Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks...... and to everyone else who said the same.
I just felt sick to my stomach earlier. I will be going to my daughter, come hell or high water, every week between now and the end of these restrictions.... and no Garda checkpoint is going to make me turn back.

Good on you, and all the best to your daughter. Must be incredibly hard for her with all this nonsense going on.

Idbatterim

bucketybuck wrote: »

Problem being that stop/start technology works for engines, it doesn't work for businesses.

I believe the pattern will be stop - start - stop...

Speaking in general terms, the level of ignorance in this country about economics is quite staggering, its frightening actually.

what can we expect here? look at who runs for the Dail, I wouldnt trust the fools to run a corner shop!

Idbatterim

Deleted User wrote: »

That's fairly optimistic IMO. I had hoped differently, but 7 months of observation and experience have me now convinced that this stop/start will roll on until we have a vaccine widely available.

So I would guess the current plan is...

Hope to get those daily case numbers down in the next 6 weeks to about half of what they are now...open up enough industries in early December to be able to carve out some kind of Christmas for the kids/political gain...heighten restrictions once again in the first half of January.

Also, in case anyone hasn't copped yet, Bank Holiday weekends are a big 'nope'. I expect the 'lockdown/open' up pattern to follow this trend next year once again.

The longer this goes on, the more I honestly believe that this is all fúcked until 2022. Remember 'Phase 4' and the plan for it? Ah, the good aul days.

totally agree with your timelines, Id snap your hand off for a 2021 return to normality, even this time next year. Wouldnt be surprised if its 2022 or 2023. Anyone thinking anything else on the timelines at this stage, is deluded!

dalyboy

NIMAN wrote: »

Under this new lockdown, will I be able to cross the border to visit my widowed 80yr old mother who has dementia?
It's a 20km drive to get to the border, perhaps they will fine me for driving so far from home?

It's going to be a balls..

Without question go see your mother.
If you get stopped by Gardaí be firm but clear that you are seeing your mother and your journey is on family/humanitarian grounds .
If you get fined you go to court.
NO judge in Ireland will rule that you honour the outrageous fine.

I would happily donate the equivalent of the fine to charity just to see the smug smirks wiped of the arrogant posters faces as they get turned around and handrd a ticket because they think they can ignore the 5km rule for any old nonsense reason (obviously not referring to those actually visiting relatives who need care/shopping etc but really actually going to them not a bag in the car to pretend).

The people planning to ignore restrictions and so proud to be ignoring them have put a lot of people out of work today and as they continue to ignore them they keep them out of work. Absolutely despicable.

This lockdown was absolutely necessary to stop this dangerous virus spreading, spread caused by a proportion of the population who are ignorant arrogant idiots.

Any business found breaking level 5 should also be shut down permanently, their right to trade torn up.

dalyboy

Deleted User wrote: »

They have published what is deemed essential retail. This really stood out to me. So any shop could stick in a tea machine and open as normal.

outlets selling food or beverages on a takeaway basis, or newspapers, whether on a retail or wholesale basis and whether in a non-specialised or specialised outlet.

Every hairdressers , barbers , menswear and toy shop in Ireland should go buy a coffee machine tomorrow (while they can)
Good on them if they do.

Captain_Crash

charlie14 wrote: »

So when is a lockdown not a lockdown ?
When it`s in Sweden.?

.

I know some think differently, but the swedes always had some measures in place, just nothing like the measures the rest of Europe did! But to answer your question, what we had in summer wasn’t a lockdown, it was just restrictions.... what we have now, is lockdown and from wed.... it’s a worse lockdown! The swedes havnt proposed what we have

Multipass

dalyboy wrote: »

Every hairdressers , barbers , menswear and toy shop in Ireland should go buy a coffee machine tomorrow (while they can)
Good on them if they do.

I would love to see this happen. I’d buy their coffee too.

FrogmanBegins

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I would happily donate the equivalent of the fine to charity just to see the smug smirks wiped of the arrogant posters faces as they get turned around and handrd a ticket because they think they can ignore the 5km rule for any old nonsense reason (obviously not referring to those actually visiting relatives who need care/shopping etc but really actually going to them not a bag in the car to pretend).

