Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

FintanMcluskey

Ciara Kelly is a voice of reason.

NPHET not concerned with public health

s1ippy

MadYaker wrote: »

We never tried to pursue a zero covid strategy. Nobody in NPHET or government said we were so I don't know where you got that from.

How do you let the virus spread through the healthy portion of society without it getting to the 30% of the population who are either over 60 or have some condition that puts them at higher risk?

Aside from that, two children of schoolgoing age required hospitalisation this week, and one of them ended up being admitted to ICU. So the plan of let it rip might be a lot more traumatic than healthy people getting a bit sick and being fine.

_Kaiser_

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ciara Kelly is a voice of reason.

NPHET not concerned with public health

O'Brien struggling with her. No easy-chat like Donnelly had with Claire Byrne last night.

Ginger n Lemon

OMG. WHAT THE F

Ive tried to stay away from this thread. I thought things will get better. But somehow we went into lockdown when average deaths with covid since July were 1 person a day in a country of 5m.

We were laughing at those tin foil hat conspirator theorists but isnt it becoming obvious that 25% + unemployment when 1 - 2 people a die with covid, who are aged well over life expectancy, is eye brow raising to say the least?

All the suicides. This is truly horrifying.

The only good news is below, now, Irish businesses were stupid enough to follow restrictions back in March/April, but by now I hope it becomes evident that govt has 0 science and backup behind 90% + of "restrictions"

"Berlin had imposed the 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. restriction a week ago but a spokesman for the administrative court said: "The curfew has been suspended for the time being as the court considers it disproportionate in view of other measures taken to fight the pandemic."

The ban on selling alcohol after 11:00 p.m. still applies.

The court said there was insufficient evidence that bars and restaurants that stick to the existing rules on mask-wearing and social distancing contribute to increasing infection rates.

The decision to put a temporary halt to the curfew was in response to legal action brought by 11 restaurant owners who contested the restrictive measure."

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-berlin-court-suspends-bar-and-restaurant-curfew/a-55306096

ahh the evidence. I forgot what it looks like, havent been presented with any evidence from RTE since epidemic began :rolleyes:

average_runner

Government are trying to bribe people by saying level 2 for xmas and pubs will open.
Ah well, luckily enough people aren't buying into anymore as there is no enforcement, so the government can keep the bloody pubs closed for xmas.

Younger generation didn't give a crap in level 3, now its time for the rest of us not give a crap and keep the pubs closed

funnydoggy

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

OMG. WHAT THE F

Ive tried to stay away from this thread.

I was wondering where you were hope all's well.

Ginger n Lemon

funnydoggy wrote: »

I was wondering where you were hope all's well.

Fantastic. I got a short haircut last week, I knew some hysterical measures will be brought in since deaths have been very low. But i didnt know THAT hysterical of measures ...

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

OMG. WHAT THE F

Ive tried to stay away from this thread. I thought things will get better. But somehow we went into lockdown when average deaths with covid since July were 1 person a die in a country of 5m.

We were laughing at those tin foil hat conspirator theorists but isnt it becoming obvious that 25% + unemployment when 1 - 2 people a die with covid, who are aged well over life expectancy, is eye brow raising to say the least?

All the suicides. This is truly horrifying.

The only good news is below, now, Irish businesses were stupid enough to follow restrictions back in March/April, but by now I hope it becomes evident that govt has 0 science and backup behind 90% + of "restrictions"

"Berlin had imposed the 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. restriction a week ago but a spokesman for the administrative court said: "The curfew has been suspended for the time being as the court considers it disproportionate in view of other measures taken to fight the pandemic."

The ban on selling alcohol after 11:00 p.m. still applies.

The court said there was insufficient evidence that bars and restaurants that stick to the existing rules on mask-wearing and social distancing contribute to increasing infection rates.

The decision to put a temporary halt to the curfew was in response to legal action brought by 11 restaurant owners who contested the restrictive measure."

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-berlin-court-suspends-bar-and-restaurant-curfew/a-55306096

ahh the evidence. I forgot what it looks like, havent been presented with any evidence from RTE since epidemic began :rolleyes:

But the bars weren't behaving here, look at the pub parties in Meath, Cork Donegal, Dublin, Wexford Weatmeath etc.


Hopefully these licenses will be gone when they try to renew them

3xh

s1ippy wrote: »

Aside from that, two children of schoolgoing age required hospitalisation this week, and one of them ended up being admitted to ICU. So the plan of let it rip might be a lot more traumatic than healthy people getting a bit sick and being fine.

That’s interesting. You’d think the government and the media would be telling all who’ll listen about this news, to justify and solidify the support for level 5.

Actually, sorry. I just realised; schools are to stay open under their 6-wk level 5 lockdown. How silly of me.

Captain_Crash

average_runner wrote: »

But the bars weren't behaving here, look at the pub parties in Meath, Cork Donegal, Dublin, Wexford Weatmeath etc.

