Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

If the issue is ICU beds, and I think the only issue is ICU beds, then surely a well placed call by Leo into Boris will sort that easily enough. The UK have literally thousands of mothballed ICU beds, which weren’t even used last time, let alone in this wave. There were 3,000 ICU beds in the London nightingale hospital alone. Or am I missing something

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

Somebody leaked that letter, but I wouldn't be too sure that it was Tony Holohan.

Leo getting lots of good press here and elsewhere tonight for sticking it to NPHET. But I'm a bit concerned that our totally competent political leaders are saying one thing and our medical experts are saying another. Which one of them would you bet on eventually being proved right?

NPHET may as well be staffed by Nazi's in the eyes of many on here, but I will eat my hat if we don't end up exactly where they are telling us we will end up.

Some of the hysterical shrieking on the relaxation thread is so toxic. Some are thinly veiled anti vaxxers. Others are blatant ageist. I find it very sad that anybody would have such a myopic view on life. Very much a me fein attitude.

iguana

Stormyteacup wrote: »

You would imagine 7/8 months in there would be some evidence that ‘long-Covid’ is more prevalent than any other post-viral complications.

And if that many were being reinfected, with all the data collected from contact tracing we could cross check if people are presenting twice for Covid 3/4 months from first positive?

Not really, during our first wave we most likely identified somewhere between 5 and 10% of the infected. We have no real data whatsoever here about the amount of people who had "long Covid." There were claims from Sweden that 15% of infected people had symptoms for at least 3 months. And back in April, data taken in Korea showed 37% of people in one facility had symptoms for over 30 days.

The same is true of reinfections. The populations in countries were most cases were detected, Korea, Singapore, New Zealand, etc are not at real risk of reinfection because of how low their current infection rates are. In Europe, the US, South America, etc, where people are at higher risk of infection, the majority of infections were never confirmed, so we almost no real idea if any recent infections are reinfections. Yet, despite it being rare to have not just a confirmed infections twice, but to have the genetic sequence of both viral swabs analysed and confirmed to be reinfections. There have been numerous such cases confirmed. Not a huge amount, but this is a situation where the adage, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," is extremely apt.

manniot2

An Ri rua wrote: »

You'd rather we had a scandal in a year's time where it comes out in a review or tribunal that professional advice was ignored by semi-literate politicians and their journeymen media advisers?? After all the deaths? That's how we do sh1t in Ireland. Bullsh1t reviews, wipe our feet ón families.
Can you imagine the AG's advice being ignored? Clearly NPHET felt constrained in recent months by the Covid sub-comi-teeee and wanted the Irish people to know their professional assessment. Not good politics, but very effective.
I, for one, am glad that NPHET's advice resonates with my analysis of the figures and my dismay at seeing crowds outside pubs and kids going outside counties to play matches. I mean come on folks. We're not being responsible, not remotely.
Thanks to Holohan's brave stance, I feel assured in taking the moves necessary to protect vulnerable people in my family.
Abre los ojos.

No answer so

MrMusician18

almostover wrote: »

It's going to be a career defining interview regardless of the result. If the price to pay wasnt death it would make for fantastic political entertainment. If level 3 works this government will look heroic for their common sense approach. If level 3 delays an inevitable slide to level 5 in the lead up to xmas then they are as good as finished. Big thing is that government is now driving the bus, if it crashes there's no one else to blame. I hope they've gotten it right

I was thinking this earlier that today felt in some ways like when the government in 08 announced the Bank Guarantee. Another day that Government plotted its own course.

ixoy

froog wrote: »

The problem is not whatever level we're on, it's public compliance which is abysmal right now. People should stop being angry at NPHET and politicians and start directing it towards the morons ****ing this up for the rest of us.

This. It's why I think the additions in Level 4/5 won't make much of a difference except for small businesses because people aren't doing the basics. Closing a bookshop or barbers won't fix that.

Arghus

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Where are they telling us we'll end up? I haven't seen any mention of it.
Rolling beat downs is all i'm seeing.

Countrywide level 5, but with twice as many daily cases. You can't say we haven't been warned.

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well its a fairly big issue if the HSE don't agree with what your recommending

HSE , or Paul Reid , has been pulling against NPHET since he fxxxed up with nursing home staffing etc and PPE , and he had to account for it himself .
He's a political animal not someone who should be in charge of our health service .
How fast you all forget ..

igCorcaigh

ixoy wrote: »

This. It's why I think the additions in Level 4/5 won't make much of a difference except for small businesses because people aren't doing the basics. Closing a bookshop or barbers won't fix that.

True, but that means that we give up on government policy as a way of steering public health in the midst of a pandemic.

That's an opinion that I can't accept.

manniot2

froog wrote: »

The problem is not whatever level we're on, it's public compliance which is abysmal right now. People should stop being angry at NPHET and politicians and start directing it towards the morons ****ing this up for the rest of us.

Or maybe this is an infectious virus and being angry at people for trying to live a normal existence while they can in a tough world, is crazy.

