Trump vs Biden 2020, Ultimate battle for the fate of our universe (pt 3)Read OP 01/11

Quantum Erasure

alchemist33 wrote: »

Anybody know what time results will start filtering in on election night?

About 11 pm our time, Indiana and Kentucky, going by this...,

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/06/time-states-election-results-us

MadYaker

patnor1011 wrote: »

Every station is openly biased. Their leaning depends on where owner tends to lean and where they get money from and where they donate some of them back.

Exactly, so we know Fox are biased towards the right and they are saying it was a draw, what does that tell you?

paw patrol

Deleted User wrote: »

It was definitely the smartest person on either ticket vs. the calmest person on either ticket.

She isn't that great , Gabbard destroyed her . I don't know why you think she is smart is any way.

Tell me how wrote: »

Not even close to being any sort of a demolition job. Pence was on defence for most of it (largely his Presidents fault).

Pence wiped the floor with her

gmisk

darced wrote: »

Spence has way more about him than I thought, that was a demolition job.

The fact you don't know his name would suggest his performance wasn't that memorable...

Leroy42

Given where the polls are at, I would hazard a guess that the aim going into the debate was to avoid coming across badly for Harris. She is already dealing with the dual negative (in many voters eyes) of being a woman and a minority. This is heightened by the age of Biden and the not unreasonable consideration that she may end up as POTUS.

So don't come off as condescending, don't belittle Pence, don't say anything that may alienate voters. So basically do and say nothing that will cause harm.

That places quite a restriction on someone. There is a big difference going into a meeting to try to avoid saying anything that might cause an issue than going into a meeting looking to create an issue.

Pence had the luxury of being able to take any shot he wanted. He had almost nothing to lose.

Pence should have nailed Harris is they wanted to move the dial (given that anything in this debate wil have very limited impact on the race anyway). Whilst I think Harris was far from impressive, and I wouldn't be voting for her based on that performance, neither did I think Pence did anything to show why they should be given another four years, to set out vision for another four years, or how anything was going to different over the next 4 years.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

She isn't that great , Gabbard destroyed her . I don't know why you think she is smart is any way.

Indeed, hence my comment about her not being a great debater.

You can be intelligent and also not be a great debater.

Simple stuff, really.

Cody montana

Seems a fly was the highlight.

Not a good look.

Timberrrrrrrr

Just watched the debate, very mediocre imo, Neither landed any heavy blows and I would call it a draw.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cody montana wrote: »

Seems a fly was the highlight.

Not a good look.

Someone said that's the only black friend pence has :pac:

Cody montana

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Someone said that's the only black friend pence has :pac:

Could be a reincarnation of RBG?

Pence came off better than Trump.
But when you interrupt and rant like a maniac, that’s not difficult.

paw patrol

Leroy42 wrote: »

Pence had the luxury of being able to take any shot he wanted. He had almost nothing to lose.
.

I don't know if you are serious.

Given the identity politics at play in the media he had to be mindful of her being a woman and whatever minority she chooses to be, Pence probably had to be more mindful of that than anything Harris had to contend with.

Gods Gift

VOTE THE FLY 2020.

Richard Hillman

I didn't see the debate but I have been impressed by Mike Pence this year. He has an air of authority. He probably doesn't have the charisma to go for a presidential gig himself one day but I think he would do a solid job.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Just watched the debate, very mediocre imo, Neither landed any heavy blows and I would call it a draw.

Like last week, it's not so much that Harris won it but that Pence lost it. Pretty much a draw, which with current polls is a win for Biden/Harris.

I don't think either side gained any undecideds but neither lost any either.

Leroy42

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't know if you are serious.

Given the identity politics at play in the media he had to be mindful of her being a woman and whatever minority she chooses to be, Pence probably had to be more mindful of that than anything Harris had to contend with.

So you think the white man had a harder time? Really? Of course it is perfectly right that he be respectful. That didn't stop him for continually interupping her. He did at least not throw a strop like Trump does when called out, he accepted it and let her talk. But that should be the norm.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I didn't see the debate but I have been impressed by Mike Pence this year. He has an air of authority. He probably doesn't have the charisma to go for a presidential gig himself one day but I think he would do a solid job.

