Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Dionaibh

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I genuinely think things are going to come to a head economically in the new year. If they yo yo in and out of lockdowns the costs are going to be (even more) crippling and it’s obvious from what is being said our borrowing capacity is far from secure going forward.
We’re still very much in the fools paradise territory (has the PUP been still cut to €300?)

I actually don't know how this can ever end because of social media. It has, despite hardly anyone bothering with it statistically, massive influence on society for some reason. Social media will dictate, to a large degree, what happens in the future.

JRant

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I genuinely think things are going to come to a head economically in the new year. If they yo yo in and out of lockdowns the costs are going to be (even more) crippling and it’s obvious from what is being said our borrowing capacity is far from secure going forward.
We’re still very much in the fools paradise territory (has the PUP been still cut to €300?)

We are already in cloud coukoo land if you ask me. A deficit of 21 billion already this year and that's before we get shutdown for the next 6 weeks on Monday. It took the entire celtic tiger to rack up a bill of 60 billion and we could be very well at half that figure after 9 months. If that doesn't scare the shīte out of people then there really is no hope for this place.

hynesie08

JRant wrote: »

We are already in cloud coukoo land if you ask me. A deficit of 21 billion already this year and that's before we get shutdown for the next 6 weeks on Monday. It took the entire celtic tiger to rack up a bill of 60 billion and we could be very well at half that figure after 9 months. If that doesn't scare the shīte out of people then there really is no hope for this place.

But it's free money apparently.........

Rrrrrr2

Dionaibh wrote: »

I actually don't know how this can ever end because of social media. It has, despite hardly anyone bothering with it statistically, massive influence on society for some reason. Social media will dictate, to a large degree, what happens in the future.

Yes I had to log off social media I couldn’t take the idiocy anymore. Vast swathes of the Irish population are devoid of critical thinking - even the supposedly “educated”. Slam on the panic button regardless...and as for proportionality, forget about it

Some_Person

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

We could be fully open internally under such a strategy just no ports or airports.

What an idiotic statement, these lockdown fanatics want our lives destroyed forever for something that the majority have at least a 94% chance of surviving.

Even IF you did that, cases will come back the second that people come through an airport again, case numbers are irrelevant.

Everytime you open up again it's back to square one, lockdowns are catastrophic for the economy and mental health.

douglashyde

Reading this from a small business - it really got to me in the 'feels'

Of 8,500 customers they've had since reopening, not one case traced back to them. 25 staff down to 9. Little financial support despite record state spending; not to grow our Irish economy, but to keep it alive.

In March when we thought we had a killer virus with 3-4% death rate; our glorious elected civil servants should have been preparing the country.

Now we have a mid range virus, a factor 8X less deathly - likely more. Impacting those who absolutely can be protected and the media peddling outlier cases with odds akin to that of dying in a plane crash. Daily case numbers make grim reading, but low hospitalisations and ICU loading.

People have dug their trenches about how they feel about societies approach; some since March. Ignorance knows no bounds, even in the face of indisputable facts.

IMO Wear a mask, distance, wash your hands and that malarky. But it's time to put the living back into life or else we'll be paying for it in many ways for a long time.

Real Donald Trump

growleaves wrote: »

Link

The fake news didn't report much on this.

Wanderer78

douglashyde wrote:

People have dug their trenches about how they feel about societies approach; some since March. Ignorance knows no bounds, even in the face of indisputable facts.

....the facts of, we re running out of capacity in our health system, in order of being able to deal with this!

Gammyeye

Will we be moving to level 5 before the three weeks?

snowcat

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....the facts of, we re running out of capacity in our health system, in order of being able to deal with this!

Our health system ran out of capacity many years ago. The trolley count is the same as it has been 10 years ago.

walus

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'd go one step further, enforced rectal temperature checks....... Anyone with a fever over 103, take them out the back and shoot them.....

That would be a massive waste. Put them in labour camps first, pharmaceuticals will need cheap/free labour after all to produce all this vaccines. Shoot only those who are too weak to work or to lazy to be bothered. You could easily find camp kapo candidates on this forum. I think ventures like this had been done before, very successfully. Just look it up: 1939-1945.