Goldengirl

eigrod wrote: »

Apparently every two people in ICU need 1 trained nurse 24/7. A person in ICU on a ventilator needs 1 trained nurse on a one to one 24/7. Pretty expensive, not to mention getting a supply of available trained nurses. Pretty expensive.

Multiply those numbers x 5 to cover days off etc.

ForestFire

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1313242375754600450

Let's take personal responsibility.......??


Can someone let Conor know his been hacked

MrMusician18

eleventh wrote: »

Whoever leaked it should be sacked anyway. It's not something that should happen again. Enough fear going around without adding to it.

What I found interesting is that the whole leaked letter hasn't been published. Claire byrne only had a snippet.

It would point perhaps to the leaker fearing that there were several slightly different versions of the letter circulated as an anti-leak measure.

spookwoman

majcos wrote: »

The 277 figure is referring to the number of ICU beds opened and staffed as of 6.30 pm on the 4th of October as in the HSE operations report yesterday. 238 of them were occupied and 39 were available for new admissions. Some of those would be ICU beds in sub specialist ICU units. For example, there could be an open ICU bed in the neurosurgery ICU but that would not be the right place to put a suspected or confirmed Covid case needing ICU care.

ICU open and staffed bed counts got up to over 400 during to Covid peak. This was done by a whole myriad of actions and processes. Additional areas of hospitals were repurposed to function as ICU beds. Theatre recovery areas for example that are normally occupied by patients who have just had operations were converted. Surgeries were cancelled to do that. Nurses operated through ‘buddy’ systems. One fully trained ICU nurse working with a nurse with less ICU experience to look after two patients at a 1:1 ratio but with extra pressure on both the experienced ICU and their buddy. Many ICU nurses did extra shifts. That can be done for a while but is not a long term solution as staff would quickly burnout. Staff in those critical care areas took no leave and staff were redeployed from teaching and management roles so that increased the bank of staff for a while.

13/04/2020 HSE operational report Nothing on how many Private beds. Later I see private mentioned and only a max of 25 available.
500 CC Beds, 415 Open and staffed, 280 occupied reserved, 144 covid in ICU, 135 Vacant CC beds
Goes up to 541 CC Beds, 428 occupied.

majcos

Deleted User wrote: »

If the issue is ICU beds, and I think the only issue is ICU beds, then surely a well placed call by Leo into Boris will sort that easily enough. The UK have literally thousands of mothballed ICU beds, which weren’t even used last time, let alone in this wave. There were 3,000 ICU beds in the London nightingale hospital alone. Or am I missing something

Moving a patient in ICU from one country to another is a big ordeal. Needs special transportation and staff. Even moving a patient from one ICU to another within Ireland is complex and depletes staffing. This was done in Ireland during Covid peak. When one hospital was reaching limit, patients were transferred out to other hospitals and regions with lower incidences and/or more ICU capacity to try and open up an ICU bed again in original hospital so that need for having to choose between patients would not happen.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Great to see the flu jab is so abundant.
Strange how I have to wait until November for mine......

Try O'Connell's Pharmacy

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some of the hysterical shrieking on the relaxation thread is so toxic. Some are thinly veiled anti vaxxers. Others are blatant ageist. I find it very sad that anybody would have such a myopic view on life. Very much a me fein attitude.

It's what hackers call a target rich environment. I'm not saying boards users are being hacked before anyone gets their knickers in a twist. Just that the sociopath and tin foil hat types are usually the easiest to compromise.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of the hysterical shrieking on the relaxation thread is so toxic. Some are thinly veiled anti vaxxers. Others are blatant ageist. I find it very sad that anybody would have such a myopic view on life. Very much a me fein attitude.

This attitude is an enormous road block when discussing Covid.

1/3 of Irish adults wont take a vaccine according to a survey conducted recently. Anti vaccine or not its a huge road block to the use of a vaccine.

The median age of death is 88 in Ireland, with 100 deaths occuring in ICU if the figures can be extracted correctly. This is also fair game for discussion as Covid is ageist unfortunately, not the discussion around it.

Now having been told by Sam Mconkey last March over 100k would die I think every aspect of Covid should be freely discussed without an attitude like above.

We are bombarded with case rates on a daily basis and arbitarty data like 57% of cases are under the age of 45, so I think discussion on who Covid effects and why, is important without throwing out terms like ageist and anti vaccer

TonyMaloney

majcos wrote: »

The 277 figure is referring to the number of ICU beds opened and staffed as of 6.30 pm on the 4th of October as in the HSE operations report yesterday. 238 of them were occupied and 39 were available for new admissions. Some of those would be ICU beds in sub specialist ICU units. For example, there could be an open ICU bed in the neurosurgery ICU but that would not be the right place to put a suspected or confirmed Covid case needing ICU care.

