Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

Goldengirl

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I find it interesting that people are so quick to believe it was NPHET and not politicians responsible for last night's leak. Didn't realize people had become so trusting of the latter, especially ones that have form for leaking information, as well as pretending they're not in government making decisions at any given opportunity. Their game is politics after all.

Leo certainly is playing a bold statregy, if cases and hospitalizations continue to go on an upward trend, despite national level 3 restrictions and we do have to go into next level restrictions, he will be in a difficult position, with a sense of only havint delayed the inevitable and with possible great cost. Like someone else mentioned, I hope it works.

Leo will then come out with spin that they were trying to save the public the pain of lockdown but due to rising cases and hospitalisations it is now unavoidable and isn't it better that they gave the National Plan a whirl rather than wasting it and just going straight to level 5 ? !
And he'll let MM break the bad news on the day..

Goldengirl

fritzelly wrote: »

Was there a press conference?

Apparently so, 9.30 on the news channel, but Claire Byrne was on at the same time , and had Leo on slating NPHET , so Donnelly and Pascal were no match for that .
Couldn't have done it better if they planned it

Arghus

Goldengirl wrote: »

Leo will then come out with spin that they were trying to save the public the pain of lockdown but due to rising cases and hospitalisations it is now unavoidable and isn't it better that they gave the National Plan a whirl rather than wasting it and just going straight to level 5 ? !
And he'll let MM break the bad news on the day..

I think you have predicted the future there with depressing accuracy.

Happydays2020

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-localised-covid-19-solutions-not-lockdown-1.4372677?mode=amp

Jack Lambert makes some very good points in this article. And indeed a lot of what people here have been saying. Politely gets in a few digs at the media and some of the experts they use and very much at NPHET (and their so called expertise).

I suggested previously that NPHET should be disbanded and there should be a dedicated and resourced COVID division in Dept of Health - perhaps it is better to do this within Department of the Taoiseach which has been a strategy used in the past to ensure priority. We need to manage now and we need to manage into the future.

The status quo cannot continue. It is in no ones interest that the public health experts have lost the dressing room.

Goldengirl

speckle wrote: »

If you are inferring that I am naive enough to believe anything without back up data and research from anybody, including Paul Reid or the government etc. you have got me wrong.


All of the above that you posted re staff I know well. Yes, you are right re the HSE need to take a lead role and do much, much better. But that does not stop me, thinking ahead, creating ideas and forward planning. However, there is only so much one ordinary person like myself can do, and I have been trying my best since January.



It is really about my post stating there is a need, and yours for the posting the mistakes made and the obstacles to that, so ordinary people here know the issues, which they can bring to the social/media , their TD's or family members abroad, if we don't talk about it, no solution will be found and to hell with them/staff being here for any wave.:eek:



Regarding my examples, possibly you did not read all the links and only looked at the video. I included a research paper on the fully functionally 130 bed ICU, that yes, it was set up in a car park. Whether it is used for covid or non covid patients, well that's a choice. See my post on for example Kerry university Hospital re covid and covid separation, in this country.


And here is the video were the guy in charge discusses a little bit about it.
Sweden@2mins. florida@21mins, bahrain@42 mins, ICU field hospital @51mins, @1hr08mins. And yes, on their corona committee in Bahrain was an Irish guy, Prof. Martin Corbally


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-6Gf2iDJvM

I didn't infer anything .
I have no argument with what you say .
Annoyed that people still believe that man when all he has done is duck and dive throughout and now Leo carrying on in a nasty style reminiscent of Boris and Trump .
That is all .
Also , yes Martin Corbally is one of the good guys , shows the quality of staff that have been taken by other countries .

Goldengirl

gilmour wrote: »

I swore to myself months ago that i'd never post in this thread but i can't help but chime in here. I'm in agreement with everything you're saying. That "leak" last night did not come from Nphet or Holohan, in fact i'd be willing to bet a few quid that it was Varadkar himself.

