Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

WoollyRedHat

I find it interesting that people are so quick to believe it was NPHET and not politicians responsible for last night's leak. Didn't realize people had become so trusting of the latter, especially ones that have form for leaking information, as well as pretending they're not in government making decisions at any given opportunity. Their game is politics after all.

Leo certainly is playing a bold statregy, if cases and hospitalizations continue to go on an upward trend, despite national level 3 restrictions and we do have to go into next level restrictions, he will be in a difficult position, with a sense of only havint delayed the inevitable and with possible great cost. Like someone else mentioned, I hope it works.

440Hertz

I’ve been unimpressed at the amount of preparation done in the windows they had. For example, all the school preparation seemed minimal and appears to all be done at the last minute before opening.

The health system issues seem to be similar.

John O.Groats

Arghus wrote: »

It's amazing how willing people are to let the government off the hook for their many failings in handling all of this since the Summer - too numerous to mention - because Leo gave those bad guys in NPHET a public kicking.

Indeed and many of those who were castigating Leo a few weeks ago are now shouting his praises from the rooftops just because he had a go at NPHET tonight. You couldn`t make it up.

eleventh

Arghus wrote: »

It's amazing how willing people are to let the government off the hook for their many failings in handling all of this since the Summer - too numerous to mention - because Leo gave those bad guys in NPHET a public kicking.

Stockholm syndrome

speckle

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

https://www.radiokerry.ie/no-critical-care-beds-currently-available-uhk/?fbclid=IwAR3otvunNjoLmeomUib85jiSUS68rwklsoPwk8-NmksrdNKXu_-Fvn4M1xE

No more critical care beds in Kerry

Kerry has always had problems. In recent years it lost its consultant cardiac specialist and had to close that ward. It still does not have a respiratory specialist on site.
The ICU consisted of 3/4 beds and two extra separate rooms at the end of the ward in an old building.


They managed to get a good cardiac specialist just at the start of covid, but still had to buy in time from the respiratory specialist in the near by private hospital, for serious covid patients. The do have a good team of anesthesiologists.



They also used the private public deal the best during covid, with the private hospital having one of the largest occupancy at circa 85% from a lot of public patients that were seen as outpatients or kept as inpatients.



They had two separate A and E areas for covid as well as separate wards, I happened to be on the phone to A and E, the first day they had no covid patients and I could hear their relief and jubilation as I congratulated them.


So even with as little as they have now, 2 covid and 2 suspected cases, the ordinary patients are too much. Last time some of the positive refugees were transferred to hospital in Cork. They also have a backlog of cases from earlier in the year as well as the usual ever long waiting lists.



However, that being said, Kerry did good job last time around with 6/7 deaths up to now, and covid didn't infect the nursing homes. How it will go this time around with no body knows yet.


But fair dues to the people of kerry and the medical staff, may they deal with the coming weeks just as effectively.

Paddygreen

I think we should use the next crucial three weeks to reflect on the death all around us.

Non solum non ambulabit

Level 3 has worked in Dublin. It can work nationwide.

TonyMaloney

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Level 3 has worked in Dublin. It can work nationwide.

That is far less reassuring looking than you seem to realise

fritzelly

Was there a press conference?

spookwoman

speckle wrote: »

Kerry has always had problems. In recent years it lost its consultant cardiac specialist and had to close that ward. It still does not have a respiratory specialist on site.
The ICU consisted of 3/4 beds and two extra separate rooms at the end of the ward in an old building.


They managed to get a good cardiac specialist just at the start of covid, but still had to buy in time from the respiratory specialist in the near by private hospital, for serious covid patients. The do have a good team of anesthesiologists.



They also used the private public deal the best during covid, with the private hospital having one of the largest occupancy at circa 85% from a lot of public patients that were seen as outpatients or kept as inpatients.



They had two separate A and E areas for covid as well as separate wards, I happened to be on the phone to A and E, the first day they had no covid patients and I could hear their relief and jubilation as I congratulated them.


So even with as little as they have now, 2 covid and 2 suspected cases, the ordinary patients are too much. Last time some of the positive refugees were transferred to hospital in Cork. They also have a backlog of cases from earlier in the year as well as the usual ever long waiting lists.



However, that being said, Kerry did good job last time around with 6/7 deaths up to now, and covid didn't infect the nursing homes. How it will go this time around with no body knows yet.


But fair dues to the people of kerry and the medical staff, may they deal with the coming weeks just as effectively.

Latest Trolley watch for them is
5/10/2020 University Hospital Kerry Trolley=23 ward=0
cork not much better at 32.
Limerick stay away @ 39=Trolley 20=ward

Rjd2

Deleted User wrote: »

The documentary "the social dilemma" is very relevant to that thread. People been socially engineered, it's sad to see. Vaccines are inherently good. People used to lose limbs to measles for God sake. Where is this study by the way?

