Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

polesheep

average_runner wrote: »

So your saying let the virus run free and if it causes damage so be it?


Just trying to get a view from all ?


One of my parents just gone into a nursing home and I can see the staff are very worried about the virus, that they bring it in and cause damage.

Staff in nursing homes are indeed very concerned and you can see why when you consider how they were treated at the outset. It's difficult enough to have a parent go into a nursing home at any time, never mind when there is a pandemic on, but try to remember that Covid isn't a death sentence for the elderly. My aunt who turned 98 this year and is in a nursing home has had it and recovered, as did most of the other residents who had it. Unfortunately, the restrictions in the nursing homes will make it difficult for you to smoothen the move for your parent into the home but there are great people working in the nursing homes providing excellent care. Best of luck.

Penfailed

Tenzor07 wrote: »

A great example of the cluelessness on how the transport of goods in and out of this state operate, each truck driver gets a limited amount of time to get his truck out of port and to the destination, a perfect example of this was shown at the UK border where after Brexit the additional delays will cause 10km tailbacks and many just in time delivery companies will now go out of business. Perishable foods and medicine delivery will be severely impacted.

On an Island that depends on the free flow of trade in and out of the state any delays would cause absolute chaos.
Checking Truck drivers hasn't been needed all through this.

• Who is going to pay for all this testing?
• Who will staff and administer this?
• Will the staff required at the ports be taken from other areas such as hospitals and HSE clinics at a time when they are short staffed?
• Has it been proven that truck drivers are a major source of causing the spread?

Came out of Lockdown too early? Are you truly delusional or something?

• Pubs closed since March Not true
• Only country in Europe where Bars/restaurants are closed. Not true
• Office workers at home since March Not true
• Public transport at 50% capacity. I don't have the facts
• No Tourists since March. Not true
• Multiple business closures in the past few months
• In danger of having only 1 Airport operational on the Island.

The only thing that's different between now and the start of the Lockdown are the Schools being opened...

.

dalyboy

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes like Tony and the government making excuses as to why we can’t isolate the vulnerable.

Because it’s too much work and planning for them and HSE, and they’d rather take the easier short term solution of putting those who contribute least income tax revenue out of work. Forgetting of course that all those out of work would previously have spent their money on socialising, shopping, travelling, personal grooming and generally keeping an economy prosperous, adding money to the pot that runs, among other things, a health system that thousands of people need to avail of for reasons other than Covid.

Seriously - I’ve yet to see one good argument against implementing measures to protect the vulnerable only, other than ‘its too difficult’. Why is it? We’re already most of the way there in the general population.

Lazy and incompetent leadership has us in this position - not Covid.

Adding to this , if we shielded the vulnerable for 3-6 months the rest of us will have developed an already proven herd immunity while the vulnerable will be safe in temporary protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_Z7Gf1aRE&t=5s

I’ve been saying this since back in April.

Benefits to this strategy =

1- the unaffected population can go back to work

2- the economic devastation will be less severe

3- social and cultural activities can resume

4- most importantly, the vulnerable will be safer in the long run with this plan as the ultimate outcome will be less infectious people for them to catch covid

The people who are against a herd immunity plan can’t see the wood from the trees. (And are maybe enjoying the mayhem / upheaval that’s occurred over the last 8 months)

Oh and the argument of staffing this vulnerable protection plan doesn’t hold water with me.
Use constant test (10 minute test) of care staff / nursing staff.
Buy hazmat suits for those staff if necessary
The option they choose to destroy the economic and social fabric of Ireland is off the wall

Kiwi in IE

facehugger99 wrote: »

Saying lockdowns are effective is like saying burning down a house is an effective way to get rid of a mouse.

This ^ Maybe a rat though, or a poisonous snake. I completely agree.

3xh

Danica Freezing Brow[quote A great example of the total and utter cluelessness circulating around this thread. The lockdown was a massive success, we got from over 1000 cases and in the region of 100's of deaths per day down to single digit cases and no deaths many days. We came out of it too early, like a camp fire that's almost out and walk away and leave it - next thing we have a forrest fire...[/quote]


Don’t be spouting.

Ireland has about 100 deaths a day inclusive of all headings. Are you saying all deaths in March - May were Covid related?

Dionaibh

dalyboy wrote: »

Adding to this , if we shielded the vulnerable for 3-6 months the rest of us will have developed an already proven herd immunity while the vulnerable will be safe in temporary protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_Z7Gf1aRE&t=5s

I’ve been saying this since back in April.