Hopefully these licenses will be gone when they try to renew them

How many cases were linked back to pubs? And how many cases are linked back to schools? Because ones been closed and the other “isn’t a significant factor in the rise of cases”

Regarding licences, Berlin D2 for their licence renewed despite Garda objection!

bodice ripper

I am sorry, but am I allowed to drive across the country to visit my grandmother's grave? Am I reading that right?

ThunbergsAreGo

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ive tried to stay away from this thread. I thought things will get better. But somehow we went into lockdown when average deaths with covid since July were 1 person a die in a country of 5m.

When you actually write those numbers down the situation does seem absolutely ridiculous

joeguevara

patnor1011 wrote: »

So?
Do you have anything factual to add to counter what they wrote?

Yes I have the following actual facts.

The only part of the article that is vaguely factual is that two vaccine Trials that use aborted fetal cells have been temporarily suspended.

Everything else is poorly researched, understood and dangerous drivel.

I will go through the truth.

At this time, it is not known whether the two individuals (one from each trial) were given the vaccine or the placebo. Your article is completely based on the assertion that it was from the use of aborted cells but without any evidence.

Secondly, Cells derived from elective abortions have been used since the 1960s to manufacture vaccines, including current vaccines against rubella, chickenpox, hepatitis A, and shingles. They have also been used to make approved drugs against diseases including hemophilia, rheumatoid arthritis, and cystic fibrosis. The cells used are decades old and all sides including anti abortion Groups and all senior church leaders including the Vatican have Affirmed and reaffirmed that in the absence of alternatives, Catholics could, in good conscience, receive vaccines made using historical human fetal cell lines.

There is not one shred of evidence that vaccines have any connection with neurological disorders. The article suggests that the named vaccines cause a fatal brain disease only seen in cannibalism. The two patients have a symptoms of spinal information. It is common in trials that incidents like this happen, but to suggest that it is from a well established historical fatal cell line, which is used in so many established vaccines is a lie,

Both pharmaceutical companies temporarily paused the trials to investigate the issue and has not been directed to by a regulator. If there was even a shred of truth of what is described the whole comPanay would be chained and investigated. There has been reports of quality control issues in one plant but no further evidence.

Late-stage trials of the Oxford University’s ChAdOx1 vaccine (also christened AZD1222 and Covishield in India) are taking place in the UK, India, South Africa and Brazil. Trials, however, are on hold in the US. The vaccine candidate may get required clearances by Christmas in the UK, a report in The Times said.

The second trial which halted in September has now resumed, so completely destroys the abhorrent lies in the opinion piece you quoted.

Not one group, religious order or sane person puts forward the dangerous bs your article did, in fact the only basis that they have any issue with is that people should be given the opportunity, if possible to be vaccinated with a vaccine that doesn’t contain feral cells. But if not possible they affirm their agreement.

You copy and pasted an article that is banned as being unsafe and untrue propaganda. The fact that you would try and argue that vaccines are akin to cannibalism is akin to describing someone who floats a witch. Why simply plagiarise a whack job literary diarrhoea and then demand facts to counter it. Seeing as you had no facts yourself and put forward lies is everything that needs to be known.

weldoninhio

Captain_Crash wrote: »

How many cases were linked back to pubs? And how many cases are linked back to schools? Because ones been closed and the other “isn’t a significant factor in the rise of cases”

Regarding licences, Berlin D2 for their licence renewed despite Garda objection!

When PressUp gets their day in court, I'd nearly guarantee that the weasel govt will come out with the "guidelines and not rules" spiel that they used for the Ryanair/Aer Lingus court case. I've emailed Revenue multiple times asking what the laws (not guidelines) were regarding closing "my" pub under the "Living with Covid" levels, such as was I liable to any fines if I opened, could I lose my license, what powers the Gardai had to close me down and were these restrictions covered in law, or just guidelines.

They have so far refused to reply.

average_runner

Captain_Crash wrote: »

How many cases were linked back to pubs? And how many cases are linked back to schools? Because ones been closed and the other “isn’t a significant factor in the rise of cases”

Regarding licences, Berlin D2 for their licence renewed despite Garda objection!

School kids are picking it up from home more than any where?


Cases link to pubs: Over 66 in one county as a result of one party and then guess attended again the following week to celebrate a county final win.


36 from another gaa party where a player played county final while waiting on test result and partied afterwards.

These 2 i know as relations were involved.

galway_cowboy

bodice ripper wrote: »

I am sorry, but am I allowed to drive across the country to visit my grandmother's grave? Am I reading that right?

Yes.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Also for all the years FG have been banging on about SF and their magic money tree! FG have found several of them, same as FF with last bust. The irony that they magic tree is a split between the multinationals and most likely FG voters...

We are borrowing interest free from the EU along with the rest if Europe in the middle of the biggest crisis in decades if not since WW2.

How you can even pretend to compare that to SF nonsense promises with no access to money and not for emergency reasons is beyond logic and purely to throw dirt at the gov as you don’t agree with their correct course of action.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ciara Kelly is a voice of reason.

NPHET not concerned with public health

Ha ha you would want to get checked for that ailment if you are hearing reason from Ciara Kelly!