Definitely could be one or two nefarious actors on it.

Edit: To clarify. I'm not suggesting Fintan is a nefarious actor.

The issue with the vaccine for people is they are wary of been guinea pigs for it, I know speaking to some, the feeling is they want to see if it has any negative effects initially before they take it.

I know the anti vaccine lot in many countries are mainly fringe right wing lunatics, but its lacking nuance to suggest those in Ireland who are wary of a vaccine are the same.

TonyMaloney

I fear today might mark the start of another Saipan saga for Ireland, though obviously nowhere near as divisive

bb1234567

Thierry12 wrote: »

Death part at end of course was intriguing

Avg 1 per day in August, 2 per day in September, 3 per day in October

We might get 7 per day in December at that rate, other 77 deaths per day we get will be cancer, heart disease, lung disease etc?

We know worst case now

WHO data says its 0.13% death rate for Covid

6500 people or 17 people a day will die if all 5,000,000 here get it

They should just publish those figures

Look 85 a day die, 17 will be Covid

That's all

It may be 0.13 in parts of the developing world where most peopel are children. But it's clearly not the case in Europe, the US, South America. Like are you for real or just being facetious? Excess deaths in Madrid are 0.3% of the city's population, same with NYC,Mexico city, Lima..and cases are accelerating yet again in places like Madrid and NYC, therefore many people have not been infected, and the IFR is therefore considerably higher than 0.3%

Btw if you seriously believe the IFR is 0.13% then that means you believe 1/3 of the Irish population have been infected based onn our current number of deaths. This would of course be highly concentrated in Dublin and given the recent dramatic rise in cases in the city I think you can work out by yourself that this scenario is clearly not reality

speckle

If NEPHET resign, after that spat today, they have no backbone. That does not negate any good work that they have done in the past.

Rjd2

Rjd2 wrote: »

The issue with the vaccine for people is they are wary of been guinea pigs for it, I know speaking to some, the feeling is they want to see if it has any negative effects initially before they take it.

I know the anti vaccine lot in many countries are mainly fringe right wing lunatics, but its lacking nuance to suggest those in Ireland who are wary of a vaccine are the same.

I work in pharma. Do you know the reason a vaccine won't be available until next summer because the FDA and EMA test to highly rigorous standards? Thr chosen vaccine will have been tested to the nth degree before it reaches us mere mortals.

The_Brood

stockshares wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1313213362432606211?s=19

Download here
https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#october

So according to Holohan we are doomed and if we do not go into Level 5 we have no hope. Nothing is speculative or probable in his wording, he is flat out saying we are doomed.

So...either we are failed by everyone and doom befalls us as Holohan warns.

Or that man must be criminally persecuted for sending the country into total panic.

Either way, all hell is to be set loose. You cannot have the Chief Medical Officer proclaiming that we are utterly doomed and the government saying it won't listen to him - someone here is massively wrong, and neither can afford to be.

Deeper Blue

Leo was fantastic tonight. Fair ****s to him.

stockshares

The_Brood wrote: »

So according to Holohan we are doomed and if we do not go into Level 5 we have no hope. Nothing is speculative or probable in his wording, he is flat out saying we are doomed.

So...either we are failed by everyone and doom befalls us as Holohan warns.

Or that man must be criminally persecuted for sending the country into total panic.

Either way, all hell is to be set loose. You cannot have the Chief Medical Officer proclaiming that we are utterly doomed and the government saying it won't listen to him - someone here is massively wrong, and neither can afford to be.

We don't know who leaked the letter .

If Nephet did it it was stupid and reckless. I can't see any benefit to them in leaking it .

If GOV did it they are backing the economy over health and deliberately weakening Nephet.

The response from Nephet tomorrow will tell a lot .

TCDStudent1

The_Brood wrote: »

So according to Holohan we are doomed and if we do not go into Level 5 we have no hope. Nothing is speculative or probable in his wording, he is flat out saying we are doomed.

So...either we are failed by everyone and doom befalls us as Holohan warns.

Or that man must be criminally persecuted for sending the country into total panic.

Either way, all hell is to be set loose. You cannot have the Chief Medical Officer proclaiming that we are utterly doomed and the government saying it won't listen to him - someone here is massively wrong, and neither can afford to be.

To me, a key sentence in the letter is about disease modelling predicting cases of between 1600 - 2300 per day. I wonder if this modelling has been accurate in it's predictions so far. Interestingly, it wasn't something Varadkar referred to in the interview.

wes

speckle wrote: »

If NEPHET resign, after that spat today, they have no backbone. That does not negate any good work that they have done in the past.

They shouldn't resign, if they turn out to have been right, then Martin and Varadkar should resign.

Arghus

speckle wrote: »

If NEPHET resign, after that spat today, they have no backbone. That does not negate any good work that they have done in the past.

