Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Multipass

Dionaibh wrote: »

I read it, and the fact that it's Forbes, who specialise in doom and gloom, means it should be taken with a pinch of salt. Nothing in the article about the Russian vaccine, which Russian scientists believe will protect people for two years, and nothing about the Chinese vaccine.

For every doom article one can find a positive article: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-vaccine-czar-says-the-first-vaccine-should-be-submitted-for-emergency-authorization-around-thanksgiving-2020-10-08

“My expectation is really something between 80% and 90% efficacy”

"... my expectation is really something between 80% and 90% efficacy. I would be very negatively surprised if it was closer to 50%. Everything we see, including the recent data by Lilly LLY, +3.04% and Regeneron REGN, +1.38%, with monoclonal antibody transfer, suggested robust efficacy can be achieved."

The author of the Forbes article was a professor at Harvard Medical school and Harvard school of Public Health.
The opinion in the article you posted is that of a former board member of one of the drug companies developing a vaccine.
Hmm.

LessOutragePlz

lawred2 wrote: »

How is that measured?

It's measured by calculating the amount of nappies per capita that are used as result of the people sh1tting themselves due to the covid hysteria & panic. Which the Irish government and media are doing a fantastic job of peddling on a daily basis!

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Either are masks when there's widespread misuse by almost everybody. They should not be mandated outside care environments and public transport. If you believe your responsible enough to take the proper precautions with one well then wear it if you so wish.

The maskers were quick enough to point out about a young doctor dying from covid a while back I didn't see any of them now acknowledge she died from a lethal dose from not using her mask properly, didn't change it in weeks. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/doctor-coronavirus-dead-adeline-fagan-new-york-masks-b865309.html

Yawn!

Masks are proven to work, go anyway spreading anti mask rubbish. Setup a Facebook page instead to promote your hoax.

Visors should not be considered adequate though.

walus

lawred2 wrote: »

what borrowed money is used for is an irrelevance to the cost of the money..

The ECB is lending to EuroZone governments during this pandemic at 0%. That is the borrowed money comes at no cost.

It's not that difficult a concept.

Sure borrowing for current spending is the single worst thing to use borrowed money for but this is a once in a century pandemic.. some times you just have to do what you have to do.

You can hand wring all you like... but trying to draw parallels between you paying for your wedding and the state paying for its citizens welfare during these times is puerile.

Sure debt cost nothing today. Can you guarantee though that this "zero cost money" as you describe it is still costing us nothing 5, 10 or 20 years from now. You do understand that interest rates could change any time, right?

Dionaibh

Multipass wrote: »

The author of the Forbes article was a professor at Harvard Medical school and Harvard school of Public Health.
The opinion in the article you posted is that of a former board member of one of the drug companies developing a vaccine.
Hmm.

Who is also heading President Trump's Operation Warp Speed program. You left that bit out.

Professor Neil Ferguson is also a professor. Do you trust him? Can professors be wrong? The man heading the program could be wrong. I accept that.

Dionaibh

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Yawn!

Masks are proven to work, go anyway spreading anti mask rubbish. Setup a Facebook page instead to promote your hoax.

Visors should not be considered adequate though.

Proven to work so much that the number of cases in Spain and France, with mandatory masks everywhere, is going through the roof.

3xh

So let me get this straight;

All summer, the focus of NPHET and the government was to reopen schools. They did it, dismissing all other industries, said schools/children aren’t the main driver, called it a success (the re-opening)

Now we have their plan for mid-term that says;
Close for an extra week to suppress the numbers. But not now. It’s fine for the moment. But children aren’t the main spreaders. Any tracing we’ve done around school children testing positive suggests those positives are occurring outside the school setting. But until then (the break for mid-term), mask up secondary school children and keep schools open.

Is the pro versus anti numbers still really the same after such utterings today?! Is there no educated, or otherwise, parent out there who believed the daily briefings from NPHET/the media to date but has now seen just how much of a wing and prayer these people work off?

There is clearly no scientific basis for today’s mid term plan. There simply cannot be. You cannot say you ‘understand’ this plan and think it’s correct.

facehugger99

Don't Chute! wrote: »

My wife rang me there to tell me the kids have been given an extra week for the midterm. My guess is they won’t be going back. The oul teachers must be loving this.

Considering the dozens of teachers who have died from Covid since the reckless decision to reopen schools. it's more than they deserve.

lawred2

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's measured by calculating the amount of nappies per capita that are used as result of the people sh1tting themselves due to the covid hysteria & panic. Which the Irish government and media are doing a fantastic job of peddling on a daily basis!