The people planning to ignore restrictions and so proud to be ignoring them have put a lot of people out of work today and as they continue to ignore them they keep them out of work. Absolutely despicable.

This lockdown was absolutely necessary to stop this dangerous virus spreading, spread caused by a proportion of the population who are ignorant arrogant idiots.

Any business found breaking level 5 should also be shut down permanently, their right to trade torn up.

Or maybe the simple fact of the matter is trying to stop the spread of a highly contagious disease is similar to King Cnut shouting at the tide to go back. The country can only sustain this for so long. Also I love your last bit, maybe throw them into a reeducation camp for good measure

bucketybuck

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I would happily donate the equivalent of the fine to charity just to see the smug smirks wiped of the arrogant posters faces

Thats funny, I was just thinking the same about certain people who thought their cushy work from home jobs were perfectly secure.

Life comes at you hard sometimes, rarely more so than in a recession.

topper75

Messiah Famous Vaporizer wrote: »

..
This lockdown was absolutely necessary to stop this dangerous virus spreading, spread caused by a proportion of the population who are ignorant arrogant idiots.
...

Oh really? Well then, if I caught that hoor of a bug I'll stay schtum. Don't want to be stigmatised like that. I'll not be going for testing and just carry on. I don't want to be labelled ignorant and arrogant. No contact tracing for me thanks. It'll be my little secret and whoever catches it - it'll be their own lookout.

You don't sound like much of a problem solver. You sound angry and vengeful against people who you've never met. Not good.

hynesie08

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I would happily donate the equivalent of the fine to charity just to see the smug smirks wiped of the arrogant posters faces as they get turned around and handrd a ticket because they think they can ignore the 5km rule for any old nonsense reason (obviously not referring to those actually visiting relatives who need care/shopping etc but really actually going to them not a bag in the car to pretend).

The people planning to ignore restrictions and so proud to be ignoring them have put a lot of people out of work today and as they continue to ignore them they keep them out of work. Absolutely despicable.

This lockdown was absolutely necessary to stop this dangerous virus spreading, spread caused by a proportion of the population who are ignorant arrogant idiots.

Any business found breaking level 5 should also be shut down permanently, their right to trade torn up.

You seem angry? Is it because Michael called your zero covid idea a fantasy? Or cause you finally got the lockdown you've been dreaming of and all it is thousands of people out of work and no actual lockdown?

Hope you don't live more than 5km from your parents nox, be horrible if you ran into a garda having a bad day......... Or would you have him "moved on" if he tries......

Don keebals

[quote=



"The people planning to ignore restrictions and so proud to be ignoring them have put a lot of people out of work today and as they continue to ignore them they keep them out of work. Absolutely despicable.

This lockdown was absolutely necessary to stop this dangerous virus spreading, spread caused by a proportion of the population who are ignorant arrogant idiots."




.............., not really a lockdown half hearted at best , if they are making people go to work in construction , schools etc , also most people on the border will still head north to shop for Christmas with no restrictions on retail.

FrStone

hynesie08 wrote: »

You seem angry? Is it because Michael called your zero covid idea a fantasy? Or cause you finally got the lockdown you've been dreaming of and all it is thousands of people out of work and no actual lockdown?

Hope you don't live more than 5km from your parents nox, be horrible if you ran into a garda having a bad day......... Or would you have him "moved on" if he tries......

I thought he lives with his parents...

Or is it a granny flat next to them?

acequion

I lived abroad for many years and not for the first time really wished tonight that I'd never come back to Ireland. I have zero confidence and at this point zero respect for the country's leaders which quite clearly includes the unelected NPHET. I think this lockdown is utter insanity and an embarrassment. Somebody said they're doing the same in England! So how come my cousin who lives in London is spending her half term on a hotel break in Devon as civilised people do? And the restaurant owner in Paris on the news last night bemoaning early closures, what would he do if he landed in this banana republic!

This is an utterly over the top reaction which is completely disproportionate to the dangers of this virus. I face it every single day in my job as a teacher in a busy secondary school. I'm not afraid of Covid 19, I don't like it, am wary of it but just take the precautions and get on with it. Like they do in more enlightened places. But I am terrified to the pit of my stomach at the wanton destruction of our society, our way of life and our economy and dread when payback comes as it inevitably will.

