Trump vs Biden 2020, Ultimate battle for the fate of our universe (pt 3)Read OP 01/11

dark crystal

thebestwords wrote: »

The thread was flooded with death wishes and ill will for pages until the moderators posted that message, selective memories.

Ad this thread has a poster sniggering at a picture of a man in the depths of a drug addiction and garnering thanks for it. That one hasn't been removed my mods, though.

Stop playing the moral outrage card, seriously.

thebestwords

Deleted User wrote: »

Those emails have genuine questions over the veracity of those emails so that's pretty relevant.

How many years did the "dossier" dominate the news cycle for, how many hundreds of millions of likes and clicks did the social media companies gain from it? How many thousands of hours did cable news networks promote it?

Has Biden come out and denied the accuracy of the emails? Why should this story suddenly have mountains of extra scrutiny to the point that it's impossible to tweet it? Trump's taxes weren't obtained legally down the ladder, why is it different?

salmocab

thebestwords wrote: »

The thread was flooded with death wishes and ill will for pages until the moderators posted that message, selective memories.

But the point being made was tarring the people here now with that brush and yet not knowing if any of them actually did it. There were a pile of people came in and posted who had barely posted here at that time. You get to recognise the usernames of regulars albeit plenty keep changing their names as they get banned but even then the style of posting tends to be familiar.
If your happy to blame every person that views them self as liberal Or a Biden then you will in turn have to own the views of every person who considers them self conservative or Trump supporter. That doesn’t seem right.

Igotadose

thebestwords wrote: »

Forget Hunter being a drug addict.

Really? You don't care about his addiction that he's struggled to kick? Then why did you post this:

thebestwords wrote: »

Corrupt crackie Hunter should have hidden his camera from the hookers while he was passed out. Rookie move


https://twitter.com/KenWebsterII/status/1316418583342321664

thebestwords

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? You don't care about his addiction that he's struggled to kick? Then why did you post this:

I got my own problems to worry about before caring about some multi millionaire. Like I already said, I posted that image for shock value in a midst of dozens of posts defending censorship.

dark crystal

https://twitter.com/Amy_Siskind/status/1316770256539586561

"Fox News owner predicts a landslide win for Biden"

Now even Murdoch is coming out against Trump, lol. As I've said before, like rats deserting a sinking ship...

hetuzozaho

thebestwords wrote: »

I got my own problems to worry about before caring about some multi millionaire.

But you do care about the twitter millionaires moderating their site in a way that might not help the millionaire Trump.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

briany wrote: »

"Ah, but the polls were wrong before!"

Well, yes, but it would be a hell of a trick for the polls to be wrong by the amount that pollsters are currently putting Biden ahead by,

Indeed it would... indeedy do... but it's only slight of hand. Not fleet of foot!

Sticky fingers, tired feet... Trick or treat?

Do you remember the recent UK election polls? Forecasting a tight race, right up until the end... then the Tories won in a bloodbath!

Shocking everyone... leading to some pollsters exiting the UK election scene. Including some US based pollsters.

These are no normal elections we are seeing in recent years. Trusting the polls is a dangerous game!

Chris_Heilong

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why introduce the word oppressed? A democracy is all about what the majority want. It is asking the population as a whole what they want and going in that direction.

What other way should you do it? By arbitrarily picking some measurements over another, in the US case state borders, to giving certain peoples votes more value that others?

America is too big to be a full democracy and each state is like a mini country with many of its own laws and governing boards, that is why the EC exists, without it California would be calling all the shots.

thebestwords

hetuzozaho wrote: »

But you do care about the twitter millionaires moderating their site in a way that might not help the millionaire Trump.

I care about censorship - I'm sure people in countries like China controlled by the CCP do too.

Overheal

WrenBoy wrote: »

Didn't accuse that poster in specific more a general "you guys" to the people that did do it. I am calling cowards all those who did wish death on him then either deleted or had their posts deleted and now act like it never happened.

I've no problem apologising to Billy, it was more a response to the notion that people who aren't rooting for Biden are lacking in morals.

