Trump vs Biden 2020, Ultimate battle for the fate of our universe (pt 3)Read OP 01/11

stefanovich

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Surely you mean Trump? Or has Biden done this kind of thing before?

There is video footage of him being touchy feely with numerous prepubescent children.

Phoebas

Gruffalux wrote: »

He didn't have to ''scour the globe'' as you so hyperbolically phrase it...

He was 'though. He was out in Ukraine looking for dirt. He was meeting with Andrii Derkach, a Russian agent who was attempting to 'employ manipulation and deceit to attempt to influence elections in the United States' (according to the Treasury department).

That's what Rudy was up to, so it's no wonder that anything Rudy is attached to would be viewed with the deepest of suspicion.

As someone else pointed out; if Rudy can be manipulated like this by Sacha Baron Cohen, can you imagine how he could be manipulated by a seasoned Russian agent?

Phoebas

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Ah I see, the punishment for investigating the Bidens is an active attempt to ruin your life and reputation.

What the hell are you on about? - Borat's bit wasn't a punishment. It was nothing to do with the Biden's.

Your paranoia level is up to 11.

Gruffalux

Phoebas wrote: »

As someone else pointed out; if Rudy can be manipulated like this by Sacha Baron Cohen, can you imagine how he could be manipulated by a seasoned Russian agent?

You are bowling with a gammy bat there, Phoebas - John Ratcliffe the Director of National Intelligence has publicly said that the Biden laptop is NOT Russian disinformation and more recently senior figures in the FBI have said they have nothing further to add to Ratcliffe's assessment.

Jill C. Tyson, FBI assistant director for congressional affairs, wrote in response to questions from Homeland Security Committee Chairman Ron Johnson that "we have nothing to add at this time to the October 19th public statement by the Director of National Intelligence about the available actionable intelligence

Tippex

thecretinhop wrote: »

wat an absolute joke nothing to see?, so hunter is having inappropriate relations with a 14 year old and this is equivalent people ye have list your minds

What now?

extra gravy

Gruffalux wrote: »

You are bowling with a gammy bat there, Phoebas - John Ratcliffe the Director of National Intelligence has publicly said that the Biden laptop is NOT Russian disinformation and more recently senior figures in the FBI have said they have nothing further to add to Ratcliffe's assessment.

Ratcliffe is Trump's stooge, anything he says should be taken with a bucket of salt.

mcmoustache

Tippex wrote: »

What now?

It's a QAnon thing.


QAnon is a bonkers conspiracy doing the rounds on the social media feeds of dribbling imbeciles. It's running rampant among Trump supporters for some reason.

Quin_Dub

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is bad, Bad, BAD for Trump and the republicans...record turnout looks highly likely

Whilst I do think that there is going to be a very high level of turnout this year, I don't think that too much can be read into the early voting so far.

It's almost certain that this year will see more people vote early/ by mail than in person for the first time ever.

We are probably going to see a huge reduction in "on the day" course this year.

Net Net there will be more votes cast than 2016 but not the massive amount that might be suggested by the totals so far

extra gravy

Tippex wrote: »

What now?

I wouldn't bother, I'm still waiting for him to post the emails which he claims support his accusations.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gruffalux wrote: »

He didn't have to ''scour the globe'' as you so hyperbolically phrase it...Robert J Costello, former Deputy Chief of the Criminal Division for the US Attorney’s Office in the Southern District of New York, got a letter from John Paul Mac Isaac, a laptop repair guy in Wilmington, Delaware, and Costello took a trip down to Wilmington and examined the contents of a copy of a hard drive Mac Isaac had made of Hunter Biden's laptop, which Mac Isaac had already turned over to the FBI, so concerning was the material he found on it. These contents have been verified by numerous other people and not denied by the FBI or Biden's political team. Costello brought the laptop right to Giuliani - he did not even have to put shoe leather to one single road much less scour the globe.. Giuliani's stupid oul lad flirtations with an adult captured on candid camera is completely irrelevant to the case.
At least, stop the denial about the material already in the public domain. Trump is a corrupt asshole. Biden is also a corrupt asshole. Hunter Biden appears to be an extremely unsavoury human being. Them's the facts.

Sorry but “not denied” means nothing. Anything which is presented without evidence (and we have not seen anything compelling) may be dismissed without evidence. Biden is absolutely right to not give it the time of day. To me, that comes across as somebody with little to fear.

And who cares if Hunter Biden is unsavoury? He’s not the candidate. And his unsavouriness isn’t necessarily his father’s fault. I have an uncle who is a con man and an all-round crappy excuse for a human being. Trust me when I say this has nothing to do with my grandparents. You say whatever Giuliani has been accused of (which I also don’t care about personally) is irrelevant. So is Hunter Biden’s life.

Gruffalux

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Sorry but “not denied” means nothing. Anything which is presented without evidence (and we have not seen anything compelling) may be dismissed without evidence. Biden is absolutely right to not give it the time of day. To me, that comes across as somebody with little to fear.