It could become very difficult for Tony Holohan to stay in charge. He gave advice, very clear advice and it's been rebuffed and leaked to the media. It's a political shitstorm waiting to get going. He couldn't have been clearer - and the government has chose to ignore that advice, publicly, and criticise that advice, publicly.

This is all politics now and I feel it's like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. He wasn't pulling those numbers and projections out of nowhere. This political posturing that's going on at the moment is happening while we are losing control of the spread of the virus. The politicians are trying to wrestle back control of this through politicking, but, fck me, how short are people's memories - they have not shown themselves to have any clue about how to fight this. And now they are going against public health advice that couldn't be any clearer or stark? I get a real bad feeling about this, all of this.

Rjd2

Deleted User wrote: »

I work in pharma. Do you know the reason a vaccine won't be available until next summer because the FDA and EMA test to highly rigorous standards? Thr chosen vaccine will have been tested to the nth degree before it reaches us mere mortals.

That's fair, did not know about your job so fair play.:)

I will take the vaccine, but don't think its fair to assume that all those who aren't as keen on it are fringe loons.

Its going to be the job of the government etc to educate on this.

Open the Pubs

Varadkar humiliated Holahan. All the cringey slobberers over Holahan will be raging.

Holahan Glynn and NPHET should resign or disband immediately in disgrace, Varadkar is totally correct.

Varadkars finest moment as a leader and politician tonight.

Open the Pubs

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Varadkar humiliated Holahan. All the cringey slobberers over Holahan will be raging.

Holahan Glynn and NPHET should resign or disband immediately in disgrace, Varadkar is totally correct.

Varadkars finest moment as a leader and politician tonight.

So you think we should disband the public health committee that deals with emergencies during one of the biggest crises to hit Ireland ever?

shocksy

Just like FF and the spectacular f*ck up they caused with the financial crash, they're going down the route of another monumental f*ck up with this pandemic. After today, and ignoring the advice of NPHET, if things do get worse in the coming weeks they will have a huge amount to answer for and should never ever be in government again and FG won't be much better. Everyone congratulating Leo for tonight, it was only a few weeks ago he would of been public enemy number one. How people soon forget. And it will be the same when our health service goes to sh!t and the very same people calling Leo a hero tonight will be calling for his and the governments heads. Going against public health advice is a very bad move. As for the economy, we could just keep borrowing to some extent. Yes many businesses will go under and cause hardship for families but that's unfortunately life, same way it will happen in other countries. The main priority needs to be eradicating this virus. People bounce back and supports can be put in place. New businesses will open up. That's the way of life, always has been and always will be. We bounced back after the last recession when businesses crumbled. There's always someone new out there waiting to open up a new business.

stockshares

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

To me, a key sentence in the letter is about disease modelling predicting cases of between 1600 - 2300 per day. I wonder if this modelling has been accurate in it's predictions so far. Interestingly, it wasn't something Varadkar referred to in the interview.

I thought the most important number was that 42 per day will be admitted to hospital by Nov 7th.

There's only 39 free beds atm going by ICU numbers posted in thread previously.

If GOV have got it wrong(and I think they have ) it will be a bleak winter.

People are not following guidelines now so situation won't change.

As Holahan says in letter, if level 5 is imposed later it will only serve as a mitigation measure .

The fact that a problem arose because the letter said its recommendations should be implemented by Monday night could have been overcome by simple communication.

The Gov simply decided to use it to weaken Nephet but they have made a serious mistake by sticking with level 3.

Guidelines are no good without strict enforcement.

Hulk Hands

Arghus wrote: »

It's amazing how willing people are to let the government off the hook for their many failings in handling all of this since the Summer - too numerous to mention - because Leo gave those bad guys in NPHET a public kicking.

Fianna Fail have the office of Taoiseach and Health and their approval rates are so low they're in danger of going out of existence. It's completely understandable that people react positively when Varadkar correctly identifies the mood of the nation and represents that articulately. That's not to say FG haven't had errors either but they're not the main ones to blame

Icantthinkof1

Are those icu bed numbers excluding those in the private hospitals?

MrMusician18

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Varadkar humiliated Holahan. All the cringey slobberers over Holahan will be raging.

Holahan Glynn and NPHET should resign or disband immediately in disgrace, Varadkar is totally correct.

Varadkars finest moment as a leader and politician tonight.

I know your just another rereg troll but Varadkars behavior tonight was disgraceful. Whatever about disagreeing with your expert advisors, you don't throw them under the bus like he did. What leo managed to achieve is that no one in the CS will want to advise this government as civil servants will see themselves as expendable when it's politically desirable.

What we will end up with is government will get advice that it wants to hear rather than the unvarnished honest opinions of experts that it needs to hear.

stockshares

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

Are those icu bed numbers excluding those in the private hospitals?

I don't think the private beds are available anymore.