What puzzled me about his interview tonight was his "they'll not do that again" attitude coming from the very man who was at a Gala in Washington only to be briefed in very similar abrupt circumstances that something had to change immediately. But because he was the Taoiseach and not sniping from the shadows he arranged an immediate intervention that was broadcast to the nation within hours that set the country into a blind panic with runs on the supermarkets. Was he wrong at the time? No, absolutely not. But did that experience vanish from his memory? Or is it because he is absolutely loving the position of being in the shadows spraying the political football like Pirlo in his prime with his "What about if we took Belgiums approach?" "International travel within a fortnight should happen" musings on twitter....

What does he benefit from it? He has the other clowns head on a spike for the next 3 weeks while Nphet are now completely and utterly demeaned in similar fashion to how Trump torched Fauci and the CDC in the states.

He is an arrogant self serving ****.

This ...totally agree .

moonage

Dissenting scientists issue Covid-19 herd immunity declaration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_Z7Gf1aRE

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

https://unherd.com/2020/10/covid-experts-there-is-another-way/

Goldengirl

moonage wrote: »

Dissenting scientists issue Covid-19 herd immunity declaration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_Z7Gf1aRE

https://unherd.com/2020/10/covid-experts-there-is-another-way/

Ah yes that extreme theoretical epidemiologist rises again , the one that impressed so many on Prime Time a few weeks ago , talking utter tripe .

ToddDameron

So while ignoring guidelines is being attributed to the rise in cases, Leo decides to publicly undermine the people making the guidelines. Genius.

speckle

moonage wrote: »

Dissenting scientists issue Covid-19 herd immunity declaration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_Z7Gf1aRE

https://unherd.com/2020/10/covid-experts-there-is-another-way/

Unlike other posters here, who obviously did not listen to all of the above video, which is longer than the time they took to post a negative reaction I did, even though I really wanted to go to bed.


As a high risk person in more than one way, (I am also the person in the tiny minority who might get infected more than once!)I agree with the strategy as long as the details are put in place for high risk people, and we have enough hospital bed space for the under 60s, a minority of who will become unwell.
It at least needs to be discussed openly, as an option.


If I survived on high dose immunosuppressants before and managed to live my life around that in normal times without the whole country worried I might get chickenpox or other nasty stuff.



I think I would prefer this option, than rolling lock downs and restrictions, which makes a life just about getting by, rather than living.



I would rather at least to hear about my friends and familys interesting escapades, even if I can't join in, then hear about how worried they are about everything.


More papers research papers are starting to be recently published on community immunity, in geographic areas as having been possible obtained, but it is more than that, it is truest/tried and tested form of public health that these epidemiologists are talking about, and we should at least listen to them to see if this may be a path for Ireland before out right objecting.



I think they touch on in the video most of the objectors points, that have made us afraid of trying this avenue. Courage not fear. Nite all.

Gael23

Makes the stay and spend scheme not very useful

patnor1011

speckle wrote: »

Unlike other posters here, who obviously did not listen to all of the above video, which is longer than the time they took to post a negative reaction I did, even though I really wanted to go to bed.


As a high risk person in more than one way, (I am also the person in the tiny minority who might get infected more than once!)I agree with the strategy as long as the details are put in place for high risk people, and we have enough hospital bed space for the under 60s, a minority of who will become unwell.
It at least needs to be discussed openly, as an option.


If I survived on high dose immunosuppressants before and managed to live my life around that in normal times without the whole country worried I might get chickenpox or other nasty stuff.



I think I would prefer this option, than rolling lock downs and restrictions, which makes a life just about getting by, rather than living.



I would rather at least to hear about my friends and familys interesting escapades, even if I can't join in, then hear about how worried they are about everything.


More papers research papers are starting to be recently published on community immunity, in geographic areas as having been possible obtained, but it is more than that, it is truest/tried and tested form of public health that these epidemiologists are talking about, and we should at least listen to them to see if this may be a path for Ireland before out right objecting.



I think they touch on in the video most of the objectors points, that have made us afraid of trying this avenue. Courage not fear. Nite all.

Thank you. As a fellow vulnerable person who is frankly sick of this woke nonsense that "we must do this to protect our vulnerable" where pretty much nothing which is proposed can help us but just make our life worse, I am glad there is more of us.
Government should focus to increase ICU in case it will be needed not just for covid and not to pay people for sitting on their arrse in home.
I get it. It is fantastic for some people to be able to sit at home while on full pay. They would be singing a different song when they would be welded in their houses or apartments with just basic rations delivered to them once a week. The last lockdown was a joke anyway when third of the population was
required to go as if nothing was happening to cater for the rest who were "locked down".

mandrake04

rob316 wrote: »

Again on new Zealand. It's an island on the other side of the world 6 hours away from the nearest country.