And who cares if Hunter Biden is unsavoury? He’s not the candidate. And his unsavouriness isn’t necessarily his father’s fault. I have an uncle who is a con man and an all-round crappy excuse for a human being. Trust me when I say this has nothing to do with my grandparents. You say whatever Giuliani has been accused of (which I also don’t care about personally) is irrelevant. So is Hunter Biden’s life.

It is not if Hunter funneled money from Ukrainian or Chinese or any other investors directly to Joe Biden in exchange for access to influence of the highest offices in the US. Which I think is very credible.
Time will tell.

Phoebas

Gruffalux wrote: »

You are bowling with a gammy bat there, Phoebas - John Ratcliffe the Director of National Intelligence has publicly said that the Biden laptop is NOT Russian disinformation and more recently senior figures in the FBI have said they have nothing further to add to Ratcliffe's assessment.

The FBI said they had nothing to add to their previous statement but they don't comment on ongoing investigations (the ongoing investigation into a possible Russian link).
Ratcliffe said he wasn't involved in the FBI investigation, so he was speaking on the basis of the information (or lack thereof) available to him (but will no doubt become available to him when the FBI investigation is concluded, at which point we will know if there is actionable intelligence).
So, the question about the laptop is an open one.

What isn't in question is that Giuliani was working with a Russian agent who was trying to 'employ manipulation and deceit to attempt to influence elections in the United States'.
Regardless of the particulars of the laptop story, this casts Giuliani in a very poor light, hench the schadenfreude when he himself becomes the victim of some underhand tactics.

Call Me Jimmy

DrumSteve wrote: »

Yeah it's not like Don hasn't got a history of retaliation against people investigating him or whistleblowing on him.

Is it.

Even if we go off on that tangent and I grant you Donald Trump attempted to set someone up as a child predator for looking into his affairs - the root of your point is a moral equivalence and you are ultimately defending the behaviour I was saying shouldn't happen.

Maybe you think I want Trump not to be scrutinised for bad deeds but there's no evidence of that. Except that every second post has name-calling 'teenagers' 'trumptards' 'cultists' etc. so if you give everyone on the other side of an argument that kind of credit no wonder there's no nuance to the positions. Does arguing against aspects of the narrative make someone a zealot?

If Trump did collude with russia, why would I not want that to be shown? There is no shortage of people who want him to be taken down, there's been no shortage of fake investigations from individuals, government, opposition research, foreign intelligence. If any of it is criminal then I look forward to him being prosecuted fairly. One single investigation against the Biden's and people are taking pleasure in the active attempt to end the person involved without denying the reality of his evidence.

Call Me Jimmy

Phoebas wrote: »

What the hell are you on about? - Borat's bit wasn't a punishment. It was nothing to do with the Biden's.

Your paranoia level is up to 11.

It was a simple moral point, you said you took pleasure in it. So it's not punishment, just a conveniently timed attack. And an attempt to call me crazy. Boring.

Gruffalux

Phoebas wrote: »

The FBI said they had nothing to add to their previous statement that they don't comment on ongoing investigations (the ongoing investigation into a possible Russian link).
Ratcliffe said he wasn't involved in the FBI investigation, so he was speaking on the basis of the information (or lack thereof) available to him (but will no doubt become available to him when the FBI investigation is concluded).
So, the question about the laptop is an open one.

What isn't in question is that Giuliani was working with a Russian agent who was trying to 'employ manipulation and deceit to attempt to influence elections in the United States'.
Regardless of the particulars of the laptop story, this casts Giuliani in a very poor light, hench the schadenfreude when he himself becomes the victim of some underhand tactics.

You can wallow in your schadenfreude Phoebas, I could not give two sh1ts about Giuliani, so it does not bother me what happens to him.
And ''regardless of the particulars of the laptop story '' is a minimising phrase which ignores a very big story that should be properly laid out for consideration by a democracy seeking to elect its president.
Let it all come out in public. Now, today. Reveal what is on this laptop. Let the FBI come out and tell the truth. If Giuliani et al are lying, so be it, I am completely fine with that; if Biden et al have something to hide, so be it, I am also fine with that. What is happening now is very dangerous obfuscation on all sides of a situation that is extremely relevant to the most powerful office in the US if not the world. From what little I have seen I have questions for Biden.

Tell me how

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not if Hunter funneled money from Ukrainian or Chinese or any other investors directly to Joe Biden in exchange for access to influence of the highest offices in the US. Which I think is very credible.
Time will tell.

Trump fans have all of a sudden come in to possession with a new found morality.

A literal book has been written about Trump using his position for his and his own families personal gain.



Have you any comment on this

Ivanka’s Trademark Requests Were Fast-Tracked In China After Trump Was Elected

Tell me how

Gruffalux wrote: »

You can wallow in your schadenfreude Phoebas, I could not give two sh1ts about Giuliani, so it does not bother me what happens to him.
And ''regardless of the particulars of the laptop story '' is a minimising phrase which ignores a very big story that should be properly laid out for consideration by a democracy seeking to elect its president.
Let it all come out in public. Now, today. Reveal what is on this laptop. Let the FBI come out and tell the truth. If Giuliani et al are lying, so be it, I am completely fine with that; if Biden et al have something to hide, so be it, I am also fine with that. What is happening now is very dangerous obfuscation on all sides of a situation that is extremely relevant to the most powerful office in the US if not the world. From what little I have seen I have questions for Biden.