KindOfIrish

Dionaibh wrote: »

I actually don't know how this can ever end because of social media. It has, despite hardly anyone bothering with it statistically, massive influence on society for some reason. Social media will dictate, to a large degree, what happens in the future.

Social media will have an influence as long as money available. When we run out of money, people will pay no attention to these silly things.

KindOfIrish

Gammyeye wrote: »

Will we be moving to level 5 before the three weeks?

I hope so. We won't get our freedom back before the economy and society are fully destroyed.

douglashyde

douglashyde wrote: »

Reading this from a small business - it really got to me in the 'feels'

Of 8,500 customers they've had since reopening, not one case traced back to them. 25 staff down to 9. Little financial support despite record state spending; not to grow our Irish economy, but to keep it alive.

In March when we thought we had a killer virus with 3-4% death rate; our glorious elected civil servants should have been preparing the country.

Now we have a mid range virus, a factor 8X less deathly - likely more. Impacting those who absolutely can be protected and the media peddling outlier cases with odds akin to that of dying in a plane crash. Daily case numbers make grim reading, but low hospitalisations and ICU loading.

People have dug their trenches about how they feel about societies approach; some since March. Ignorance knows no bounds, even in the face of indisputable facts.

IMO Wear a mask, distance, wash your hands and that malarky. But it's time to put the living back into life or else we'll be paying for it in many ways for a long time.

This major down playing of the seriousness of the virus and the potential for our hospitals to get over run is dangerous game. It’s bordering on conspiracy theory at this stage. Worst thing is if some easily influenced people read it it might lull them into a false sense of security. We all need to be very very afraid of this virus not this “ah sure it won’t impact me” or “it’s only a flu” bull.

Even those it doesn’t make very sick could be in for a lifetime of problems, there is large numbers of people now showing up with long term problems after having it but the open up merchants are totally ignoring this. Encouraging peope to act as normal, some mad mad people even suggesting we should allow it to spread among the people with zero thought for the long term health consequences (leaving aside the immediate risk from the virus itself).

People need to forget this idea of “living life” any way normally until we have a vaccine for this or implement a covid zero properly which would enable us to open up internally but ban all travel into and out of the country bar absolutely essential travel which would have strict isolation and testing.

drunkmonkey

Gammyeye wrote: »

Will we be moving to level 5 before the three weeks?

We'll be locked down by next weekend going by the independent this morning. NPHET will probably recommend on Thursday to do so.

Sick to the teeth of it, I'm in one of the county's with the lowest incident rate and 0 outbreaks in schools, yet you've Dublin with outbreaks in 20% of schools.
The Government had a 5 level plan which they've totally scrapped and just put everyone in the same basket case as Dublin. Completely unfair, MM hadn't the balls to lockdown Cork exactly the same with Leo in his failure to lock down Dublin. We're been controlled by a shower of yellow bellies afraid to do the right thing by country's they won't be relying on to get re-elected.

Here's the problem, some places should be experimenting with going back fully to normal while staying within their country bounds and others should be on level 5.

3xh

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

there is large numbers of people now showing up with long term problems after having it

The only place these people are showing up is Montrose for the weekly Covid show about long-Covid.

You could also say the conspiracy here is on the government’s and NPHET’s side to overplay the significance of the figures. The changing of the agenda from flattening the curve to getting it down to zero to having the true meaning of hospitalisation and death numbers dragged out of them at an oireachtas hearing. By a TD, can I add.

Tredstone

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

This major down playing of the seriousness of the virus and the potential for our hospitals to get over run is dangerous game. It’s bordering on conspiracy theory at this stage. Worst thing is if some easily influenced people read it it might lull them into a false sense of security. We all need to be very very afraid of this virus not this “ah sure it won’t impact me” or “it’s only a flu” bull.

Even those it doesn’t make very sick could be in for a lifetime of problems, there is large numbers of people now showing up with long term problems after having it but the open up merchants are totally ignoring this. Encouraging peope to act as normal, some mad mad people even suggesting we should allow it to spread among the people with zero though for the long term health consequences (leaving aside the immediate risk from the virus itself).