Never heard such rubbish, NZ is 3hrs flight from Sydney.

SeaBreezes

Sorry, didnt watch video, but is it definate you can GET immunity? I thoight that was the issue? Its only temporary and every infection weakens your immune system so eventually it will kill even the healthiest?

If it was get it once, immune for even 3 years i thought it would be herd immunity as the eventual goal.

But iran seems to indicate thats not possible?

patnor1011

mandrake04 wrote: »

Never heard such rubbish, NZ is 3hrs flight from Sydney.

The same rubbish as comparing NZ to Ireland. The only thing we have in common is that both are islands. Oh yeah - and we have nearly the same population but that is about it. Even here any comparison ends as NZ is about 3.5x bigger than Ireland.

Yeah, 3hrs flight is really something.
You can probably row on a small boat to the nearest country from here. Or have a 3-second walk if you want to go through border to NI.

mandrake04

patnor1011 wrote: »

The same rubbish as comparing NZ to Ireland. The only thing we have in common is that both are islands. Oh yeah - and we have nearly the same population but that is about it. Even here any comparison ends as NZ is about 3.5x bigger than Ireland.

Yeah, 3hrs flight is really something.
You can probably row on a small boat to the nearest country from here. Or have a 3-second walk if you want to go through border to NI.

I’m not comparing Ireland to NZ, I just pointing out the facts that nearest country is not 6 hrs away.

I understand why Ireland can not emulate NZ the free movement and border blah blah ... I wasn’t disputing that. I like NZ it’s a great country, I think they have done really well.

patnor1011

mandrake04 wrote: »

I’m not comparing Ireland to NZ, I just pointing out the facts that nearest country is not 6 hrs away.

I understand why Ireland can not emulate NZ the free movement and border blah blah ... I wasn’t disputing that. I like NZ it’s a great country, I think they have done really well.

Free movement is not blah blah.
It is funny to watch people comparing Ireland or our response to some selected countries and then these very same people get their knickers twisted when there is a talk comparing covid to other viruses. Mainly flu but even here they loathe flu-covid comparison and love to fantasize about ebola-covid comparisons or estimates.
The whole covid situation is becoming ridiculous.

mandrake04

patnor1011 wrote: »

Free movement is not blah blah.
It is funny to watch people comparing Ireland or our response to some selected countries and then these very same people get their knickers twisted when there is a talk comparing covid to other viruses. Mainly flu but even here they loathe flu-covid comparison and love to fantasize about ebola-covid comparisons or estimates.
The whole covid situation is becoming ridiculous.

Yeah it is it’s blah blah..same old story...we all know.

I’m not getting my knickers in a twist about anything, never mentioned flu or Ebola like I said I was pointing out the stupidity of saying NZ was 6 hours from the nearest country when it not it’s 3 hrs. It’s rubbish.

I’m sure Kiwis are not that concerned about Ireland either, they be too busy enjoying summer, beach, cool beers living a quality life.

Polar101

Arghus wrote: »

People have amazing, truly amazing faith on here, that the government are making the right call. Okay then, I hope - sincerely - that they are right and that my gut feeling is totally wrong. I will be delighted to be wrong. But, first, ask yourself one question - Since this government took power name one previous decision the government has taken up to this point which has proved to be the right one or hasn't later had to be amended or revised?

Going to take a slightly differing view here. Just because NPHET recommended Level 5, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best idea. Moving 24 counties from Level 2 to 5 and 2 from 3 to 5 would have been a very drastic measure. And it would've gone against the plan the government released just 3 weeks ago. It's not March any more, we've meant to be "living with COVID-19" as per the plan.

Level 3 restrictions are already quite strict - no traveling outside your county, for example. And it seems like they might be having some effect in Dublin, especially if there is a little bit of enforcing the restrictions, and not just "pretty please, don't have a house party?".

TexasTornado

Lol. Posters (rightfully) ridiculing Trump for his blatant disregard for the health of the public and almost in the same breath praising the master of spin and PR Varadkar for doing the exact same thing.

