Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Zebra3

mikekerry wrote: »

they are about to use the "rainy day " fund in the budget.
It won't be long running out.

What was in the rainy day fund? €1.65bn?

And we've blown €9bn in borrowings since this all started.

What does that give us? Six weeks?

Penfailed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I have been using one of the visors for the last week as a compromise as I just can't get used to the masks - few people wearing them not including shop staff where they're frequently used.

I read something yesterday/day before though that suggested they're going to try and restrict those too

Doctor on the radio the other day reckons that they're (visors) not worth a shíte (paraphrasing).

_Kaiser_

Penfailed wrote: »

Doctor on the radio the other day reckons that they're (visors) not worth a shíte (paraphrasing).

And yet supermarket staff are using them since mandatory face coverings was brought in yet I haven't read of any outbreaks in that sector, and my local Dunnes staff are all still working every time I'm in.

Same story before any coverings were mandated at all.

Funny that

Diarmuid

facehugger99 wrote: »

Nothing - they are a frightening concept and anyone with a shred of intelligence should be deeply concerned they are even being discussed.

Maybe you're fine with saddling our children and grandchildren with €10's or even €100's of billions of euros of debt but let's hope more people don't have as selfish an outlook.t.

Not only that but we have also saddled them with unfunded liabilities which don't appear on any balance sheet. To the tune of €231bn

Add to that the unexpected and expected (climate change) issues that they are going to have to borrow for in their lifetimes, it's borderline criminal the attitude we as a society have to borrowing further money now

dalyboy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet supermarket staff are using them since mandatory face coverings was brought in yet I haven't read of any outbreaks in that sector, and my local Dunnes staff are all still working every time I'm in.

Same story before any coverings were mandated at all.

Funny that

If ever people need proof that the whole Covid fiasco (since day one) is based on pseudoscience then just look to the supermarket mask issues.

Science is about testing your hypothesis and determining a cause and effect.

2020 science died and was replaced with tokenism and virtue signalling

_Kaiser_

dalyboy wrote: »

If ever people need proof that the whole Covid fiasco (since day one) is based on pseudoscience then just look to the supermarket mask issues.

Science is about testing your hypothesis and determining a cause and effect.

2020 science died and was replaced with tokenism and virtue signalling

Indeed.. observed evidence and outcome is far more reliable as a metric than theory, models and speculation.

Same as how I keep saying that outcome of cases (observed results) is far more important than new cases (outcomes unknown) as a metric of where we REALLY are with CV-19

Don't Chute!

My wife rang me there to tell me the kids have been given an extra week for the midterm. My guess is they won’t be going back. The oul teachers must be loving this.

drunkmonkey

Penfailed wrote: »

Doctor on the radio the other day reckons that they're (visors) not worth a shíte (paraphrasing).

Either are masks when there's widespread misuse by almost everybody. They should not be mandated outside care environments and public transport. If you believe your responsible enough to take the proper precautions with one well then wear it if you so wish.

The maskers were quick enough to point out about a young doctor dying from covid a while back I didn't see any of them now acknowledge she died from a lethal dose from not using her mask properly, didn't change it in weeks. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/doctor-coronavirus-dead-adeline-fagan-new-york-masks-b865309.html

_Kaiser_

Don't Chute! wrote: »

My wife rang me there to tell me the kids have been given an extra week for the midterm. My guess is they won’t be going back. The oul teachers must be loving this.

Yep it's in the Indo:

The mid-term break for schools is expected to be extended as part of plans to curb Covid-19.

Schools are due to close from Monday, October 26 to Friday, October 30.

But the Government is now likely to add on an extra week to the break.

Senior Coalition sources say such a proposal has been discussed briefly but no firm decision has been made.

Rrrrrr2

Don't Chute! wrote: »

My wife rang me there to tell me the kids have been given an extra week for the midterm. My guess is they won’t be going back. The oul teachers must be loving this.

On what basis? Is there going to be online home learning provision? Or are they dumping them at home yet again, high and dry?

acequion

facehugger99 wrote: »

We were told at the start that the lockdown was to flatten the curve and give more time for the health service to ramp up capacity to deal with the virus.