Benefits to this strategy =

1- the unaffected population can go back to work

2- the economic devastation will be less severe

3- social and cultural activities can resume

4- most importantly, the vulnerable will be safer in the long run with this plan as the ultimate outcome will be less infectious people for them to catch covid

The people who are against a herd immunity plan can’t see the wood from the trees. (And are maybe enjoying the mayhem / upheaval that’s occurred over the last 8 months)

Oh and the argument of staffing this vulnerable protection plan doesn’t hold water with me.
Use constant test (10 minute test) of care staff / nursing staff.
Buy hazmat suits for those staff if necessary
The option they choose to destroy the economic and social fabric of Ireland is off the wall

It's a great idea. Predictably enough, however, Johnson's Government has rejected it.

In my opinion, the problem is that a lot of people like living through a pandemic. The idea of surviving against all the odds makes people feel courageous and heroic. Add to that 24/7 news coverage and 24/7 social media and you have a recipe for disaster.

FintanMcluskey

Dionaibh wrote: »

In my opinion, the problem is that a lot of people like living through a pandemic. The idea of surviving against all the odds makes people feel courageous and heroic. Add to that 24/7 news coverage and 24/7 social media and you have a recipe for disaster.

You could be on to something here.

Those who want the level 5 want to be able to talk about living through it, a high in an otherwise mundane existence.

I had forgotten, but you reminded me, about some woman last Spring, who used social media to broadcast her dying mothers final hours to the world.

FintanMcluskey

Madrid high court have found the recent restrictions unlawful.

Interestingly they still had less restrictions on citizens than Ireland.

Dionaibh

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You could be on to something here.

Those who want the level 5 want to be able to talk about living through it, a high in an otherwise mundane existence.

I had forgotten, but you reminded me, about some woman last Spring, who used social media to broadcast her dying mothers final hours to the world.

That's exactly what I mean. It brings a sense of purpose to people's lives. What they believe to be "a daily struggle against all the odds" and "living through a historic pandemic". And, as I said, add social media to that and you've got a never-ending pandemic. 130 million more people are at risk of starving to death because of all of this, and still people go on and on about cases.

facehugger99

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Madrid high court have found the recent restrictions unlawful.

Interestingly they still had less restrictions on citizens than Ireland.

You would be so jealous of other countries.

They actually have debates and allow alternative media and political opinions.

Here we get the state broadcaster pumping out fear and hysteria 24/7 and if anyone in authority dares to question the Covid-approach they are hounded out of office.

It is not healthy to have this level of groupthink at decision making level. These restrictions should be challenged at every step of the way to see if they make sense and can be justified and what is the data we're basing them on.

Covid has exposed a real deficit at the heart of this country. It has exposed the contempt to which normal citizens are held by the political and societal elite.

Would any other country harass it's citizens as they attempted to go about the fully lawful business the way the government and guards have done over the last 2 days?

I've never been embarrassed to be Irish before but the last 7 months have left me deeply ashamed at the politicians that we as an electorate have voted to represent us and the deference to authority that most of the country have meekly accepted.

Dionaibh

facehugger99 wrote: »

You would be so jealous of other countries.

They actually have debates and allow alternative media and political opinions.

Here we get the state broadcaster pumping out fear and hysteria 24/7 and if anyone in authority dares to question the Covid-approach they are hounded out of office.

It is not healthy to have the level of groupthink at decision making level. These restriction should be challenged at every step of the way to see if they make sense and can be justified and what is the data we're basing them on.

Covid has exposed a real deficit at the heart of this country. It has exposed the contempt to which normal citizens are held by the political and societal elite.

Would any other country harass it's citizens as they attempted to go about the fully lawful business the way the government and guards have done over the last 2 days?

I've never been embarrassed to be Irish before but the last 7 months have left me deeply ashamed at the politicians that we as an electorate have voted to represent us and the deference to authority that most of the country have meekly accepted.

I'm terribly ashamed to be Irish as well.

Ireland has no opposition in Government and no opposition in the media. No alternative voice is allowed. Groupthink everywhere.

elynam

The government messaging has scared the population into terrified hibernation. Consider the following:-

If we do 500 tests a day on very symptomatic people (i.e. March/ April this year) we can expect almost all will be positive. If we do 12,000 tests on mostly asymptomatic people (what's happening now) and we get 3% positive we can tell that there is very little disease around and most of it is mild.

