Trump vs Biden 2020, Ultimate battle for the fate of our universe (pt 3)Read OP 01/11

Ardillaun

Deleted User wrote: »

Somehow I doubt J Biden is a humanitarian himself.

The point is he feels the need to behave that way which is a good thing. Hypocrisy is a virtue in politicians; it shows they respect norms. Having a leader who doesn’t laugh and openly prefers the company of mass murderers is not a step in the right direction.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Well I'm inviting discussion and reasons why these are incorrect. Are you able to contribute anything?

You're not inviting discussing, you're making **** up and using possible scenarios as proof. It's called confirmation bias.

Quin_Dub

Ardillaun wrote: »

The point is he feels the need to behave that way which is a good thing. Hypocrisy is a virtue in politicians; it shows they respect norms. Having a leader who doesn’t laugh and openly prefers the company of mass murderers is not a step in the right direction.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree that Biden is "pretending to care" , the simple fact that Trump , even knowing that it might look better still can't manage to connect with people on a human level beyond the visceral "They are enemies" tropes is extremely telling of his true nature.

He's not a sociopath or anything , but his world view is centred entirely around himself.

How does it make him feel , How does it make him look , How does it benefit him?

If the answer to any of the above is in the negative , he's just not interested in even pretending to give a damn.

Overheal

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You're not inviting discussing, you're making **** up and using possible scenarios as proof. It's called confirmation bias.

Alongside feigning expertise in disaster data recovery etc.

Call Me Jimmy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Whilst I don't necessarily agree that Biden is "pretending to care" , the simple fact that Trump , even knowing that it might look better still can't manage to connect with people on a human level beyond the visceral "They are enemies" tropes is extremely telling of his true nature.

He's not a sociopath or anything , but his world view is centred entirely around himself.

How does it make him feel , How does it make him look , How does it benefit him?

If the answer to any of the above is in the negative , he's just not interested in even pretending to give a damn.

He is a narcissist to the point that it forces him to be a populist, I happen to think populism is needed at this moment in time so I'm willing to overlook that he doesn't pay lip service to the norms or struggle to show us he really cares. I find that stuff condescending because I know for a fact none of these people who are near the top in the US actually care.

What are they doing, on the macro scale. That's what is important to me as it pertains to the US. I don't care what policies they want for themselves. Free healthcare etc. work away, but when it comes to things that I think will have knock on effects for the rest of the world that's what I find important in the leaders of the US.

Quin_Dub

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

He is a narcissist to the point that it forces him to be a populist, I happen to think populism is needed at this moment in time so I'm willing to overlook that he doesn't pay lip service to the norms or struggle to show us he really cares. I find that stuff condescending because I know for a fact none of these people who are near the top in the US actually care.

What are they doing, on the macro scale. That's what is important to me as it pertains to the US. I don't care what policies they want for themselves. Free healthcare etc. work away, but when it comes to things that I think will have knock on effects for the rest of the world that's what I find important in the leaders of the US.

And do you view the things that Trump has down on a global scale as an overall positive?

Whilst for example going after China isn't wrong in the slightest , his ham-fisted and poorly thought out approach has done more harm than good.

His "tarriffs" hurt US businesses and consumers far more than China (if they had any real impact on them at all), but Trump got to tell everyone that he was bringing the hurt to China.

He achieved absolutely nothing in NK , they still have Missiles , KJU got his PR piece for back home and the world got nothing , but Trump got his picture in the DMZ

His spats with Nato etc. whilst in the short term might have gotten a few countries to spend a little more the long term damage he's done to the relationships between the US and those countries cannot be understated.

Basically - Everything he did was transactional and "in the moment" . His utter lack of thought for the bigger picture or what might be the impact 5 years down the road is clear in everything that he does.

superflyninja

Trump may not be perfect but woah Nelly what the democrats are doing lately with the assistance of the media is nuts. The blatant censorship is astounding. There could be video of Joe Biden murdering puppies and using the corpses to beat children with and the mainstream media over there wouldn't report on it. Anybody but Trump indeed...
My main concern is Biden winning and the democrats getting their Marxist utopia. Would make a nice soft target for China

Overheal

superflyninja wrote: »

The blatant censorship is astounding. There could be video of Joe Biden murdering puppies and using the corpses to beat children with and the mainstream media over there wouldn't report on it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/12/national-enquirer-trump-payments-david-pecker-catch-and-kill

Blatant censorship you say

eagle eye

nthclare wrote:

By the way I'll take it back if I've insulted you, that was a bit immature and lacking respect for you. you're entitled to think what you like about my observation. No point in me being personal with you ...

That's fine.

As regards Trump, he is the most hated man I can ever remember. He's done lots of bar things too and always denies everything. He's a little at too.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do now. I'm going to fact check some of the comments from last night.

I won't use any site because they are all biased one way or the other, I'll do it on my own.

My only argument was about Trump being more in touch with the American people which is not the case and nobody watching that debate last night could have come to that conclusion.

stefanovich

eagle eye wrote: »

That's fine.

As regards Trump, he is the most hated man I can ever remember. He's done lots of bar things too and always denies everything. He's a little at too.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do now. I'm going to fact check some of the comments from last night.