That narrative was highjacked by the zero-Covid zealots in NPHET and a cowardly and weak Government hid behind them. The HSE are delighted that people are lapping up case numbers at 6pm every day rather than asking them hard questions about ICU capacity.

We are now 7 months later, trapped in a lockdown/open up cycle that has no logic and no endgame other than 'pray like fcuk we get a vaccine before the money runs out'.

That is a very apt summary of the situation describing it perfectly.

I read somewhere that Ireland is the 3rd biggest nanny state in Europe after England and Finland. Must be vying for first place with the way they've handled this! People will say that some of us are exaggerating with talk of a police state and maybe so. But there is no doubt whatsoever that there is a love affair with autocracy in Ireland and people power is weak. I was very uneasy at the start that they wouldn't stop at flattening the curve, that autocrats and power /ego trippers like people in Govt and NPHET would latch onto this and turn it into a major deal. And I was right to be concerned. Seven months on we have the harshest restrictions in Europe, the most hysterical media propaganda and no end in sight. And anyone that says that is an exaggeration is either in denial or has a vested interest in this.

So I'm praying like holy fcuk for a vaccine if we are ever to get our freedoms back! :eek:

Rrrrrr2

Don't Chute! wrote: »

My wife rang me there to tell me the kids have been given an extra week for the midterm. My guess is they won’t be going back. The oul teachers must be loving this.

The laziness and willing to drop all and do nothing at the strike of a hat is now breathtaking in this country.

Rrrrrr2

mikekerry wrote: »

they are about to use the "rainy day " fund in the budget.
It won't be long running out.

I reckon that will last about one week at current spending rates

Don't Chute!

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

On what basis? Is there going to be online home learning provision? Or are they dumping them at home yet again, high and dry?

My guess would be, eh, the latter?

Don't Chute!

We had booked a couple of nights in Mount Juliet for my parents as a birthday present for my mam. Had to cancel. Meanwhile I see on Facebook my wife’s best friend over in Sweden is currently on a long weekend spa break in Gothenburg with her sisters. Lucky them eh? My mates in Sweden cannot believe how seriously we’re taking this thing. They’re laughing at us.

SusieBlue

SusieBlue wrote: »

It worked for as long as the lockdown lasted, as a very wise poster here said yesterday.
As soon as the lockdown was lifted cases started rising again, as was expected. More movement will always = more cases.

So unless we plan to stay in full lockdown with only essential services operating and over 1.2 million people relying on financial support from the state until there’s a vaccine, they’re completely pointless and do not work.

Lockdowns suppress the virus, they do not cure it. Suppressing it for years on end is simply not an option. It’s only been just under 7 months and the country is already on its knees.
This isn’t sustainable for another week, let alone another six months.

Millions of lives were indirectly ruined by coronavirus from the lockdowns. Those people matter just as much as those who have contracted the virus.

Yes, I agree with practically all of that (bar the last two sentences). The point was made that the 1st one did SFA in terms of suppressing the virus, as evidenced by the fact that we now had 100s of cases. This is flawed logic. It's the equivalent of regularly cutting the grass, then stopping for 4 weeks and, when the grass is up to your knees, claiming that lawnmowers are useless.

The 1st lockdown was effective, it did its job. There are other factors and ramifications in play, of course, and plenty of negatives that can be levied against it......but using the current numbers as a stick with which to beat it is bordering on delusion.

Supercell

I'm getting the Flu vaccination next week as i'm in one of the risk groups, its in Bray which is in Wicklow but very close to me here (Loughlinstown, Dublin), should I bring a written confirmation of the appointment with me in case stopped by the Gardai?, I'm assuming crossing the county border is ok for medical reasons like this?

Stormyteacup

paw patrol wrote: »

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iG4iYvvw_uPC4s88dN167QOCP4_p93di


list here.


Tracey OMahony does a walk- through of the legislation.
Interesting to know what the law actually says and not what RTE or the TDs tell you.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SxPG_3ArlQ

Much appreciated. Good watch - and the more facts you have when out and about converting the lemmings the better.

I’ve started mentioning herd immunity too but you really have to dance delicately around that one. Gives many the vapours.