And I think this Govt is as big a car crash as Brian Cowen and co and we all remember how they ran us over a cliff. And how painful and hard the climb back up.

Idbatterim

great post above, I said it thousands of posts back at the very start of this thread. you literally could not be in a worse country, for a scenario like this! absolutely zero leadership, accountability , responsibility etc. Its a nightmare scenario!

completedit

When are they going to actually come out and say it is not a deadly virus! It can of course cause deaths but a couple of thousand deaths in a year is not the hallmarks of a deadly virus in the way we understood it may be back in February. I get it, we took measures to curb the spread and thus, possibly reduced deaths. I'm not calling for us to do nothing. Sure, a deadly virus, is by definition one that causes deaths. But a deadly virus that would(and this point, has) alter our society for the worst, is not one that picks off people who are on the other side of 80. Is that cold, unemotional and detached? Maybe. It's certainty not palpable fo a lot of people, understandably too, but facts are facts. We expect people to pass away at a certain point. It just is how it is. When the dust is settled on covid, why can't we lock down society for other things? Impending climate catastrophe? Let's lock down to reduce our emissions so we hit the Paris Agreement targets. A bit far-fetched but it just how's how misguided human perception of risk is. One is a relatively mild disease; the other could potentially cause the most negative social outcomes we have ever known.

I wish they would just be honest and open. If they said something like we just don't have the capacity to risk it, we've been caught out, we thought something would materialize and it didn't. This is where we are and the actions are taken with much regret. Honestly, I'd be onside but it's such doublespeak. We go into a level 5 restriction after 8 MONTHS and on the same night, ZERO deaths are announced.

Idbatterim

completedit wrote: »

When are they going to actually come out and say it is not a deadly virus! I wish they would just be honest and open. If they said something like we just don't have the capacity to risk it, I'd be onside but it's such doublespeak. We go into a level 5 restriction after 8 MONTHS and on the same night, ZERO deaths are announced.

you serious? you think they can admit that there were better routes to go down? not a bloody chance, way too far down that rabbit hole! and i dont think there is a chance they change this lockdown open lockdown. This is Ireland! unless another country definitely proves beyond doubt its bull****, then we may follow them after a ton of wasted months, waffling, consulting , getting concensus...

Captain_Crash

Idbatterim wrote: »

great post above, I said it thousands of posts back at the very start of this thread. you literally could not be in a worse country, for a scenario like this! absolutely zero leadership, accountability , responsibility etc. Its a nightmare scenario!

And the worst part is that we’ll have tribunals coming out our holes for years costing us millions, and in the end, no one will be held accountable! No one!

showpony1

This is basically like if in previous years we were posting the number of people who caught the flu/a cold on the news every day and saying you can no longer go outside again and everything must be closed in case you catch it even though you'll be fine in a few days.

PTH2009

Level 3 is the aim level boody 3

Unless they make up a new living with covid plan, L3 is still pretty restrictive

uli84

Captain_Crash wrote: »

And the worst part is that we’ll have tribunals coming out our holes for years costing us millions, and in the end, no one will be held accountable! No one!

That’s it! As we have learnt from cervical cancer check/screening f*ck up

charlie14

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I know some think differently, but the swedes always had some measures in place, just nothing like the measures the rest of Europe did! But to answer your question, what we had in summer wasn’t a lockdown, it was just restrictions.... what we have now, is lockdown and from wed.... it’s a worse lockdown! The swedes havnt proposed what we have

.



I spent the last lockdown listening to people on here describing ours as the worst in the world and being barraged by posters telling me that Sweden had it right on their herd immunity strategy, how they had it right on no lockdown as they would have an economic edge over everyone else, and last but by no means least that Sweden would never use lockdown in any form.
Giesecke traveled the world preaching it.


Johan Nojo the infections disease doctor for the region of Uppsala "It`s more of a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

I have no doubts that the likes of Giesecke and Tegnell will do their utmost to prevent it, but like those e-mails on herd immunity, once the genie is out of the bottle, hell of a job to get it back in.