You should apologize to everyone in this thread tbh, as it's impossible to say who you think you are smearing. "you guys."

And you want to go off for others on being cowards but you can't even stand behind naming particular people when you want to accuse them of something so heinous. Laughable

pjohnson

Its always amusing when people try to call America a democracy :pac:

Tell me how

Even the owner of the news paper that 'broke' the story about Biden's laptop doesn't like Trumps chances.

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1316726505339334656

Wouldn't expect to see this discussed on Fox mind.

This line has got to hurt.

The Australian mogul is disgusted by Trump’s handling of COVID-19, remarking that the president is his own worst enemy

eagle eye

ancapailldorcha wrote:

Do you think extorting money from children with cancer is a bad thing?

How is that an answer to the question you quoted?

hetuzozaho

thebestwords wrote: »

I care about censorship - I'm sure people in countries like China controlled by the CCP do too.

A note in which you could still click through to the article. That was my experience anyway. I could still view the article via twitter.

Is that even censorship? I don't claim to be an expert on this.

Overheal

thebestwords wrote: »

Forget Hunter being a drug addict. Since when is blatant influence peddling considered "family issues" ? You mentioned a "charity scam" in your previous post.

Joe Biden claimed he never met knew nor met those Burisma executives, yet the evidence in those emails directly contradicts that.

Emails with no metadata. Made up bunk until verified by third parties.

The Biden camp has responded of course, not the New York Post was interested in reaching them for comment before publication. They've poured through the minutes and itinerary for Biden at the times in question and there's simply no mention of these people.

The New York Post on Wednesday published an article based on emails purportedly obtained from a laptop that Hunter Biden, the son of former vice president Joe Biden, had supposedly left behind for repair in a Delaware shop in April 2019. Here’s a brief explainer to help readers evaluate its significance. We will continue to update this article as more information becomes available.

What’s new?
The key thrust of the article is that an April 17, 2015, email suggests Hunter Biden arranged for a top executive at a Ukrainian energy firm to meet with the then-vice president when he was in charge of U.S. policy toward Ukraine. “Dear Hunter, thank you for inviting me to DC and giving an opportunity to meet your father and spent [sic] some time together. It’s realty [sic] an honor and pleasure,” reads the email, supposedly written by Vadym Pozharskyi, an adviser to the board of Burisma.

Why would that be important?
Hunter Biden in 2014 became a board member of Burisma, which news reports at the time suggested was a conflict of interest, given his father’s position. The former vice president has said he did not discuss Burisma with his son. The email is not specific about the nature of the meeting and is written in a way that it could be talking about a possible future meeting. Nevertheless, Republicans have long sought to tie Joe Biden to his son’s business interests, even launching a Senate investigation, so any indication that the vice president helped his son could be politically damaging. The New York Post claimed it was a “smoking-gun email.”

How do we know the email is authentic?
We do not. The New York Post published PDF printouts of several emails allegedly taken from the laptop, but for the “smoking-gun” email, it shows only a photo made the day before the story was posted, according to Thomas Rid, the author of “Active Measures,” a book on disinformation. “There is no header information, no metadata.” The Washington Post has not been able to independently verify or authenticate these emails, as requests to make the laptop hard drive available for inspection have not been granted. The New York Post said it obtained the material from former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, a personal lawyer to President Trump.

There also is no indication that Hunter Biden replied to the email.

Moreover, another alleged email published by the New York Post contradicts the notion that Hunter Biden could influence his father. “What he will do and say is out of our hands,” Hunter Biden wrote in an email that the New York Post said was sent April 13, 2014.

What does the Biden campaign say?
Andrew Bates, a campaign spokesman for Joe Biden, said a review of Biden’s schedules from 2015 finds no record of any such meeting. Officials who worked for Biden at the time told The Fact Checker that no such meeting took place.

“I was with the vice president in all of his meetings on Ukraine,” said Michael Carpenter, Biden’s foreign policy adviser in 2015. “He never met with this guy. In fact, I had never heard of this guy until the New York Post story broke.”

