the point that plans need to be formulated.

I missed this interview from Leo; any chance you have a link? I'd like to check it out.

wirelessdude01

irishblessing wrote: »

I missed this interview from Leo; any chance you have a link? I'd like to check it out.

Claire Byrne from Monday night. The one where he opened a new one for the CMO.

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

What has a "secret communion party" (where was this? One or two here and there? Hardly "driving community transmission") have to do with the risks in the school environment of children becoming infected and bringing home to their families, or their school teachers/staff contracting it due to lack of proper preparations?
What you've just done is a red herring. You're distracting from the actual point being put forward. Which is that schools are unsafe regardless and because of what is happening in the community specifically.

It's disingenuous to suggest that these and other unnecessary interactions aren't happening, making communities and schools more unsafe. Of course if there are clusters in the community, this is going to adversely affect schools (I have never disputed that) but that does not mean that the school is driving transmission.

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's disingenuous to suggest that these and other unnecessary interactions aren't happening, making communities and schools more unsafe. Of course if there are clusters in the community, this is going to adversely affect schools (I have never disputed that) but that does not mean that the school is driving transmission.

You made the point that secret communion parties were "driving community transmission." Have you got any proof to back up that claim?

I never suggested anything of the sort, so lose the disingenuous finger pointing. This isn't Simon says.
I also never said schools are driving transmission. Please do try keep to what's actually being said, instead of either embellishing or plucking things out of thin air.

Lillyfae

irishblessing wrote: »

You made the point that secret communion parties were "driving community transmission." Have you got any proof to back up that claim?

I never suggested anything of the sort, so lose the disingenuous finger pointing. This isn't Simon says.
I also never said schools are driving transmission. Please do try keep to what's actually being said, instead of either embellishing or plucking things out of thin air.

There is absolutely no need to be so aggressive. This is a stressful time for everyone, and everyone on this thread has a right to put their point across.

There is a lot of talk here that schools are responsible for driving transmission. I never said that you said that, I am just pointing out how the evidence doesn't support that because there is conflation of the issues. You yourself mentioned new dresses and bouncy castles for communions a few pages back, and how they're highly unnecessary- why would you say that unless you thought it was risky? Experts agree with you, by the way:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/communion-and-confirmation-parties-and-travel-across-border-fuel-covid-surge-expert-warns-39561204.html

Icyseanfitz

What happens if your waiting on test results, when you get a positive you isolate for 14 days. But when you get a negative, do you then isolate for 48h or are you straight back in to work the next day?

Icyseanfitz

Lillyfae wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to be so aggressive. This is a stressful time for everyone, and everyone on this thread has a right to put their point across.

There is a lot of talk here that schools are responsible for driving transmission. I never said that you said that, I am just pointing out how the evidence doesn't support that because there is conflation of the issues. You yourself mentioned new dresses and bouncy castles for communions a few pages back, and how they're highly unnecessary- why would you say that unless you thought it was risky?

Schools are certainly adding to the spread, how can they possibly not be?

TexasTornado

irishblessing wrote: »

I missed this interview from Leo; any chance you have a link? I'd like to check it out.

Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Stephen Donnelly

Lillyfae

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Schools are certainly adding to the spread, how can they possibly not be?

Of course they will, if people aren't washing their hands, staying at home and isolating when sick, not avoiding unnecessary interactions.

irishblessing

TexasTornado wrote: »

Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Stephen Donnelly

hahaha thanks for the laugh :pac:

Icyseanfitz

Lillyfae wrote: »

Of course they will, if people aren't washing their hands, staying at home and isolating when sick, not avoiding unnecessary interactions.

So if they are adding to the spread, which you agree with, are they not in part driving the spread of covid

Lillyfae

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

So if they are adding to the spread, which you agree with, are they not in part driving the spread of covid

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to be so aggressive. This is a stressful time for everyone, and everyone on this thread has a right to put their point across.

There is a lot of talk here that schools are responsible for driving transmission. I never said that you said that, I am just pointing out how the evidence doesn't support that because there is conflation of the issues. You yourself mentioned new dresses and bouncy castles for communions a few pages back, and how they're highly unnecessary- why would you say that unless you thought it was risky? Experts agree with you, by the way:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/communion-and-confirmation-parties-and-travel-across-border-fuel-covid-surge-expert-warns-39561204.html

"Agressive" :rolleyes: That's where you're going now? I guess it makes sense following on from your disingenuous posting style, and use of hyperbole & red herrings.

Schools are one of the drivers. I don't believe anyone said they are "the" driver. Is that so hard to understand?

Yes communion gatherings are risky and I think in this climate are unnecessary and need to be rethought to focus on just the individual ceremony itself if that's of importance. Not sure what you meant by "secret communion parties are driving community transmission." You're the one saying this specific thing is driving it. Could you explain further on what you see as an issue with "secret" communion parties for Ireland?

Icyseanfitz

Lillyfae wrote: »

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

School is community, it doesn't work in isolation, every child has a family, who either also go to a school or work, everything is connected.

irishblessing

Lillyfae wrote: »

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

But they won't, unfortunately. Isn't there another anti-mask protest happening either today or very soon?

I know people and have neighbours who have carried on as normal since the start.