There are very few COVID deaths - seasonal illness at this time of year is normal and can be expected. Those that do die from/ with COVID are median age of 85+. There are 25 in ICU today compared to 155 at the peak in March/ April. This pandemic is over. The likes of Sam McConkey need to realise that and accept that they are plain wrong. The comments he makes defy belief (and science). He needs to be gotten off the airwaves - he is scaring people needlessly.

For the first time I am considering voting for and alternative party who would stand up to this nonsense. Sinn Fein maybe? Unconscionable before March. Something has to be done to stick up to the crazies in NPHET who are driving this country into oblivion.

elynam

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1314159651664076805?s=20

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

You would be so jealous of other countries.

They actually have debates and allow alternative media and political opinions.

Here we get the state broadcaster pumping out fear and hysteria 24/7 and if anyone in authority dares to question the Covid-approach they are hounded out of office.

It is not healthy to have this level of groupthink at decision making level. These restrictions should be challenged at every step of the way to see if they make sense and can be justified and what is the data we're basing them on.

Covid has exposed a real deficit at the heart of this country. It has exposed the contempt to which normal citizens are held by the political and societal elite.

Would any other country harass it's citizens as they attempted to go about the fully lawful business the way the government and guards have done over the last 2 days?

I've never been embarrassed to be Irish before but the last 7 months have left me deeply ashamed at the politicians that we as an electorate have voted to represent us and the deference to authority that most of the country have meekly accepted.

The term NPHET is not accurate, it should be named NCET- National Covid Emergency Team.

The have no consideration whatsoever for public health in general, only Covid.

It is a group think organisation of 40 narcissistic medics, who, as someone commented elsewhere, are motivated only by status.

These people have recommended Ireland is the most restricted nation in Europe since June, for no good reason.

Take a look at the sound bites from NPHET last July when Europe was back to normal and Ireland had tiny case numbers, "deeply concerned" "R0 number rising".
Watching the RO number when cases were under 20 is nothing short of criminally negligent hysteria from medics supposedly concerned with public health.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53424074

Isnt that some **** we were listening to, 14 cases and they were watching the R number. That is an abdication of science from that group. All the while the Italians and Europeans relaxed with life back to normal

There is no out of this with the leaders we have.

It pains me to say it, but John Waters could be our only hope

Penfailed

facehugger99 wrote: »

Would any other country harass it's citizens as they attempted to go about the fully lawful business the way the government and guards have done over the last 2 days?

Ha! How many people have been fined for non-compliance of Covid restrictions in Ireland? You have no idea what harassment really is.

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Small-anti-mask-protest-in-Paris-ends-with-mass-mask-fines-from-police

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/07/20/almost-1000-people-fined-for-not-wearing-mask-in-spains-malaga/

Dionaibh

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The term NPHET is not accurate, it should be named NCET- National Covid Emergency Team.

The have no consideration whatsoever for public health in general, only Covid.

It is a group think organisation of 40 narcissistic medics, who, as someone commented elsewhere, are motivated only by status.

These people have recommended Ireland is the most restricted nation in Europe since June, for no good reason.

Take a look at the sound bites from NPHET last July when Europe was back to normal and Ireland had tiny case numbers, "deeply concerned" "R0 number rising".
Watching the RO number when cases were under 20.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53424074

Isnt that some **** we were listening to, 14 cases and they were watching the R number. That is an abdication of science from that group. All the while the Italians and Europeans relaxed with life back to normal

There is no out of this with the leaders we have.

It pains me to say it, but John Waters could be our only hope

And the HSE should renamed the CSE (the Covid Service Executive).

Dionaibh

elynam wrote: »

The government messaging has scared the population into terrified hibernation. Consider the following:-

If we do 500 tests a day on very symptomatic people (i.e. March/ April this year) we can expect almost all will be positive. If we do 12,000 tests on mostly asymptomatic people (what's happening now) and we get 3% positive we can tell that there is very little disease around and most of it is mild.

There are very few COVID deaths - seasonal illness at this time of year is normal and can be expected. Those that do die from/ with COVID are median age of 85+. There are 25 in ICU today compared to 155 at the peak in March/ April. This pandemic is over. The likes of Sam McConkey need to realise that and accept that they are plain wrong. The comments he makes defy belief (and science). He needs to be gotten off the airwaves - he is scaring people needlessly.