The New York Post article also cites an email from Pozharskyi to Hunter Biden saying he was “going to share this information with the US embassy here in Kyiv, as well as the office of Mr Amos Hochstein in the States.”

“I know for a fact he never contacted me or my office,” said Hochstein, who at the time worked closely with Biden as special envoy and coordinator for international energy affairs. “I provided every record to the Senate investigation, and no mention of this guy was ever made, no emails, no correspondence. I know almost every player in the energy sector in Ukraine. I never met this guy.”

Carpenter said that the vice president wouldn’t have had a meeting with a company executive. “He was the vice president of the United States,” he said. “He met with prime ministers.”

This does not exclude the possibility that Biden briefly shook hands and chatted with Pozharskyi during a public event. Hunter Biden, for instance, helped arrange for a potential business partner, Jonathan Li, to shake hands with his father in the lobby of a Beijing hotel when the vice president made an official trip to China.

Pozharskyi, in the April 17 email, mentions that he spoke to Hunter “yesterday evening.” At the request of The Fact Checker, a Biden aide reviewed Biden’s schedule for April 16, 2015. The vice president gave remarks at the White House Greek Independence Day Reception, between 5 and 6 p.m., and then spoke to the Congressional Fire Services Institute Gala, from 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m., the aide said.

What does Hunter Biden say?
Asked to verify whether the email is genuine, Hunter Biden’s attorney George Mesires told The Fact Checker: “We have no idea where this came from, and certainly cannot credit anything that Rudy Giuliani provided to the NY Post, but what I do know for certain is that this purported meeting never happened.”

Are there errors in the New York Post report?
A separate article, about another email, claims that a public relations company that worked for Burisma was allowed to take part in a conference call about an upcoming visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine. But there was nothing secret about this call, and the transcript was released publicly and posted on the White House website.

More broadly, the New York Post repeats the falsehood, advanced by Trump, that the “elder Biden pressured government officials in Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating the company.”

We have fact-checked this repeatedly. During President Barack Obama’s second term, Biden was in charge of the Ukraine portfolio, keeping in close touch with the country’s president, Petro Poroshenko. Biden’s brief was to sweet-talk and jawbone Poroshenko into making reforms that Ukraine’s Western benefactors wanted to see as part of Ukraine’s escape from Russia’s orbit. But the Americans saw an obstacle to reform in Viktor Shokin, the top Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the United States viewed as ineffective and beholden to Poroshenko and Ukraine’s corrupt oligarchs. In particular, Shokin had failed to pursue an investigation of the founder of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky.

The U.S. Embassy in Kyiv proposed that Biden, during his 2015 visit there, use a pending delivery of $1 billion of loan guarantees as leverage to force reform. Biden addressed the Ukrainian parliament, decrying the “cancer of corruption” in the country and criticizing the prosecutor’s office. During that visit, Biden privately told Poroshenko the loan guarantees would be withheld unless Shokin was replaced. After repeated calls and meetings between the two men over several months, Shokin was removed and the loan guarantees were provided.

Pavlo Klimkin, Ukrainian foreign minister from 2014 until Aug. 29, 2019, said that the firing of Shokin was universally urged by Ukraine’s benefactors. “The demand came not just from the U.S., and not just from Biden,” he said. “I heard it in every meeting with the international financial institutions, especially the IMF and World Bank. It was not just Biden. Clearly.”

Colin H. Kahl, Biden’s national security adviser at the time, told The Fact Checker that “our policy on corruption and Shokin in Ukraine kept getting tougher across 2015, so the whole theory of the case [in the New York Post] makes no sense.”

Why is this coming out now?
Good question. The FBI supposedly obtained the hard drive earlier this year from John MacIsaac, who said he owns the Wilmington Mac Shop.

MacIsaac told reporters on Wednesday that a MacBook laptop was dropped off at his shop in Wilmington, Del., in April 2019. MacIsaac, who said he was legally blind, said that he was almost certain that it was Hunter Biden who dropped off the computer. He said that he made several attempts to get in touch with Hunter Biden but the equipment was still in his hands 90 days after it had been left there, and he said that he became curious about what he’d seen.