Zak Flaps

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Reading this pitch fork rubbish the whole time. Do you people not understand how a virus like this works? It’s virtually unstoppable once in the population.
You don’t even understand a vaccine either if you think that’s the panacea for normality

Here's a prime arrogant moron right here....knows it all...
i'm drawing up a petition for all to sign to try to get you into power because you have all the answers...thank you, oh thank you...

Tippex

dalyboy wrote: »

Every hairdressers , barbers , menswear and toy shop in Ireland should go buy a coffee machine tomorrow (while they can)
Good on them if they do.

I know of one bookshop chain that started stocking newspapers (2 weeks ago) in order to get around these restrictions (they only had the papers on sale for one day).
The same chain have handled everything pretty well from a staff perspective apart from the fact that if a customers says they will not wear a mask or not sanitise their hands then it is ok as the staff are not allowed to refuse service.

The_Brood

Captain_Crash wrote: »

And the worst part is that we’ll have tribunals coming out our holes for years costing us millions, and in the end, no one will be held accountable! No one!

This is the one thing that cannot be allowed to happen. The people have to stand up for themselves. If there is confusion over many things now, one thing is clear that these failed politicians who willfully and purposefully are doing this must be held accountable. Mass protests, blockades, whatever it takes - they can not be allowed to get away with this scot free.

retro:electro

It’s also worth nothing that Micheal never said anything about getting to spend Christmas with our families. People are filling in the blanks, projecting and inferring what they want to hear. I believe he said something about having a “reasonable” Christmas but it’s his wish that we enter level 3 on December 1st. Level 3 still has restrictions on visits and county to county travel ban. That doesn’t say much for those who have family members living in other counties. People who think these few weeks will bring the numbers down and save Christmas so we can all party like it’s 2019 are seriously deluded. They’ve no intention of giving us the go ahead to enjoy ourselves. Not that many will pass much heed anyway. People will have long turned their backs on this nonsense by December 25th.

perrito caliente

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s also worth nothing that Micheal never said anything about getting to spend Christmas with our families. People are filling in the blanks, projecting and inferring what they want to hear. I believe he said something about having a “reasonable” Christmas but it’s his wish that we enter level 3 on December 1st. Level 3 still has restrictions on visits and county to county travel ban. That doesn’t say much for those who have family members living in other counties. People who think these few weeks will bring the numbers down and save Christmas so we can all party like it’s 2019 are seriously deluded. They’ve no intention of giving us the go ahead to enjoy ourselves. Not that many will pass much heed anyway. People will have long turned their backs on this nonsense by December 25th.

I'd say people will do whatever the hell they want at Christmas, and rightly so. And I'd say the Government know that too.

MrMusician18

pconn062 wrote: »

I run a business that is deemed unessential according to the government.

I won't be closing, I did the first time but not this time. Can't afford it, simple as.

I doubt you'll be insured should anything happen in or to your business in the period you should be closed.

uli84

6 f*cking weeks, total madness, tens of countries more affected than us and this level of panic and unreasonable restrictions of basic human rights is nowhere else to be seen

dalyboy

perrito caliente wrote: »

I'd say people will do whatever the hell they want at Christmas, and rightly so. And I'd say the Government know that too.

I’m betting December 2nd will be the governments D-day.

At that point we’ll have done the dog & pony show 6 week LOCK DOWN and will be so fed up of dark , cold and rainy p1ssed on days and nights that we will be past breaking point.

It’ll be level 3 no matter what the wishy washy (forever changing at a drop of a hat with zero benchmarks on targets) rules say.

Family and friend get togethers will be happening in each other’s residence and there will be nothing the authorities can do about that. (My guess is Gardaí will also be sick of this sh1t too and won’t be responding to the dwindling numbers of curtain twitching loons who report on the hard working people rightfully enjoying Xmas)

This is what happens when people realise the emperor has no clothes on.