Science

3xh

lawred2 wrote: »

what borrowed money is used for is an irrelevance to the cost of the money..

The ECB is lending to EuroZone governments during this pandemic at 0%. That is the borrowed money comes at no cost.

It's not that difficult a concept.

Sure borrowing for current spending is the single worst thing to use borrowed money for but this is a once in a century pandemic.. some times you just have to do what you have to do.

You can hand wring all you like... but trying to draw parallels between you paying for your wedding and the state paying for its citizens welfare during these times is puerile.

The money may be ‘free’ in the sense of interest rates but are you aware of printing money and the negative effects of inflation on your money from all that printing when you say, ‘that borrowed money comes at no cost’?

This money is not free.

xhomelezz

lawred2 wrote: »

Science

Only nappies in this thread

Don't Chute!

Don't Chute! wrote: »

We had booked a couple of nights in Mount Juliet for my parents as a birthday present for my mam. Had to cancel. Meanwhile I see on Facebook my wife’s best friend over in Sweden is currently on a long weekend spa break in Gothenburg with her sisters. Lucky them eh? My mates in Sweden cannot believe how seriously we’re taking this thing. They’re laughing at us.

Sweden are a disgrace of a country how they are handling this and your mates in Sweden sound like complete idiots.

We are very very lucky not to be living their and the governments refusal to take the virus seriously. I think the country should be boycotted as a place to visit also.

lawred2

walus wrote: »

Sure debt cost nothing today. Can you guarantee though that this "zero cost money" as you describe it is still costing us nothing 5, 10 or 20 years from now. You do understand that interest rates could change any time, right?

The money that is borrowed now from the ECB is at zero cost.

If you borrow more in twenty years time for something else then yes that might be at a different interest rate.

But the tranches borrowed from the ECB now has a fixed cost. It doesn't change with the rates of the day. These aren't variable rate borrowings.

lawred2

3xh wrote: »

The money may be ‘free’ in the sense of interest rates but are you aware of printing money and the negative effects of inflation on your money from all that printing when you say, ‘that borrowed money comes at no cost’?

This money is not free.

Well we're seeing economic contraction almost everywhere with covid so I don't know where you expect inflation to come from?

3xh

lawred2 wrote: »

Well we're seeing economic contraction almost everywhere with covid so I don't know where you expect inflation to come from?

Borrow away, so.....

At least we know you won’t be complaining here when it all bites.

lawred2

3xh wrote: »

Borrow away, so.....

At least we know you won’t be complaining here when it all bites.

I'm not a government.

Don't Chute!

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Sweden are a disgrace of a country how they are handling this and your mates in Sweden sound like complete idiots.

We are very very lucky not to be living their and the governments refusal to take the virus seriously. I think the country should be boycotted as a place to visit also.

Don’t talk ****. You know nothing about Sweden. My mates are not idiots, they may not have makey uppy “PHDs” like you have but they ain’t idiots.
As for boycotting? Luckily nobody and I mean NOBODY listens to you.

Thierry12

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Don’t talk ****. You know nothing about Sweden. My mates are not idiots, they may not have makey uppy “PHDs” like you have but they ain’t idiots.
As for boycotting? Luckily nobody and I mean NOBODY listens to you.

Put him on ignore

He's a troll

funnydoggy

To be fair Sweden looks like a beautiful country

3xh

lawred2 wrote: »

I'm not a government.

Yeah, well done. Thanks for clarifying.

Fancy addressing the obvious point?

walus

walus wrote: »

Sure debt cost nothing today. Can you guarantee though that this "zero cost money" as you describe it is still costing us nothing 5, 10 or 20 years from now. You do understand that interest rates could change any time, right?

Not for government debt as far as I’m aware, it’s locked in at the rate borrowed at.

snowcat

Dionaibh wrote: »

Proven to work so much that the number of cases in Spain and France, with mandatory masks everywhere, is going through the roof.

N95 masks combined with googles work well when worn correctly and handled correctly. The cloth masks may be exacerbating the situation. An infected person coughing into a cloth covering and then continuing to breath through it spreading virus everywhere cannot be good.

Zebra3

lawred2 wrote: »

what borrowed money is used for is an irrelevance to the cost of the money..

The ECB is lending to EuroZone governments during this pandemic at 0%. That is the borrowed money comes at no cost.

It's not that difficult a concept.

Sure borrowing for current spending is the single worst thing to use borrowed money for but this is a once in a century pandemic.. some times you just have to do what you have to do.

You can hand wring all you like... but trying to draw parallels between you paying for your wedding and the state paying for its citizens welfare during these times is puerile.

It is a very difficult concept for you, it seems.