He made a copy of the hard drive and gave it to Giuliani. This past weekend, Giuliani passed a copy to the New York Post. But presumably the laptop would have been of use to the year-long Senate investigation, which found no wrongdoing by Biden.

As Giuliani has sought to locate information about Hunter Biden and Ukraine, he has regularly interacted with a Ukrainian lawmaker who was recently sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department as being an “active Russian agent for over a decade” and was engaged in an influence operation to affect the 2020 election. Those interactions have given rise to fears that the emails could be part of a broader disinformation campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/14/hunter-bidens-alleged-laptop-an-explainer/

Overheal

eagle eye wrote: »

How is that an answer to the question you quoted?

How is THAT an answer to the question YOU quoted?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Tell me how wrote: »

Even the owner of the news paper that 'broke' the story about Biden's laptop doesn't like Trumps chances.

Are you sure it's not a bluff?

The man is running a hell of a lot of positive Trump pieces on Sky News Australia lately. Not a guy generally taken to backing the losing horse!

thebestwords

Overheal wrote: »

Wapo

So what, the questions posed could to be applied to pretty much any piece of information. There is no outright denial the emails are fake.

The Clinton campaign offered an outright denial that the emails were fake when they weren't back in 2016, why should I believe a thing they say.

dark crystal

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Are you sure it's not a bluff?

The man is running a hell of a lot of positive Trump pieces on Sky News Australia lately. Not a guy generally taken to backing the losing horse!

Precisely, that's the whole point of the piece. He's switched to backing the winning horse

thebestwords

hetuzozaho wrote: »

A note in which you could still click through to the article. That was my experience anyway. I could still view the article via twitter.

Is that even censorship? I don't claim to be an expert on this.

Accounts were suspended/blocked for linking to the article, including the White house press secretary and Judiciary GOP twitter accounts.

Quin_Dub

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Is there any good bullet point explanation of the whole Biden Burisma thing.

The articles being linked are all "smoking gun" and "bombshell" but confusing/vague on what is actually going on. Maybe just ignorance on my part. I need an "explain it like I'm five" list of facts.

Here you go.

• Joe Biden as US Vice President , with the support of both parties in both houses of US Government , along with full support from the EU , pushed Ukraine to remove a rampantly corrupt Attorney General , threatening to hold up funds until the did so.
  
• Hunter Biden with what has to be said , pretty crappy timing and sense for Optics , took a snr role in a Ukrainian Energy Company
  
• The now Fired (but still staggeringly corrupt) ex Ukrainian AG suggests that Biden only pushed to have him fired because he was just about to (no honestly , the very next day , definitely) open investigations into Burisma , the company that Hunter Biden was working for.
  
• At no time has there even been a shred of evidence to support this claim from the disgraced AG , in fact he was specifically fired for NOT investigating potential corruption among various Oligarchs.
  
• Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma was investigated at the time by US ethics officials and they found nothing whatsoever wrong with his role there , although they did say that the optics of it weren't great - which as I've said they weren't
  
• Nobody gave a damn about any of this until it became clear that Biden was likely to with the Democratic party nomination.
  
• Suddenly, Trump and his mouth-pieces start sh!t-posting on twitter and fox etc. trying to gin up allegations that Biden's actions were to protect Hunter from investigation/prosecution.
  
• Trump then makes his infamous "perfect call"
  
• Impeachment then ensues.
  
• Rudi Guiliani , in trying to build an impeachment defence for Trump, goes to Ukraine along with Breitbart on a fishing expedition and meets Andrej Derkach (the now persona non grata'd Russian Spy) who tells Rudi he has ALL the dirt.
  
• Rudi falls for this guff and tries to pull stroke , which back-fires badly resulting in the arrests of Lev Parnas and Igor Furman.
  
• The whole Biden/Burisma/Ukraine angle goes quiet as Trump shifts to "OBAMAGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - Which according to Trump and Fox is the greatest act of treason in the history of the world.
  