For the first time I am considering voting for and alternative party who would stand up to this nonsense. Sinn Fein maybe? Unconscionable before March. Something has to be done to stick up to the crazies in NPHET who are driving this country into oblivion.

Great post, but I truly believe that a lot of people like, or even love, living through a pandemic. It brings excitement to their life.

facehugger99

elynam wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1314159651664076805?s=20

And as we've discovered, it probably even less than that as they are counting people who die with Covid as Covid deaths.

The risk of death from Covid is astronomically low. we have pissed away billions for almost nothing and far more people will die from the effects of approach in the years to come

elynam wrote: »

For the first time I am considering voting for and alternative party who would stand up to this nonsense. Sinn Fein maybe?

That is the truly depressing thing - the opposition are actually worse than the Government.

We have a systemic failure of political leadership which has been driven by our electoral system and the short-term and self-centered outlook of a substantial portion of the electorate.

Dionaibh

facehugger99 wrote: »

And as we've discovered, it probably even less than that as they are counting people who die with Covid as Covid deaths.

The risk of death from Covid is astronomical low. we have pissed away billions for almost nothing and far more people will die from the effects of approach in the years to come



That is the truly depressing thing - the opposition are actually worse than the Government.

We have a systemic failure of political leadership which has been driven by our electoral system and the short-term and self-centered outlook of a substantial portion of the electorate.

I don't know about worse, but there's no difference between them. The opposition is really just a few independent TDs.

And no alternative media is the biggest problem. Regardless of whether one thinks they're any good or not, in the US there's FOX, Breitbart, and a lot of conservative voices and media organisations. The UK has The Telegraph, the Daily Mail (kind of), Talk Radio, and a few other voices. Ireland may be unique in the world in having no alternative media or political parties (there are a few small parties that are trying to push through, but they have very little support).

KindOfIrish

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Madrid high court have found the recent restrictions unlawful.

Interestingly they still had less restrictions on citizens than Ireland.

To be fair I would prefer our restrictions to Spain's all the way. It is a madness to wear masks outside. I actually cancelled my traditional Christmas holidays in Spain for this particular reason. Not going to support their socialist government idiots with my euros.

facehugger99

Dionaibh wrote: »

Great post, but I truly believe that a lot of people like, or even love, living through a pandemic. It brings excitement to their life.

There is definitely an element of narcissistic preening to it. Very much a first-world issue. You won't find many people, struggling to feed their families in the slums, worried about Covid.

I think the response to Covid even 20 years ago would be markedly different. Politicians like Varadkar take their lead from their twitter timelines. The media are now driven by the need for clicks - it's about generating traffic, not reporting on the facts - the advertising is where they make their money and fear gets clicks.

FintanMcluskey

KindOfIrish wrote: »

To be fair I would prefer our restrictions to Spain's all the way. It is a madness to wear masks outside. I actually cancelled my traditional Christmas holidays in Spain for this particular reason. Not going to support their socialist government idiots with my euros.

Its swings and roundabouts.

The masks dont bother me, Ive been wearing them for 6 months at work.

Id rather be able to get a bit of lunch in a cafe, stay in a hotel and go out for dinner.

Something we wont be doing in Ireland for a substantial amount of time. May I would guess

Dionaibh

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is definitely an element of narcissistic preening to it. Very much a first-world issue. You won't find many people, struggling to feed their families in the slums, worried about Covid.

I think the response to Covid even 20 years ago would be markedly different. Politicians like Varadkar take their lead from their twitter timelines. The media are now driven by the need for clicks - it's about generating traffic, not reporting on the facts - the advertising is where they make their money and fear gets clicks.

Spot on. That's why I thought from the beginning that this was, for a number of reasons, the worst time to have a pandemic. The chief reason being social media and its influence on society and on public opinion. And then you have a media that questions nothing and churns out fear 24/7. So that's why I recommend people emigrate, if they can.

Just imagine the horror of 130 million more people being at risk of starving to death. The grief is overwhelming. But they continue with this nonsense so they can say that they "survived against all the odds".

_Kaiser_

Dionaibh wrote: »

Great post, but I truly believe that a lot of people like, or even love, living through a pandemic. It brings excitement to their life.

I don't think that's it.

There are many out there and on this forum who are doing quite well from the pandemic. They're working from home on full wages, no commute, no-one standing over their shoulder in the office, saving a fortune every month and if they're introverts it suits them down to the ground.