Funsterdelux

Just to remind folk where sars cov 2 was probably just over a year ago.



I prefer viruses to have mutated and passed around humans a fair bit longer before I get them.

peter kern

TexasTornado wrote: »

Lol. Posters (rightfully) ridiculing Trump for his blatant disregard for the health of the public and almost in the same breath praising the master of spin and PR Varadkar for doing the exact same thing.

if you had to chose between the 2 people to lead ireland which one would you chose ...

suicide_circus

peter kern wrote: »

if you had to chose between the 2 people to lead ireland which one would you chose ...

Tony Holohan

manniot2

I wonder does Tony have a collection of his newspaper front pages? Destroying a country, cervical check scandals ...has any man done more damage in his time?

CruelSummer

Goldengirl wrote: »

Leo will then come out with spin that they were trying to save the public the pain of lockdown but due to rising cases and hospitalisations it is now unavoidable and isn't it better that they gave the National Plan a whirl rather than wasting it and just going straight to level 5 ? !
And he'll let MM break the bad news on the day..

MM has lacked leadership and ran rings around by NPHET and others. At least Varadkar is taking a long awaited stand against what was complete madness that we just hopped up to level 5 from 2 - the only country in Europe to do so. How anyone can support level 5 is beyond me. It would most likely result in a pay and pensions cut for public service workers at the very least, mass unemployment in the private sector, other health issues left idle, and no end goal in sight. No guarantee of when we reopen. Melbourne is still under strict restrictions in Australia - talked to someone there last night. They’re under that since the start of July & didn’t have our other never ending Lockdown either.
Posters on here suggesting it was Varadkar that leaked Sunday night have reached a new low in their argument. NPHET have consistently leaked their meeting recommendations, I especially noticed it coming up to Dublin moving to level 3. They had multiple press leaks, tweets from their own personal accounts, interviews to media. All seemingly before the cabinet sub committee even sat down to consider them, never mind the cabinet.

Lex Luthor

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Just to remind folk where sars cov 2 was probably just over a year ago.



I prefer viruses to have mutated and passed around humans a fair bit longer before I get them.

:D:D

Deshawn

manniot2 wrote: »

I wonder does Tony have a collection of his newspaper front pages? Destroying a country, cervical check scandals ...has any man done more damage in his time?

Sometimes having a person to blame makes it easier to try and deal with a situation that is both out of your control and is of a scale that you can't comprehend.

Wanderer78

manniot2 wrote: »

I wonder does Tony have a collection of his newspaper front pages? Destroying a country, cervical check scandals ...has any man done more damage in his time?

Or saved as many people, so Tony personally created covid, and personally designed such a fragile economic system and personally caused all of the fcuk ups in the HSE?

Lex Luthor

The 5 Level plan was supposed to be there for controlled situations with living with COVID. From what I was reading yesterday there wasnt sufficient evidence in the 14 day average to move to Level 3 country wide

A month ago Kildare Laois & Offaly were locked down because of local numbers and 2 weeks ago Dublin

Now we have a country wide L3 when some counties dont have the numbers to back that up

Although I feel that locking down individual counties is really difficult to do as apart from a sign on the road that you are now Entering blah blah, its not exactly easy to manage

I really feel for the hospitality trade in all this, restaurants are now back to serving 15max outside, how is that even possible as we come into winter

OscarMIlde

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

You know between all the back and forth here this is the most important part of his interview for me. It's about time reality was laid out for the public , especially the lockdown merchants. It was asked a hundred times with the first lockdown what happens when we open and cases climbs and some just want to stick their head in the sand and say we just go into another lockdown. It should have been said long ago by the government

How are 'lockdown merchants' to blame for this? Surely it's the fault of people who abused the freedoms we were given after the initial lockdown was lifted and have contributed to increased community spread. No one 'wants' a lockdown. What many people fear are the consequences if the spread isn't contained at this stage. It's a hell of a lot easier to keep the genie in the bottle in the first place than try to push it back in after the fact. If everyone would just cop on and act responsibly maybe we could avoid a level 5 lockdown. If we don't we won't, it will eventially come to that, however unpalatable that sounds.