Icyseanfitz

Lillyfae wrote: »

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

Just as an aside, we have had so many students sent in sick this week, its a disgrace, people arnt all good and sensible, quite a lot are selfish and short sighted.

irishblessing

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

School is community, it doesn't work in isolation, every child has a family, who either also go to a school or work, everything is connected.

Yes... and GAA (before they closed) and scouts, and after school clubs or minders, and music lessons, and....

Lillyfae

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Just as an aside, we have had so many students sent in sick this week, its a disgrace, people arnt all good and sensible, quite a lot are selfish and short sighted.

Highly irresponsible, you have my sympathy. I hope the parents are being immediately pulled up on it. I really think that this should be a matter for Tusla if it's repeatedly happening in families.

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes... and GAA (before they closed) and scouts, and after school clubs or minders, and music lessons, and....

School and childcare are essential, GAA and scouts are not essential.

wirelessdude01

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

What happens if your waiting on test results, when you get a positive you isolate for 14 days. But when you get a negative, do you then isolate for 48h or are you straight back in to work the next day?

48hrs after symptoms disappear.

Icyseanfitz

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes... and GAA (before they closed) and scouts, and after school clubs or minders, and music lessons, and....

Exactly one case in any of those can turn into a cluster when brought into a classroom (which is happening). Its easy to say cases are originating in the community even though school is connected to every aspect of it.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

You're not listening. They have lobbied. It's been ignored. That's why we're in this mess.

What mess is that? Can someone explain me what special mess is Ireland in that other countries around Europe are not? As far I know all have schools reopened (some exceptions in Cz rep) and and awful lot of European countries are recording record numbers of infections including before mentioned Czechia. So what makes Corona mess in Ireland so special?

BonsaiKitten

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any thoughts (particularly from Teachers) on an extended Mid-Term Break at this point ?

We've discussed that among my staff. Our thinking was that it's fairly sensible but as someone else pointed out you'd probably need to take a whole island approach. Christmas is already 2 weeks so I don't know if they'd add time to that.

I'd actually love a 2 week Halloween as it would mean I can change my pod groups! We have been told not to change them unless there's a 14 day gap (which is nonsense imo but here we are). I usually change up the groupings very frequently and having them set for so long is driving me mad.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I'd actually love a 2 week Halloween as it would mean I can change my pod groups! We have been told not to change them unless there's a 14 day gap (which is nonsense imo but here we are). I usually change up the groupings very frequently and having them set for so long is driving me mad.

We've been told the same, can only be done at Christmas. I would normally change mine every fortnight.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

What mess is that? Can someone explain me what special mess is Ireland in that other countries around Europe are not? As far I know all have schools reopened (some exceptions in Cz rep) and and awful lot of European countries are recording record numbers of infections including before mentioned Czechia. So what makes Corona mess in Ireland so special?

I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not.

"The mess" refers to the fact that the school environment is unsafe and not conducive to an uninterrupted education for our children.

The teachers, staff and students are not protected enough from a lack of PPE, to overcrowded classrooms, to lack of a hybrid remote learning plan, to complacency and last but not least a sham of tracking & tracing cases.

Teachers, staff and families who either themselves, their children or both are at high risk and have ZERO alternative options to educate their children while remaining safe at home.

Students and staff who become ill, or need to quarantine and there is no national plan b for them to continue their education at home or teach. Schools may now close at the higher levels of shutdown, and yet still- no national plan for how our children are to still be educated. Other countries have put their thinking caps on and their shoulders to the wheel and come up with plans that can ensure families and students have the best, safest options to choose from that work for them and in the face of closures or indeed delayed in person teaching altogether because outbreaks in the area are too high.
Our own uni's and various college courses have moved online. It's a disgrace this hasn't been delivered on a nationwide scale to all in Ireland.

As I've said before I have many family and friends in the US, Canada, and another close friend is in Mexico. These countries have all implemented this with FAR, far higher regional and population complexity. Our problem? Apathy, laziness, and a lack of imagination and forward thinking in government. I'm disgusted more than I can ever remember being tbh.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not.

"The mess" refers to the fact that the school environment is unsafe and not conducive to an uninterrupted education for our children.

The teachers, staff and students are not protected enough from a lack of PPE, to overcrowded classrooms, to lack of a hybrid remote learning plan, to complacency and last but not least a sham of tracking & tracing cases.

Teachers, staff and families who either themselves, their children or both are at high risk and have ZERO alternative options to educate their children while remaining safe at home.

Students and staff who become ill, or need to quarantine and there is no national plan b for them to continue their education at home or teach. Schools may now close at the higher levels of shutdown, and yet still- no national plan for how our children are to still be educated. Other countries have put their thinking caps on and their shoulders to the wheel and come up with plans that can ensure families and students have the best, safest options to choose from that work for them and in the face of closures or indeed delayed in person teaching altogether because outbreaks in the area are too high.
Our own uni's and various college courses have moved online. It's a disgrace this hasn't been delivered on a nationwide scale to all in Ireland.

As I've said before I have many family and friends in the US, Canada, and another close friend is in Mexico. These countries have all implemented this with FAR, far higher regional and population complexity. Our problem? Apathy, laziness, and a lack of imagination and forward thinking in government. I'm disgusted more than I can ever remember being tbh.

In other words we are doing fine in comparison to the rest of Europe.