Then there are those who NEED the validation that they're doing the "right thing", something very easy to do in the current climate as no dissenting voices are permitted in the public domain and they're hounded if they do speak up. Likewise on this very forum where it's rampant. This is a relatively recent phenomenon brought on by the likes of Twitter and Facebook where the race is always on to be the next "viral" global thing - and it highlights perfectly the dangers of these platforms.

Then there are those who have been overwhelmed by the constant coverage, the selective use of numbers (the ever rising total number of cases and very little about the outcomes - unless it's negative), and the threats of more restrictions and daily finger-wagging.
I remember a skit on the original Spitting Image show with the Conservatives out campaigning and the joke was "If you repeat something often enough, people will believe it!" Well that's what's happening here and it's not funny.
A lot of people are genuinely scared and thinking that there is this deadly rampaging "thing" out there, almost like a flesh-eating virus from a horror movie.

The cost to mental health and social cohesion of all this is immense and getting worse by the month in my view, yet it's getting virtually no coverage or consideration in the media or decision-making.

walus

Zebra3 wrote: »

You must understand that the clapping for essential workers was not about clapping for essential workers.

That sort of crap is about making those taking part feeling better for themselves so they can go on FB and feel like they're taking part in something.

I hope you didn't see the video of the gimps singing Ireland's Call......

Totally. How must the firefighter feel about this? Is anyone clapping each time they go into a fire knowing they may not be coming back?
I bet they don't expect it - that is their job after all and they accept the risk that comes with it.

Dionaibh

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't think that's it.

There are many out there and on this forum who are doing quite well from the pandemic. They're working from home on full wages, no commute, no-one standing over their shoulder in the office, saving a fortune every month and if they're introverts it suits them down to the ground.

Then there are those who NEED the validation that they're doing the "right thing", something very easy to do in the current climate as no dissenting voices are permitted in the public domain and they're hounded if they do speak up. Likewise on this very forum where it's rampant. This is a relatively recent phenomenon brought on by the likes of Twitter and Facebook where the race is always on to be the next "viral" global thing - and it highlights perfectly the dangers of these platforms.

Then there are those who have been overwhelmed by the constant coverage, the selective use of numbers (the ever rising total number of cases and very little about the outcomes - unless it's negative), and the threats of more restrictions and daily finger-wagging.
I remember a skit on the original Spitting Image show with the Conservatives out campaigning and the joke was "If you repeat something often enough, people will believe it!" Well that's what's happening here and it's not funny.
A lot of people are genuinely scared and thinking that there is this deadly rampaging "thing" out there, almost like a flesh-eating virus from a horror movie.

The cost to mental health and social cohesion of all this is immense and getting worse by the month in my view, yet it's getting virtually no coverage or consideration in the media or decision-making.

I agree 100%.

Another poster mentioned John Waters. I often think of the following from an article he wrote when I consider the dangers of Twitter and Facebook you mention:

"In the not too distant future, should there be any sane and sentient adults capable of sifting through the ashes of the one-time Christian West, they will almost certainly conclude that it was Twitter, the generator of vile and hateful mobs, wot dunnit."

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

I've never been embarrassed to be Irish before but the last 7 months have left me deeply ashamed at the politicians that we as an electorate have voted to represent us and the deference to authority that most of the country have meekly accepted.

You, a person falling into the minority has no right to talk for the electorate. The gov overall have handled the pandemic very well and most of the country would agree - FG's massive increase in popularity should demonstrate what the people think.

They haven't been perfect and the following I would highlight as where they could have done better:

- Opened up too fast after the lockdown

- Didn't close airports, opened schools too early

- Opened schools too soon

- Didn't make restrictions law

- By not forcing people to abide by lesser restrictions they then didn't go strict enough soon enough - we should be at level 5 for the last few weeks with schools closed.

Patrick2010

I think all those posters calling for a level 5 total lockdown should declare if they would be personally affected by it and how.

Ashbourne hoop

Dionaibh wrote: »

Great post, but I truly believe that a lot of people like, or even love, living through a pandemic. It brings excitement to their life.

I've read some utter ****e on boards but that's up there with the best (worst) of them

darconio

So it's clear that many like us are against the lock-down and don't believe in this made up BS. However what can we do to regain our freedom? Because this is exactly what's happening to our lives and, if we let this progress, we'll end up forgetting what means socializing, going on holiday or even something simple like going shopping without wearing a mask or queuing up to buy a bottle of milk.