I won't use any site because they are all biased one way or the other, I'll do it on my own.

My only argument was about Trump being more in touch with the American people which is not the case and nobody watching that debate last night could have come to that conclusion.

Trump is disliked by the left purely because he resists their extreme left wing ideology. That's it.

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

Trump is disliked by the left purely because he resists their extreme left wing ideology. That's it.

And on the flip side

Biden is disliked by the right purely because he resists their extreme right wing ideology. That's it.

Kermit.de.frog

stefanovich wrote: »

Trump is disliked by the left purely because he resists their extreme left wing ideology. That's it.

Trump is also disliked because he's a clown unfit for the job which is why he is losing the election.

nthclare

eagle eye wrote: »

That's fine.

As regards Trump, he is the most hated man I can ever remember. He's done lots of bar things too and always denies everything. He's a little at too.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do now. I'm going to fact check some of the comments from last night.

I won't use any site because they are all biased one way or the other, I'll do it on my own.

My only argument was about Trump being more in touch with the American people which is not the case and nobody watching that debate last night could have come to that conclusion.

Let me know how you get on and maybe I should have said Trump can emulate the persona that appeals to the working classes and people who are a true republicans and very patriotic

Tell me how

eagle eye wrote: »

That's fine.

As regards Trump, he is the most hated man I can ever remember. He's done lots of bar things too and always denies everything. He's a little at too.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do now. I'm going to fact check some of the comments from last night.

I won't use any site because they are all biased one way or the other, I'll do it on my own.

My only argument was about Trump being more in touch with the American people which is not the case and nobody watching that debate last night could have come to that conclusion.

That's incredible commitment. To launch a self funded, off-line investigation covering a number of topics which took place across several years, if not decades and in many different countries in order to take part in an online debate is off the scale commitment. Kudos.

Overheal

Let me know if you're setting up a Patreon for this endeavor

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

stefanovich wrote: »

Maybe Trump is disliked by the left purely because he resists their extreme left wing ideology. That's it.

FYP

It's actually becaused he's a bigot, sexist, lacks compassion, fills the swamp he threated to clean even more, lies abotu his taxes/incomes and has no problem endorsing violence. A lot of people dislike him for this reason including on the moderate left and moderate right.

The only people who seem to like him are the ones who think every left of moderate right on the politrical spectrum is an extremist of some sort.

Chris_Heilong

Just watched the debate, I think Trump was advised not to go in like a bull like he did last time and stayed more reserved, Biden did not have a lot to say only that Trump is bad, and talked about Covid a lot. I would say a lot of people who agree with Trump's policy's but thought he was too brash before will now be suede to vote for him as he came off more like a real person. The moderator actually seemed fair for once.

Overheal

See like, I vehemently opposed Bush's presidency, but those were differences of ideology. He was, at worst, a comically inept fool who was Manchurian Candidate for others. Trump, on the other hand, it's very hard to play family feud during a round of "Things people say the President is" and have it safe to air on television.

Overheal

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Just watched the debate, I think Trump was advised not to go in like a bull like he did last time and stayed more reserved, Biden did not have a lot to say only that Trump is bad, and talked about Covid a lot. I would say a lot of people who agree with Trump's policy's but thought he was too brash before will now be suede to vote for him as he came off more like a real person. The moderator actually seemed fair for once.

If people are fooled by Trump pretending to be a normal human being for 90 minutes they deserve what they get, they and Susan Collins can all have the same pity party.

eagle eye

stefanovich wrote: »

Trump is disliked by the left purely because he resists their extreme left wing ideology. That's it.

He's despised by right wingers, centrists, people with no interest in politics too. And I'm talking about millions of Americans and many more worldwide.

eagle eye

So I found an unbiased site weirdly. Checked up on a good few of these so happy to post it.

Trump accused Biden of receiving “$3.5 million from Russia.” There’s no evidence of that.
Biden said there’s “no evidence” that raising the minimum wage causes business bankruptcies. There is, a little.
Trump erred when he said it’s “proven” that a minimum-wage boost would lead to many firings. There’s a chance that the effect could be “about zero,” according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
Trump falsely said “I don’t take” money from Wall Street. He and groups supporting him got about $13.8 million from Wall Street.
Biden claimed Social Security’s chief actuary said if Trump “continues his plan to withhold the tax on Social Security” the program “will be bankrupt by 2023.” Trump hasn’t proposed ending the tax without providing alternative funding, the scenario the actuary assessed.
The president falsely claimed that his bank account in China was “closed in 2015.” Trump’s own attorney said it remains open.
Trump claimed that the $750 the New York Times reported he paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017 was a “filing fee.” There is no such fee.
Trump repeated his claim that “we’re rounding the turn” on the pandemic. Cases actually are increasing in many parts of the country.
Though Biden claimed Trump’s travel restrictions on China were imposed “late, after 40 countries had already done that,” most of those countries did it around the same time Trump did.
Biden misleadingly claimed that “38,000 prisoners were released from federal prison” during the Obama administration. The total number went down by about 12,000.
Trump misleadingly suggested the Obama administration was to blame for his administration’s policy that caused the separation of immigrant families.
Trump falsely claimed that “less than 1%” of those caught crossing the border and released pending immigration hearings appear in court. The rate is about 50%, according to his own Justice Department.
The president falsely claimed murderers and rapists are released under a so-called “catch and release” policy. In fact, immigration laws require such criminals be detained.
Biden claimed the U.S. trade deficit with China went “up, not down” under Trump. In fact it was lower in 2019 than it was in Biden’s last year as vice president.
Trump said African American income grew “nine times” more under his administration than under his predecessor. But that relies on figures Census says suffer from a pandemic-induced survey bias.
The president quoted Anthony Fauci as saying the coronavirus was “not going to be a problem.” Fauci didn’t say that.
Trump claimed that Biden wants to raise “everybody’s” taxes. Analysts say 80% would get a cut.
Biden misquoted Sen. Mitch McConnell as saying, “Let them go bankrupt,” about cities and states that have lost revenue as a result of the pandemic. McConnell said bankruptcy should be a legal option for states with unrelated money woes.
Trump again falsely claimed Biden would get rid of private health insurance. Biden opposed Medicare for All.
Trump wrongly attributed the term “super-predator” to Biden. It was Hillary Clinton — not Biden — who applied the term to some “gangs of kids.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/factchecking-the-final-2020-presidential-debate/?platform=hootsuite