Money borrowed at 0% has to be repaid.

The current plan is for future generations to pay it back.

The money we are borrowing is being pissed up a wall.
Like borrowing money to go to Vegas for a weekend.

There is no return on this money so future generations will be repaying this with absolutely nothing to show for it. This is where the cost is!

Zero cost and 0% interest rates are two different things though it's not hard to see why people would like to use the former to con the public into thinking there's a magic money tree and this mindless, endless borrowing is an acceptable way to run the country.

Dionaibh

Dionaibh wrote: »

Proven to work so much that the number of cases in Spain and France, with mandatory masks everywhere, is going through the roof.

Imagine where it would be without them, the virus is spreading in places people are not wearing them.

lawred2

Zebra3 wrote: »

It is a very difficult concept for you, it seems.

Money borrowed at 0% has to be repaid.

The current plan is for future generations to pay it back.

The money we are borrowing is being pissed up a wall.
Like borrowing money to go to Vegas for a weekend.

There is no return on this money so future generations will be repaying this with absolutely nothing to show for it. This is where the cost is!

Zero cost and 0% interest rates are two different things though it's not hard to see why people would like to use the former to con the public into thinking there's a magic money tree and this mindless, endless borrowing is an acceptable way to run the country.

pissed up a wall?

business and unemployment supports is actually where the majority of it is going.

would you prefer mass evictions, even more rampant homelessness and even more shuttered businesses everywhere?

you'll have little left as an economy to pay those future taxes to cover those running expenses you think very little of. Scorched earth stuff. How do you think "future generations" will like that? Given your genuine heart felt concern for them like..

this thread is a basketcase

yawhat?

Zebra3 wrote: »

It is a very difficult concept for you, it seems.

Money borrowed at 0% has to be repaid.

The current plan is for future generations to pay it back.

The money we are borrowing is being pissed up a wall.
Like borrowing money to go to Vegas for a weekend.

There is no return on this money so future generations will be repaying this with absolutely nothing to show for it. This is where the cost is!

Zero cost and 0% interest rates are two different things though it's not hard to see why people would like to use the former to con the public into thinking there's a magic money tree and this mindless, endless borrowing is an acceptable way to run the country.

It’s not quite that simple though is it?

What’s the cost of not borrowing now, and letting the economic impacts of Covid play out without financial intervention from the state?

The cost of borrowing money is the interest you have to pay. Repaying capital is not a cost, so zero cost and 0% interest are the same. There is also the bonus of future inflation eroding the value of the capital repayments due.

I’m not advocating a free for all, but it makes way more sense to borrow than not to borrow.

lawred2

3xh wrote: »

Yeah, well done. Thanks for clarifying.

Fancy addressing the obvious point?

the one about government borrowing being akin to you paying for a wedding?

nah you're alright

Zebra3

lawred2 wrote: »

pissed up a wall?

business and unemployment supports is actually where the majority of it is going.

would you prefer mass evictions, even more rampant homelessness and even more shuttered businesses everywhere?

you'll have little left as an economy to pay those future taxes to cover those running expenses you think very little of. Scorched earth stuff.

this thread is a basketcase

The money is being borrowed because the government hasn't a clue what it's doing.

It has no plan for the new reality.

Just borrowing money and throwing it about.

So yes, it is pissing it away.

One could argue differently if we were on a path to economic recovery, but the government's main "strategy" is the same as in March. Hoping it all disappears, naturally or through a vaccine.

The state cannot just continue to endlessly throw money at the problem, yet here we are....

Zebra3

yawhat? wrote: »

It’s not quite that simple though is it?

What’s the cost of not borrowing now, and letting the economic impacts of Covid play out without financial intervention from the state?

The cost of borrowing money is the interest you have to pay. Repaying capital is not a cost, so zero cost and 0% interest are the same. There is also the bonus of future inflation eroding the value of the capital repayments due.

I’m not advocating a free for all, but it makes way more sense to borrow than not to borrow.

How long do we keep borrowing for?

weldoninhio

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Jesus H Christ it's disturbing how willing some are to bend over and take this rubbish- big bloody deal- your OWN business. If they ask just tell them. Bringing letters detailing private health information to keep the Stazi "happy" is troubling. It lays a very dangerous precedent. Going forward who's to stay it might not become mandatory to offer travel explanations at will?

People in Ireland used to look back and say “How did the Catholic Church have such a stranglehold on the country”? In the not too distant future people will look back and say “How did Covid have such a stranglehold on society”?

People will study the fear of a mild disease, the propaganda, the fear of ostracisation by speaking out about the propaganda. It’s like one big social experiment, and the zealots will not come out of it looking good.