People need to forget this idea of “living life” any way normally until we have a vaccine for this or implement a covid zero properly which would enable us to open up internally but ban all travel into and out of the country bar absolutely essential travel which would have strict isolation and testing.

Covid 0 is one of those ideas that doesn't work in practice but may work in theory

Ginger n Lemon

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

This major down playing of the seriousness of the virus and the potential for our hospitals to get over run is dangerous game. It’s bordering on conspiracy theory at this stage. Worst thing is if some easily influenced people read it it might lull them into a false sense of security. We all need to be very very afraid of this virus not this “ah sure it won’t impact me” or “it’s only a flu” bull.

Even those it doesn’t make very sick could be in for a lifetime of problems, there is large numbers of people now showing up with long term problems after having it but the open up merchants are totally ignoring this. Encouraging peope to act as normal, some mad mad people even suggesting we should allow it to spread among the people with zero thought for the long term health consequences (leaving aside the immediate risk from the virus itself).

People need to forget this idea of “living life” any way normally until we have a vaccine for this or implement a covid zero properly which would enable us to open up internally but ban all travel into and out of the country bar absolutely essential travel which would have strict isolation and testing.

Noxx, I see you are full of energy this Sunday.

Could you quantify "large numbers" please for us?

snowcat

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

This major down playing of the seriousness of the virus and the potential for our hospitals to get over run is dangerous game. It’s bordering on conspiracy theory at this stage. Worst thing is if some easily influenced people read it it might lull them into a false sense of security. We all need to be very very afraid of this virus not this “ah sure it won’t impact me” or “it’s only a flu” bull.

Even those it doesn’t make very sick could be in for a lifetime of problems, there is large numbers of people now showing up with long term problems after having it but the open up merchants are totally ignoring this. Encouraging peope to act as normal, some mad mad people even suggesting we should allow it to spread among the people with zero thought for the long term health consequences (leaving aside the immediate risk from the virus itself).

People need to forget this idea of “living life” any way normally until we have a vaccine for this or implement a covid zero properly which would enable us to open up internally but ban all travel into and out of the country bar absolutely essential travel which would have strict isolation and testing.

Well we may never have a vaccine and zero Covid is not possible. The high virus figures may be a blessing in disguise as this is effectively our vaccine at the moment. Again we will be fine even with 2k 3k cases a day as long as we shield the vulnerable and we may need the private hospitals again. Over 70% of yesterdays cases were under 45. They will be absolutely fine and are now vaccinated adding to the 400k people recovered and immune.

Tredstone

snowcat wrote: »

Well we may never have a vaccine and zero Covid is not possible. The high virus figures may be a blessing in disguise as this is effectively our vaccine at the moment. Again we will be fine even with 2k 3k cases a day as long as we shield the vulnerable and we may need the private hospitals again. Over 70% of yesterdays cases were under 45. They will be absolutely fine and are now vaccinated adding to the 400k people recovered and immune.

Is this fact?

That people are recovered and immune

KindOfIrish

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

This major down playing of the seriousness of the virus and the potential for our hospitals to get over run is dangerous game. It’s bordering on conspiracy theory at this stage. Worst thing is if some easily influenced people read it it might lull them into a false sense of security. We all need to be very very afraid of this virus not this “ah sure it won’t impact me” or “it’s only a flu” bull.

Even those it doesn’t make very sick could be in for a lifetime of problems, there is large numbers of people now showing up with long term problems after having it but the open up merchants are totally ignoring this. Encouraging peope to act as normal, some mad mad people even suggesting we should allow it to spread among the people with zero thought for the long term health consequences (leaving aside the immediate risk from the virus itself).

People need to forget this idea of “living life” any way normally until we have a vaccine for this or implement a covid zero properly which would enable us to open up internally but ban all travel into and out of the country bar absolutely essential travel which would have strict isolation and testing.

I hope you are paid double for Sunday morning posts. You will need that money pretty soon!

dalyboy

Tredstone wrote: »

Is this fact?