Ardillaun

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Whilst I don't necessarily agree that Biden is "pretending to care" , the simple fact that Trump , even knowing that it might look better still can't manage to connect with people on a human level beyond the visceral "They are enemies" tropes is extremely telling of his true nature.

He's not a sociopath or anything , but his world view is centred entirely around himself.

How does it make him feel , How does it make him look , How does it benefit him?

If the answer to any of the above is in the negative , he's just not interested in even pretending to give a damn.

Actually, I think Biden’s empathy is genuine but I was talking about the performance of empathy as a public virtue in a republic where leaders are trusted servants of the people. By contrast, I do believe Trump is a sociopath and unfortunately that is part of his appeal. A substantial segment of the US voting public want an authoritarian leader who openly views empathy and respect as weakness.

Quin_Dub

eagle eye wrote: »

So I found an unbiased site weirdly. Checked up on a good few of these so happy to post it.


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/factchecking-the-final-2020-presidential-debate/?platform=hootsuite

Good work, well done.

So on the basis of that list , Trump Lied/Misspoke/Exaggerated about 3 times more than Biden (15 to 5 in the list)

eagle eye

Ardillaun wrote: »

I do believe he is a sociopath and unfortunately that is part of his appeal. A substantial segment of the US voting public want an authoritarian leader who views empathy and respect as weakness.

I think in the beginning a big part of his appeal was the lack of political correctness which many people were fed up with.

That only lasts until he goes over the line too many times and then people say no, this is wrong and he's went over that line many, many times.

eagle eye

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Good work, well done.

So on the basis of that list , Trump Lied/Misspoke/Exaggerated about 3 times more than Biden (15 to 5 in the list)

I don't think that would surprise anybody.

Chris_Heilong

Overheal wrote: »

If people are fooled by Trump pretending to be a normal human being for 90 minutes they deserve what they get, they and Susan Collins can all have the same pity party.

Most Politian's are just actors, you can say it is fooling if you want but maybe Trump is just learning the game.

Overheal wrote: »

See like, I vehemently opposed Bush's presidency, but those were differences of ideology. He was, at worst, a comically inept fool who was Manchurian Candidate for others.

I agree with everything you say about Bush above also. Bush was too much about War for my liking and came out with the 'you are either with us or your against us' speech which made me cringe.

Quin_Dub

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Most Politian's are just actors, you can say it is fooling if you want but maybe Trump is just learning the game.



I agree with everything you say about Bush above also. Bush was too much about War for my liking and came out with the 'you are either with us or your against us' speech which made me cringe.

He's a fairly slow learner if that is the case.

As I said previously, perhaps the most startling thing about the last 4 years is the complete lack of growth or development from Trump.

He hasn't learned a thing about how to do the job , how to influence others , change minds , nothing.

He even tried to claim again last night in the debate - "I'm not a politician".

Well Donald, after almost 4 years in office , maybe you should be by now - It might make you better at the job.

francois

stefanovich wrote: »

Trump is disliked by the left purely because he resists their extreme left wing ideology. That's it.

Those famous commies of the Lincon Project...

Overheal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He's a fairly slow learner if that is the case.

As I said previously, perhaps the most startling thing about the last 4 years is the complete lack of growth or development from Trump.

He hasn't learned a thing about how to do the job , how to influence others , change minds , nothing.

He even tried to claim again last night in the debate - "I'm not a politician".

Well Donald, after almost 4 years in office , maybe you should be by now - It might make you better at the job.

Ah let up, it's Infrastructure Week.

MoonUnit75

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You're not inviting discussing, you're making **** up and using possible scenarios as proof. It's called confirmation bias.

You haven't contributed any counter arguments that I can remember but I admire your sense of your own omnipotence.

If people were not coming up with nonsensical arguments that makes the laptop story implausible I wouldn't need to offer plausible scenarios.