ICU open and staffed bed counts got up to over 400 during to Covid peak. This was done by a whole myriad of actions and processes. Additional areas of hospitals were repurposed to function as ICU beds. Theatre recovery areas for example that are normally occupied by patients who have just had operations were converted. Surgeries were cancelled to do that. Nurses operated through ‘buddy’ systems. One fully trained ICU nurse working with a nurse with less ICU experience to look after two patients at a 1:1 ratio but with extra pressure on both the experienced ICU and their buddy. Many ICU nurses did extra shifts. That can be done for a while but is not a long term solution as staff would quickly burnout. Staff in those critical care areas took no leave and staff were redeployed from teaching and management roles so that increased the bank of staff for a while.

I fear we have enough known cases already in the system that will eventually require ICU that our regular capacity will be breached regardless of what level we went to this evening, and they'll have you rearranging the hospitals again.

Arghus

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of the hysterical shrieking on the relaxation thread is so toxic. Some are thinly veiled anti vaxxers. Others are blatant ageist. I find it very sad that anybody would have such a myopic view on life. Very much a me fein attitude.

That thread is what it is and is a waste of time. Let them off.

Strumms

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

A lot of people here seem to be praising the government for standing up to NPHET. Showing them who's in charge, etc. It's bizarre, they're only trying to protect people. This isn't a win.

I’d rather listen to nphet. They have a singular agenda and focus, keeping us alive, healthy and well...I don’t trust these politicians.

stockshares

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What I found interesting is that the whole leaked letter hasn't been published. Claire byrne only had a snippet.

It would point perhaps to the leaker fearing that there were several slightly different versions of the letter circulated as an anti-leak measure.

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1313213362432606211?s=19

Download here
https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#october

Non solum non ambulabit

There is a lack of understanding in the public what level 5 means.

Don't leave your home unless essential. Do not visit your family or friends. No visitors to your home. exercise within 5km.

Level 5 once implemented wil be in place for 12 weeks minimum. So Christmas was lost even if implemented today.

It is extreme and NPHET had no exit strategy out of it. Over winter months we were never going back to a lower level.

niallo27

almostover wrote: »

It's going to be a career defining interview regardless of the result. If the price to pay wasnt death it would make for fantastic political entertainment. If level 3 works this government will look heroic for their common sense approach. If level 3 delays an inevitable slide to level 5 in the lead up to xmas then they are as good as finished. Big thing is that government is now driving the bus, if it crashes there's no one else to blame. I hope they've gotten it right

You make it sound like level 3 is some kinda wash your hands restrictions, you realise tens of thousands will be out of work tomorrow night again, probably for good this time. You realise we can't leave our county, its the harshest restrictions in all of Europe.

John O.Groats

Arghus wrote: »

That thread is what it is and is a waste of time. Let them off.

Agreed. It is of little or no value and with the majority of characters who post there being rabble rousers, trolls and ragtag nutjobs is it time to shut it down completely?

MrMusician18

stockshares wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1313213362432606211?s=19

Download here
https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#october

I stand corrected. Thanks.
The whole letter is an interesting read.

Thierry12

stockshares wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1313213362432606211?s=19

Download here
https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#october

Death part at end of course was intriguing

Avg 1 per day in August, 2 per day in September, 3 per day in October

We might get 7 per day in December at that rate, other 77 deaths per day we get will be cancer, heart disease, lung disease etc?

We know worst case now

WHO data says its 0.13% death rate for Covid

6500 people or 17 people a day will die if all 5,000,000 here get it

They should just publish those figures

Look 85 a day die, 17 will be Covid

That's all

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This attitude is an enormous road block when discussing Covid.

1/3 of Irish adults wont take a vaccine according to a survey conducted recently. Anti vaccine or not its a huge road block to the use of a vaccine.

The median age of death is 88 in Ireland, with 100 deaths occuring in ICU if the figures can be extracted correctly. This is also fair game for discussion as Covid is ageist unfortunately, not the discussion around it.

Now having been told by Sam Mconkey last March over 100k would die I think every aspect of Covid should be freely discussed without an attitude like above.

We are bombarded with case rates on a daily basis and arbitarty data like 57% of cases are under the age of 45, so I think discussion on who Covid effects and why, is important without throwing out terms like ageist and anti vaccer

The documentary "the social dilemma" is very relevant to that thread. People been socially engineered, it's sad to see. Vaccines are inherently good. People used to lose limbs to measles for God sake. Where is this study by the way?

Definitely could be one or two nefarious actors on it.

Edit: To clarify. I'm not suggesting Fintan is a nefarious actor.

MrMusician18

niallo27 wrote: »

You make it sound like level 3 is some kinda wash your hands restrictions, you realise tens of thousands will be out of work tomorrow night again, probably for good this time. You realise we can't leave our county, its the harshest restrictions in all of Europe.

Unless these rules are underpinned by legislation and actually enforced, it will be a case of as you are.

I don't really have any real faith that the virus can be suppressed now as adherence has become so lax.

Arghus

It's amazing how willing people are to let the government off the hook for their many failings in handling all of this since the Summer - too numerous to mention - because Leo gave those bad guys in NPHET a public kicking.