I was until recently keeping my opinions mostly to myself in real life. It’s been good for the head to voice them out loud.

And there are many more people with similar opinions than I thought - but reluctant to share them with you until they know how they will be received.

Frustrating how slowly the tide is turning, though I think it’s picking up momentum?

weldoninhio

dalyboy wrote: »

If ever people need proof that the whole Covid fiasco (since day one) is based on pseudoscience then just look to the supermarket mask issues.

Science is about testing your hypothesis and determining a cause and effect.

2020 science died and was replaced with tokenism and virtue signalling

One of the mask nuts will be along any second now with the cartoon of someone sneezing, with and without a mask, to set you straight!!!

dundalkfc10

Supercell wrote: »

I'm getting the Flu vaccination next week as i'm in one of the risk groups, its in Bray which is in Wicklow but very close to me here (Loughlinstown, Dublin), should I bring a written confirmation of the appointment with me in case stopped by the Gardai?, I'm assuming crossing the county border is ok for medical reasons like this?

Are you having a laugh? Just tell them none your business where im going

_Kaiser_

Supercell wrote: »

I'm getting the Flu vaccination next week as i'm in one of the risk groups, its in Bray which is in Wicklow but very close to me here (Loughlinstown, Dublin), should I bring a written confirmation of the appointment with me in case stopped by the Gardai?, I'm assuming crossing the county border is ok for medical reasons like this?

Travel for medical appointments is a valid reason - but as noted by the other poster, there's no legal recourse for them to turn someone around anyway unless that person volunteers to do so.

As I said yesterday, there's a lot of talk about policing by consent, but it's more policing by intimidation lately. Most people will be reluctant to challenge the "advice" of a Garda at a checkpoint, regardless of the legality of same.

robbiezero

Supercell wrote: »

I'm getting the Flu vaccination next week as i'm in one of the risk groups, its in Bray which is in Wicklow but very close to me here (Loughlinstown, Dublin), should I bring a written confirmation of the appointment with me in case stopped by the Gardai?, I'm assuming crossing the county border is ok for medical reasons like this?

An email on your phone should do the job in the very unlikely event that they are out next week.

Supercell

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Travel for medical appointments is a valid reason - but as noted by the other poster, there's no legal recourse for them to turn someone around anyway unless that person volunteers to do so.

As I said yesterday, there's a lot of talk about policing by consent, but it's more policing by intimidation lately. Most people will be reluctant to challenge the "advice" of a Garda at a checkpoint, regardless of the legality of same.

Thanks, just wanted to check in case a Garda might get a bit snappy with me if it wasn't considered a valid reason but looks like they will accept it, all good!

dalyboy

weldoninhio wrote: »

One of the mask nuts will be along any second now with the cartoon of someone sneezing, with and without a mask, to set you straight!!!

Exactly. 2020 bugs bunny science awaits

elynam

facehugger99 wrote: »

We were told at the start that the lockdown was to flatten the curve and give more time for the health service to ramp up capacity to deal with the virus.

That narrative was highjacked by the zero-Covid zealots in NPHET and a cowardly and weak Government hid behind them. The HSE are delighted that people are lapping up case numbers at 6pm every day rather than asking them hard questions about ICU capacity.

We are now 7 months later, trapped in a lockdown/open up cycle that has no logic and no endgame other than 'pray like fcuk we get a vaccine before the money runs out'.

Agreed. That said I did see a report that the HSE CEO was against Level 5. Anyway, this pandemic is over, the problem is not the virus, it's the level of mis-information being spread about it and the focus on cases versus the real data; ICU, deaths. Median age of morality; 85+

According to the WHO around 10% of the worlds population has actually been infected. That's 780m. Deaths; 1m. That's an infection fatality rate of 0.13%. That actually is less than Flu.

Some other news; immorality has not yet been achieved. People who die aged 85 or so have had a life in excess of average expectancy.

There are many other infectious diseases out there that we do not case count on daily and we certainly don't consider locking the country down for. So let's stop the case counting, treat the people who get sick and get back to normal. Lockdowns are far more damaging for physical and mental health, the welfare of old people in particular and the general economic functioning of the state.