You mean how brilliantly he handled the COVID taskforce? 200k+ dead btw, and counting. He has, it seems, simply walked away from that and forgotten about it.

Thomas..

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Pence looks like a guy who just got up out of a coffin.

Don't they all

Igotadose

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Pence looks like a guy who just got up out of a coffin.

Could that explain the fly?

eagle eye

Leroy42 wrote:

Given where the polls are at, I would hazard a guess that the aim going into the debate was to avoid coming across badly for Harris. She is already dealing with the dual negative (in many voters eyes) of being a woman and a minority. This is heightened by the age of Biden and the not unreasonable consideration that she may end up as POTUS.

So don't come off as condescending, don't belittle Pence, don't say anything that may alienate voters. So basically do and say nothing that will cause harm.

That places quite a restriction on someone. There is a big difference going into a meeting to try to avoid saying anything that might cause an issue than going into a meeting looking to create an issue.

Pence had the luxury of being able to take any shot he wanted. He had almost nothing to lose.

Pence should have nailed Harris is they wanted to move the dial (given that anything in this debate wil have very limited impact on the race anyway). Whilst I think Harris was far from impressive, and I wouldn't be voting for her based on that performance, neither did I think Pence did anything to show why they should be given another four years, to set out vision for another four years, or how anything was going to different over the next 4 years.

I don't agree with your suggestion of the dual negative but I think you nailed it pretty much with the rest of your post.
Just like Biden last week a draw is a win for the Biden camp.
I really don't think it's a very important debate but just not upsetting the apple cart has to be the target in every debate for the democrats. They are going to the White House if they keep things passive.

Leroy42

The one key point I took out of it, mainly because they both avoiding direct answers, was that quite clearly the Biden side used Harris as a test run on how to handle Trump. A number of times she said "I'm speaking" when Pence interrupted her and my guess is that is the way they are going to try to deal with Trump.

Pence, for all the policies that I disagree with him on, is polite, respectful and professional and so was able to easily handle that in a calm manner. Trump doesn't have any of those qualities.

So the plan would appear to be that Biden using the same tactic and either he gets to talk and be seen to put manners on Trump, or more likely Trump get more enraged and Biden has to talk even less and gets to be seen as at least trying. Talking less about the issues is clearly a plus for Biden, given that at this point he needs to avoid negatives.

timsey tiger

simongurnick wrote: »

Polls state different, Donnie

Fair enough the national average polls look good for Biden vs 2106, swing state polls vs 2016 not so much. Just saying!

paw patrol

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you think the white man had a harder time? Really? Of course it is perfectly right that he be respectful. That didn't stop him for continually interupping her. He did at least not throw a strop like Trump does when called out, he accepted it and let her talk. But that should be the norm.

in the context of your original point.

yes. yes he did.

km991148

Leroy42 wrote: »

The one key point I took out of it, mainly because they both avoiding direct answers, was that quite clearly the Biden side used Harris as a test run on how to handle Trump. A number of times she said "I'm speaking" when Pence interrupted her and my guess is that is the way they are going to try to deal with Trump.

Pence, for all the policies that I disagree with him on, is polite, respectful and professional and so was able to easily handle that in a calm manner. Trump doesn't have any of those qualities.

That's the problem with using that approach (on Trump) - it doesn't work on Trump. He doesn't have basic manners or even care for them (He sometimes pretends to be polite if it will cast him a good light OR he will watch out for other people being potentially rude towards him and use that as a line of attack) - but he isn't polite at all and will there for just shout louder if you try to break his flow
in this way ('I'm speaking' etc).

CtevenSrowder

Leroy42 wrote: »

Given where the polls are at, I would hazard a guess that the aim going into the debate was to avoid coming across badly for Harris. She is already dealing with the dual negative (in many voters eyes) of being a woman and a minority. This is heightened by the age of Biden and the not unreasonable consideration that she may end up as POTUS.