• Yesterday morning , the investigation tied to OBAMAGATE was quietly closed , with Zero arrests and so little information found that they couldn't even be bothered to release a report. In other words , just like every other investigation into a Trump fever dream - A complete and utter fabricated DUD.
  
• Only a few hours later , the "SMOKING GUN!!!!!!!!!" story appears in the New York Post using screen-shots of screen-shots of emails they allege came from a computer owned by Hunter Biden. The meta-data of these screen-shots show that they were created last November.
  
• So , Rudi et al had this at least as early as last November , before the Impeachment trial and before the Senate investigation but decided not to use it. Why on earth would they do that???
• But instead thought that he'd hold on to it until his Boss was down 10 points in the Election with less than 3 weeks to go.

Make of that what you will , but it lacks a certain "ring of truth" and involves far too many "coincidences" and beneficial timing if you ask me.

But that's just my opinion.

Overheal

Igotadose wrote: »

Really? You don't care about his addiction that he's struggled to kick? Then why did you post this:

As I pointed out earlier, a lot is said of the user who proudly admitted earlier they can't hold down one user account. It speaks to posting in bad faith.

Overheal

thebestwords wrote: »

So what, the questions posed could to be applied to pretty much any piece of information. There is no outright denial the emails are fake.

The Clinton campaign offered an outright denial that the emails were fake when they weren't back in 2016, why should I believe a thing they say.

So you simultaneously are shrieking that the emails must be true because they haven't been "outright" denied,

While also arguing that if they did deny it, it wouldn't matter, because Hillary.

Great contribution, really moves the conversation along. :rolleyes:

hetuzozaho

thebestwords wrote: »

Accounts were suspended/blocked for linking to the article, including the White house press secretary and Judiciary GOP twitter accounts.

Is it not just all a distraction though? Like again I'm discussing twitter with you ha. You tricked me into it again!

Like there doesn't seem to be any substance from these people. (trump et al) It's all bluff and vagueness. Something big coming. Conspiracy. Bombshell. Fake news. Enemy of the people. It's all just nothing.

You've Cruz there, I don't know if this article is true but I want twitter in here next week outrage.

There's never a thing, just a whole load of outrage at MSM and Twitter.

Maybe I'm making no sense!

thebestwords

Overheal wrote: »

As I pointed out earlier, a lot is said of the user who proudly admitted earlier they can't hold down one user account. It speaks to posting in bad faith.

It's because I waste too much time on boards when I get into it, specifically on political threads. It's just a massive waste of time, you should know that being an American and spending so much time on an Irish forum.

briany

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Do you remember the recent UK election polls? Forecasting a tight race, right up until the end... then the Tories won in a bloodbath!

Er, no. Most polls had the two parties about 10 points apart. How exactly do you interpret that as a tight race?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election#2019

Labour ended up with 32 percent of the popular vote and the Conservatives got 43, which is roughly in line with what polls were predicting in the days leading up to the election. Labour tried to put a brave face on it, which was about all they could do.

At no point in the election campaign did the polls look tight.

Tell me how

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Are you sure it's not a bluff?

The man is running a hell of a lot of positive Trump pieces on Sky News Australia lately. Not a guy generally taken to backing the losing horse!

Does he know Australians can't vote in the US election?

Overheal

thebestwords wrote: »

It's because I waste too much time on boards when I get into it, specifically on political threads. It's just a massive waste of time, you should know that being an American and spending so much time on an Irish forum.

No, going from your posts on this account it's almost assuredly because you're inconsistent and can't keep your narratives straight. As soon as you didn't like that this Hunter Biden drug story wasn't losing him any support in this thread, you suddenly complained about it being brought up, despite having frequently done so yourself, in incredibly derogatory ways.

Might be time for a new account where you can pretend to be even more consistent and upright?

Quin_Dub

stefanovich wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmzfZcDd9e4

It's kicking off!

And when exactly will they get time for this before the Election given that they are busy ramming through the SCOTUS confirmation?

Will they prioritise this above a floor vote for the Stimulus bill?