Some interpretation of facts and data would go a long way and get the sensationalist profile hungry virologists off the TV - they are needlessly terrifying the population. Dan O'Brien in the Indo yesterday was spot on.

PS I am not against social distancing, masks, hand washing or any of that. Let's all do that if it makes it better.

dalyboy

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Much appreciated. Good watch - and the more facts you have when out and about converting the lemmings the better.

I’ve started mentioning herd immunity too but you really have to dance delicately around that one. Gives many the vapours.

I was until recently keeping my opinions mostly to myself in real life. It’s been good for the head to voice them out loud.

And there are many more people with similar opinions than I thought - but reluctant to share them with you until they know how they will be received.

Frustrating how slowly the tide is turning, though I think it’s picking up momentum?

The phrase “herd immunity” emits the equivalent to dirty words ever since B Johnson and Trump lauded its validity back in April. (This could have been by design to shut down sensible debate early on)

The phrase should be reworded to help qualm hysterical peoples responses.
Some examples of rephrasing it

(1) the sensible strategy
(2) the merciful immunity strategy
(3) the forwards cure solution
Etc etc

Rrrrrr2

Supercell wrote: »

I'm getting the Flu vaccination next week as i'm in one of the risk groups, its in Bray which is in Wicklow but very close to me here (Loughlinstown, Dublin), should I bring a written confirmation of the appointment with me in case stopped by the Gardai?, I'm assuming crossing the county border is ok for medical reasons like this?

Jesus H Christ it's disturbing how willing some are to bend over and take this rubbish- big bloody deal- your OWN business. If they ask just tell them. Bringing letters detailing private health information to keep the Stazi "happy" is troubling. It lays a very dangerous precedent. Going forward who's to stay it might not become mandatory to offer travel explanations at will?

lawred2

Zebra3 wrote: »

Really?

Borrowing money to pay for short-term living that will have to be paid back is zero cost?

The state is borrowing vast sums of money to pay dole money.

This is not the same as borrowing to pay for capital investments like a new hospital or metro system.

It's the personal equivalent of borrowing for your wedding or a holiday as opposed to borrowing for a home or to start up a business.

what borrowed money is used for is an irrelevance to the cost of the money..

The ECB is lending to EuroZone governments during this pandemic at 0%. That is the borrowed money comes at no cost.

It's not that difficult a concept.

Sure borrowing for current spending is the single worst thing to use borrowed money for but this is a once in a century pandemic.. some times you just have to do what you have to do.

You can hand wring all you like... but trying to draw parallels between you paying for your wedding and the state paying for its citizens welfare during these times is puerile.

lawred2

facehugger99 wrote: »

Nothing - they are a frightening concept and anyone with a shred of intelligence should be deeply concerned they are even being discussed.

Maybe you're fine with saddling our children and grandchildren with €10's or even €100's of billions of euros of debt but let's hope more people don't have as selfish an outlook.


Nobody invests in a 100-year bond other than those deeply pessimistic about our future growth. The fact they are even being considered is extremely worrying.

Still never mind, lads like yourself would be happy to borrow and spend until the whole economy crashes and burns around us - **** the sustainability of it.

Heard all the same wailing during the bank bailouts... these things get worked out and at any given time; a state will have a myriad of obligations and bonds being accrued.. Your grandchildren won't give a toss.

lawred2

acequion wrote: »

That is a very apt summary of the situation describing it perfectly.

I read somewhere that Ireland is the 3rd biggest nanny state in Europe after England and Finland. Must be vying for first place with the way they've handled this! People will say that some of us are exaggerating with talk of a police state and maybe so. But there is no doubt whatsoever that there is a love affair with autocracy in Ireland and people power is weak. I was very uneasy at the start that they wouldn't stop at flattening the curve, that autocrats and power /ego trippers like people in Govt and NPHET would latch onto this and turn it into a major deal. And I was right to be concerned. Seven months on we have the harshest restrictions in Europe, the most hysterical media propaganda and no end in sight. And anyone that says that is an exaggeration is either in denial or has a vested interest in this.

So I'm praying like holy fcuk for a vaccine if we are ever to get our freedoms back! :eek:

How is that measured?