My estimate is after tonight the government and NPHETs nodding along public has dwindled well under 60% and no fake rte poll will tell me otherwise

end of the road

completedit wrote: »

When are they going to actually come out and say it is not a deadly virus! It can of course cause deaths but a couple of thousand deaths in a year is not the hallmarks of a deadly virus in the way we understood it may be back in February. I get it, we took measures to curb the spread and thus, possibly reduced deaths. I'm not calling for us to do nothing. Sure, a deadly virus, is by definition one that causes deaths. But a deadly virus that would(and this point, has) alter our society for the worst, is not one that picks off people who are on the other side of 80. Is that cold, unemotional and detached? Maybe. It's certainty not palpable fo a lot of people, understandably too, but facts are facts. We expect people to pass away at a certain point. It just is how it is. When the dust is settled on covid, why can't we lock down society for other things? Impending climate catastrophe? Let's lock down to reduce our emissions so we hit the Paris Agreement targets. A bit far-fetched but it just how's how misguided human perception of risk is. One is a relatively mild disease; the other could potentially cause the most negative social outcomes we have ever known.

I wish they would just be honest and open. If they said something like we just don't have the capacity to risk it, we've been caught out, we thought something would materialize and it didn't. This is where we are and the actions are taken with much regret. Honestly, I'd be onside but it's such doublespeak. We go into a level 5 restriction after 8 MONTHS and on the same night, ZERO deaths are announced.

uncontroled covid is deadly via the fact that it would overwhelm the hospitals such that they could not function, not to mention the other effects it would cause such as greater economic damage, us being restricted from travel to almost every other country etc.
that is why it is deadly and why we have to suppress it, keeping the death rates as low as we can is just 1 of the many issues that have to be dealt with.
people pass away yes, but as i said before we generally try and prevent it when and where we can, because we can and there is no good reason not to do so, as after all we would all want such to be done for us, which is reasonable.
there are lots of issues around covid and that is why we have to take the approach we are as we have to balance all of the issues as much as we can to keep the country functioning some bit, because trying to prioritize 1 issue would be doomed to failure.
remember as well that there was no ability to reherse for this, all countries had to essentially learn on the job and all of us are an experiment in how to try and deal with this. it's rubbish but it's what it is unfortunately.

end of the road

uli84 wrote: »

6 f*cking weeks, total madness, tens of countries more affected than us and this level of panic and unreasonable restrictions of basic human rights is nowhere else to be seen

nope, some basic luxuries are being restricted.
if you have evidence that human rights are being restricted then you must report that to the UN for their consideration.

uli84

end of the road wrote: »

nope, some basic luxuries are being restricted.
if you have evidence that human rights are being restricted then you must report that to the UN for their consideration.

Waste of time most likely, they will hide behind the “pandemic”

[url] https://www.privacyfoundation.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-lockdown-a-human-rights-perspective.pdf[/url]

Strumms

uli84 wrote: »

6 f*cking weeks, total madness, tens of countries more affected than us and this level of panic and unreasonable restrictions of basic human rights is nowhere else to be seen

In WW2 in London, there were restrictions, about when people could be out and about, their behaviors, things like blackout curtains, curfews, rations etc".

This is a health war, people are dying.

Like in any war, or time of unprecedented difficulty, people are as individuals and as a collective, being expected to do the right thing. People have as a result of the situation we find ourselves in been delegated responsibilities and had to endure restrictions. They need to suck it up, quit their needy, greedy, fûcking asswipe ‘all about me’ whining and behave. DO their part. Not too much for six weeks, in the middle of a deadly pandemic to ask and expect behavior suitable to the situation we find ourselves .

uli84

Strumms wrote: »

In WW2 in London, there were restrictions, about when people could be out and about, their behaviors, things like blackout curtains, curfews, rations etc".

This is a health war, people are dying.

Like in any war, or time of unprecedented difficulty, people are as individuals and as a collective, being expected to do the right thing. People have as a result of the situation we find ourselves in been delegated responsibilities and had to endure restrictions. They need to suck it up, quit their needy, greedy, fûcking asswipe ‘all about me’ whining and behave. DO their part. Not too much for six weeks, in the middle of a deadly pandemic to ask and expect behavior suitable to the situation we find ourselves .