So don't come off as condescending, don't belittle Pence, don't say anything that may alienate voters. So basically do and say nothing that will cause harm.

That places quite a restriction on someone. There is a big difference going into a meeting to try to avoid saying anything that might cause an issue than going into a meeting looking to create an issue.

Pence had the luxury of being able to take any shot he wanted. He had almost nothing to lose.

Pence should have nailed Harris is they wanted to move the dial (given that anything in this debate wil have very limited impact on the race anyway). Whilst I think Harris was far from impressive, and I wouldn't be voting for her based on that performance, neither did I think Pence did anything to show why they should be given another four years, to set out vision for another four years, or how anything was going to different over the next 4 years.

What are you basing your 'dual negative' comment on?

Leroy42

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What are you basing your 'dual negative' comment on?

First off, I said in some voters eyes, so I am not saying that it is everyone.

But...there is clearly an issue for women on the POTUS position in the US. HC suffered from it, Harris has suffered from it. The US just doesn't seem to think that a woman is POTUS material.

The second is the underlying racism in the US. Being a minority brings certain disadvantages. Not impossible to overcome, as Obama did, but that discrimination followed Obama throughout his 8 years, allowing things like 'birther' to become a thing.

Justin Credible Darts

amazing how the same people who slate fox as pro right , pro trump and disregard anything fox says, will amazingly take as the truth, if its something the democrats agree with..

who saw that coming

Leroy42

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

amazing how the same people who slate fox as pro right , pro trump and disregard anything fox says, will amazingly take as the truth, if its something the democrats agree with..

who saw that coming

Again, people seem to be confused. Nobody claimed it was the truth. The truth is solely that they said it.

The point being made was that when a right-wing, pro-Trump (and thus Pro-Pence) outlet is calling it essentially a draw, then it calls into question those that are calling it a walkover for Pence.

CtevenSrowder

Leroy42 wrote: »

First off, I said in some voters eyes, so I am not saying that it is everyone.

But...there is clearly an issue for women on the POTUS position in the US. HC suffered from it, Harris has suffered from it. The US just doesn't seem to think that a woman is POTUS material.

The second is the underlying racism in the US. Being a minority brings certain disadvantages. Not impossible to overcome, as Obama did, but that discrimination followed Obama throughout his 8 years, allowing things like 'birther' to become a thing.

How do you know you know some voters won't vote for a women? Are they so numerous as to really make much of an impact?

The whole birther thing was just the right's version of trying to completely discredit the President. We've had 4 years of it from the left with Trump. If Biden wins we'll have another 4 years of it from the right again. Such is the cesspit of American politics.

Justin Credible Darts

Leroy42 wrote: »

Again, people seem to be confused. Nobody claimed it was the truth. The truth is solely that they said it.

The point being made was that when a right-wing, pro-Trump (and thus Pro-Pence) outlet is calling it essentially a draw, then it calls into question those that are calling it a walkover for Pence.

again, because they said it was a draw....you believed them.


The point you believed what the wrote when it suited you.


I dont want trump in power, but Pence came across far better.
both completely ignored the questions last night, but harris came off worse.


I would have biden over Trump
but as bad as pence is, I sooner him over harris who was made to look a liar, and the part where pence spoke about her wanting to stop fracking in the past and now changed her mind, she failed to properly deflect from that

Hoop66

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

How do you know you know some voters won't vote for a women? Are they so numerous as to really make much of an impact?

The whole birther thing was just the right's version of trying to completely discredit the President. We've had 4 years of it from the left with Trump. If Biden wins we'll have another 4 years of it from the right again. Such is the cesspit of American politics.

To compare one - a baseless, racist conspiracy theory - with the other - mountains of evidence of wrongdoing - is a false equivalency.

ancapailldorcha

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

amazing how the same people who slate fox as pro right , pro trump and disregard anything fox says, will amazingly take as the truth, if its something the democrats agree with..

who saw that coming

I've seen members of the "fake news/MSM" brigade cite the Washington Post and CNN here when it suits them. Why are you only castigating one side here?