That people are recovered and immune

Yes. There has been a number of reports of Reinfection of covid twice however what was not reported on these cases is that fragments of the patients FIRST infection was still present in their system.

KindOfIrish

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I hope you are paid double for Sunday morning posts. You will need that money pretty soon!

Care to elaborate?

paw patrol

Tredstone wrote: »

Is this fact?

That people are recovered and immune

if you think about it logically - given the number of cases there has been , there would be a large number of reinfections by now if there wasn't some immunity. The media have only reported a handful of cases worldwide - these are (given the numbers) exceptional cases.

now the science currently indicates that antibody immunity is may only be temporary. The media love to highlight this.
But the mainstream media haven't reported (dunno why? draw your own conclusion) that the examination of T-Cells is showing that T-Cells adapt to Covid19. That is looking promising but admittedly the jury is out

in laymans/simple terms
Antibodies stop you getting the sickness
But when you get sick it's your T-Cells kick the virus's ass.

So it appears with regard to covid19 - that T-Cells are where the party is at. This seems to be the case with SARS and MERS

this article is easy to read for non-science people like me

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/201833/cell-immunity-what-does-help-protect/

acequion

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We'll be locked down by next weekend going by the independent this morning. NPHET will probably recommend on Thursday to do so.

Sick to the teeth of it, I'm in one of the county's with the lowest incident rate and 0 outbreaks in schools, yet you've Dublin with outbreaks in 20% of schools.
The Government had a 5 level plan which they've totally scrapped and just put everyone in the same basket case as Dublin. Completely unfair, MM hadn't the balls to lockdown Cork exactly the same with Leo in his failure to lock down Dublin. We're been controlled by a shower of yellow bellies afraid to do the right thing by country's they won't be relying on to get re-elected.

Here's the problem, some places should be experimenting with going back fully to normal while staying within their country bounds and others should be on level 5.

Thanks for posting this drunkmonkey. May I ask where you got it please?

And you're not the only one utterly and totally sick to the teeth of it! :mad: The hysteria and mishandling is criminal at this stage and they've lost the cooperation of a huge chunk of the people which is why the numbers are rising. Without public buy in you're pissing against the wind!

ElektroToad

I see Irish Independent website is leading with headlines suggesting we need another "short, hard lockdown".

I find it hard to reconcile this with the fact that the WHO is consistently advocating national governments not to go into lockdown, but take the steps necessary to protect those who are most vulnerable.

The government and the HSE had over 7 months to get their house in order. Even mentioning another lockdown is absolutely unacceptable imo. That ship has sailed a long time ago...

polesheep

Thierry12 wrote: »

When you think about it

Surely Government have shills being paid to do this, be it on boards, facebook, twitter, reddit, instagram?

Read that in Poland they are paying influencers handsomely to spread the word.

Nox

Must be making a mint, double jobbing as engineering team lead as well

I've noticed a few posters on here who never post at the weekend.

MadYaker

What do people think is going to happen over the next month or so?

If the current trend continues the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed but a full national lockdown is clearly not something the government want to do. We're between a rock and a hard place with no easy option. I think the gov will try and put off the level 5 lockdown for another week or two and then they will decide they have no choice when ICU is full. Or else they'll go back to the private hospitals cap in hand like they did last time around.

polesheep

MadYaker wrote: »

What do people think is going to happen over the next month or so?

If the current trend continues the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed but a full national lockdown is clearly not something the government want to do. We're between a rock and a hard place with no easy option. I think the gov will try and put off the level 5 lockdown for another week or two and then they will decide they have no choice when ICU is full. Or else they'll go back to the private hospitals cap in hand like they did last time around.

Cap in hand.

Dionaibh

MadYaker wrote: »

What do people think is going to happen over the next month or so?

If the current trend continues the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed but a full national lockdown is clearly not something the government want to do. We're between a rock and a hard place with no easy option. I think the gov will try and put off the level 5 lockdown for another week or two and then they will decide they have no choice when ICU is full. Or else they'll go back to the private hospitals cap in hand like they did last time around.

Hospitals have been overwhelmed in the past and nothing was done.