All correct with the exception of deadly

Strumms

uli84 wrote: »

All correct with the exception of deadly

Ehhhh, I think you’ve been smoking a lot of erm, stuff, or missed a lot of school....

Deadly : https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/deadly_1

“Able or likely to kill people”.

Penfailed

acequion wrote: »

Somebody said they're doing the same in England!

On this thread? I must've missed it.

ThunbergsAreGo

Strumms wrote: »

Ehhhh, I think you’ve been smoking a lot of erm, stuff, or missed a lot of school....

Deadly : https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/deadly_1

“Able or likely to kill people”.

So like many many other illnesses or viruses.

Would you call the flu the deadly virus?

Nonoperational

The schadenfreude from both sides of the argument is something to behold. State of what we have become.

zerosugarbuzz

I personally can’t see people’s behaviour changing that much from this week to next week and beyond. Everyone will tweak the rules a little to suit themselves and some will simply ignore the changes. Unfortunately there will be a hell of a lot of businesses shutting permanently between now and Christmas, mud sliding down the hillside eventually covers everyone. Watch out folks.

Idbatterim

Current thought! Stop feeding the RTE troll lads!

3xh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I had hoped differently, but 7 months of observation and experience have me now convinced that this stop/start will roll on until we have a vaccine widely available.

So I would guess the current plan is...

Hope to get those daily case numbers down in the next 6 weeks to about half of what they are now...open up enough industries in early December to be able to carve out some kind of Christmas for the kids/political gain...heighten restrictions once again in the first half of January.

Stu, this is exactly the government’s plan. Micháel said it last night in the speech handed to him. Open and close until there’s a vaccine.

Absolutely nuts.

patnor1011

joeguevara wrote: »

Have you just quoted an entire article from Natural News? Just to confirm when you do a media bias check the following comes up flashing in red ‘ Overall, we rate Natural News a Questionable source based on the promotion of quackery level pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, as well as extreme right wing bias. This is one of the most discredited sources on the internet.’.

So?
Do you have anything factual to add to counter what they wrote?

Idbatterim

Open up for xmas? it will be back to level 3 restrictions, its hardly going to be back to the likes of Xmas 2019 etc, 6 weeks of this bs, then we get a handful of days over xmas, woop de doooo!

christmas is a write off, nearly the entire year has been and next year will be! that is the reality!

Also for all the years FG have been banging on about SF and their magic money tree! FG have found several of them, same as FF with last bust. The irony that the magic tree is a split between the multinationals and most likely FG voters...

ThunbergsAreGo

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I personally can’t see people’s behaviour changing that much from this week to next week and beyond. Everyone will tweak the rules a little to suit themselves and some will simply ignore the changes. Unfortunately there will be a hell of a lot of businesses shutting permanently between now and Christmas, mud sliding down the hillside eventually covers everyone. Watch out folks.

Agree, those who are following the rules will alter their behaviours. Those we weren't still wont

patnor1011

Even russians are laughing from our lockdown love affair

Ireland to put nation under ‘Europe’s strictest’ quarantine for six weeks amid record daily Covid-19 infections.

https://www.rt.com/news/503955-ireland-hard-lockdown-coronavirus/

ThunbergsAreGo

patnor1011 wrote: »

Even russians are laughing from our lockdown love affair

Ireland to put nation under ‘Europe’s strictest’ quarantine for six weeks amid record daily Covid-19 infections.

https://www.rt.com/news/503955-ireland-hard-lockdown-coronavirus/

Very little laughing in that article....

facehugger99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Problem being that stop/start technology works for engines, it doesn't work for businesses.

I believe the pattern will be stop - start - stop...

Speaking in general terms, the level of ignorance in this country about economics is quite staggering, its frightening actually.

If we spent less time teaching Irish and a bit more on basic economics, we would have a much better political system and society.

Allinall

patnor1011 wrote: »

Even russians are laughing from our lockdown love affair

Ireland to put nation under ‘Europe’s strictest’ quarantine for six weeks amid record daily Covid-19 infections.

https://www.rt.com/news/503955-ireland-hard-lockdown-coronavirus/

I'm not seeing any laughing in that article?

It's just reporting the facts.