After 4 years of claiming (and proving) of the engagement with Trump team members and Russians leading to several indictments, trials, convictions and custodial sentences, this is flat out nauseating.

Gruffalux

Tell me how wrote: »

Trump fans have all of a sudden come in to possession with a new found morality.

A literal book has been written about Trump using his position for his and his own families personal gain.



Have you any comment on this

I am not a Trump fan. Would vote independent if in the US even though it would be a lost vote. I just cannot stand the sanctimonious spin that Biden is the good guy among the candidates. The one attribute Trump has that is better than Biden is he does not pretend to be the good guy.

Gruffalux

Tell me how wrote: »

After 4 years of claiming (and proving) of the engagement with Trump team members and Russians leading to several indictments, trials, convictions and custodial sentences, this is flat out nauseating.

Aw. You poor thing. Milk of Magnesia is supposed to be good for nausea, or a nice cup of camomile tea.

Graham

Gruffalux wrote: »

I just cannot stand the sanctimonious spin that Biden is the good guy among the candidates.

I think most of the 'spin' is Trump is the worst guy.

Phoebas

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

It was a simple moral point, you said you took pleasure in it. So it's not punishment, just a conveniently timed attack. And an attempt to call me crazy. Boring.

If you weren't making an off the wall statement that you retract an hour later, then people might not think you paranoid, and then you wouldn't then turn that into 'an attempt to call me crazy' (which kinda validates the paranoia bit).

Anyway, Rudy gets pranked by a comedian. That's all there is to it; not an attempt to 'ruin his life'.

Quin_Dub

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not if Hunter funneled money from Ukrainian or Chinese or any other investors directly to Joe Biden in exchange for access to influence of the highest offices in the US. Which I think is very credible.
Time will tell.

I've asked this question before.

Where's the money?, What's he planning to do with it?

if we accept that he has risked everything to get a bit of cash or maybe even a lot of cash, where is it?

Is he saving it for his retirement? Going to give it to his kids?

He's not living a lifestyle beyond his reported means.
His taxes don't show any major debts.

So what's the money for?


With Trump for example, you can build a narrative around him being in debt etc. - not saying it's true but there's a viable narrative that could be put forward.

The narrative just isn't there for Biden.

I absolutely accept that Hunter Biden had leveraged his name to get access and Jobs that he really doesn't deserve on merit, but I just don't see an active role played by Joe Biden.

Phoebas

Gruffalux wrote: »

Let it all come out in public. Now, today. Reveal what is on this laptop. Let the FBI come out and tell the truth.

You want the truth, but you want it 'today'.
Shouldn't the investigation to reveal the truth come first?

Tell me how

Gruffalux wrote: »

I am not a Trump fan. Would vote independent if in the US even though it would be a lost vote. I just cannot stand the sanctimonious spin that Biden is the good guy among the candidates. The one attribute Trump has that is better than Biden is he does not pretend to be the good guy.

Truth hurts kiddo.

Gruffalux

Phoebas wrote: »

You want the truth, but you want it 'today'.
Shouldn't the investigation to reveal the truth come first?

Sure there should be an investigation.
But before the next president of the US is elected verified emails from Hunter's laptop that have any relevance to international deals involving Joe Biden, the US and any transfers of money should be published. I too am waiting to see what exactly is there.

duploelabs

extra gravy wrote: »

Ratcliffe is Trump's stooge, anything he says should be taken with a bucket of salt.

Ratcliffe has more loyalty to trump than he does to his role, like Barr

Gruffalux

Tell me how wrote: »

Truth hurts kiddo.

Glad we agree It is sanctimonious spin that Biden is the good guy.

PropJoe10

Gruffalux wrote: »

Glad we agree It is sanctimonious spin that Biden is the good guy.

There's not many pristine politicians and Biden certainly isn't pristine. But he's not a threat to US democracy and common decency, which Trump is. That's the bottom line, for me.

Phoebas

Gruffalux wrote: »

Sure there should be an investigation.
But before the next president of the US is elected verified emails from Hunter's laptop that have any relevance to international deals involving Joe Biden, the US and any transfers of money should be published. I too am waiting to see what exactly is there.

I'm sure you don't want the FBI to be releasing evidence in an ongoing investigation before the investigation is concluded, especially if partial information could influence the election (imagine the FBI doing that!!).

Luckily, we can shortcut all of that, because doesn't Rudy have a clone of the disk drive, that he can easily make available to the media and all of the investigative resources they can bring to bear on it?

Tell me how

Gruffalux wrote: »

Glad we agree It is sanctimonious spin that Biden is the good guy.

Cool.
You take the moral high ground pleading righteousness and a holier than thou attitude. I don't care. This is a competition between Trump and Biden and within that context, there is no comparison as to the more honourably motivated.