Allinall

weldoninhio wrote: »

When PressUp gets their day in court, I'd nearly guarantee that the weasel govt will come out with the "guidelines and not rules" spiel that they used for the Ryanair/Aer Lingus court case. I've emailed Revenue multiple times asking what the laws (not guidelines) were regarding closing "my" pub under the "Living with Covid" levels, such as was I liable to any fines if I opened, could I lose my license, what powers the Gardai had to close me down and were these restrictions covered in law, or just guidelines.

They have so far refused to reply.

Why would you email Revenue?

Captain_Crash

average_runner wrote: »

School kids are picking it up from home more than any where?


Cases link to pubs: Over 66 in one county as a result of one party and then guess attended again the following week to celebrate a county final win.


36 from another gaa party where a player played county final while waiting on test result and partied afterwards.

These 2 i know as relations were involved.

Do you have any links to data regarding the school kids picking it up at home! And does the fact that the definition of a close contact in a school being vastly different to a close contact in the street massage these figures at all? Last I read was that schools were a huge factor (prior to contact criteria being changed)

I’ve said from the start that we either keep locking down until there is a vaccine or the money runs out.

The vaccines look like they won’t provide immunity so I don’t believe they’ll end this. Unless the narrative can be spun. For example, removing probable and possible deaths. Not including already dying folk in the deaths.

We are likely waiting on our money to run out and then we will be forced to live with Covid.

Let’s pray the borrowers start refusing us credit!

Rrrrrr2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’ve said from the start that we either keep locking down until there is a vaccine or the money runs out.

The vaccines look like they won’t provide immunity so I don’t believe they’ll end this. Unless the narrative can be spun. For example, removing probable and possible deaths. Not including already dying folk in the deaths.

We are likely waiting on our money to run out and then we will be forced to live with Covid.

Let’s pray the borrowers start refusing us credit!

They did in 2010 fairly pronto. Really does not take much for them to be spooked - we got about 18 months then before we entered an IMF programme

average_runner

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Do you have any links to data regarding the school kids picking it up at home! And does the fact that the definition of a close contact in a school being vastly different to a close contact in the street massage these figures at all? Last I read was that schools were a huge factor (prior to contact criteria being changed)

Its pretty obvious that is the main place. Other wise schools would be riddle by now. Our school had 3 cases, didn't spread, schools nearby had 4-5 cases and didn't spread.



How many primary schools are riddled right now with it?

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve said from the start that we either keep locking down until there is a vaccine or the money runs out.

The vaccines look like they won’t provide immunity so I don’t believe they’ll end this. Unless the narrative can be spun. For example, removing probable and possible deaths. Not including already dying folk in the deaths.

We are likely waiting on our money to run out and then we will be forced to live with Covid.

Let’s pray the borrowers start refusing us credit!

EU will continue to pump the money out, its what America has been doing for the last 20 years

Captain_Crash

weldoninhio wrote: »

When PressUp gets their day in court, I'd nearly guarantee that the weasel govt will come out with the "guidelines and not rules" spiel that they used for the Ryanair/Aer Lingus court case. I've emailed Revenue multiple times asking what the laws (not guidelines) were regarding closing "my" pub under the "Living with Covid" levels, such as was I liable to any fines if I opened, could I lose my license, what powers the Gardai had to close me down and were these restrictions covered in law, or just guidelines.

They have so far refused to reply.

If the government use the same defence as they did against Ryanair, the restrictions are finished that second! We’ll find out soon hopefully!

Regarding rules v guidelines... this isn’t advice at all as although I studied law, I don’t practice and went a different career route. However, I’m still in contact with several class mates from college who do practice, and this came up in conversation a while back after Berlin D2 got a renewal. The thought is that although they flouted guidelines, pub licences have requirements attached and because they got a renewal it’s likely they didn’t break any of the licensing requirements! If this is the case, and again it’s only theory, but educated theory the restricting may just be guidelines! Ryanair may have been very clever in that they may have railroaded government in that case!

SAMTALK

average_runner wrote: »

Its pretty obvious that is the main place. Other wise schools would be riddle by now. Our school had 3 cases, didn't spread, schools nearby had 4-5 cases and didn't spread.



How many primary schools are riddled right now with it?

All the people shouting for schools to close down and yet as you say schools should be riddled by now

I think it was actually one of the better decisions the government made, keeping the schools open. The kids need this stability now and to be honest the teachers whinging is getting a little wearing .

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

EU will continue to pump the money out, its what America has been doing for the last 20 years

I don’t know...

Will the EU be ok with Ireland constantly hiding under the bed?

We haven’t even tried living with Covid.

Captain_Crash

average_runner wrote: »

Its pretty obvious that is the main place. Other wise schools would be riddle by now. Our school had 3 cases, didn't spread, schools nearby had 4-5 cases and didn't spread.

How many primary schools are riddled right now with it?

I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking? has the contact definition resulted in that? It’s an honest question as if schools were not spreading it that data would be plastered everywhere for us to see! But it’s not, we’re just told to believe it and move on!

Cases soared when schools opened, as they did throughout Europe.... a wiseman once said, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... it’s prob a duck

FintanMcluskey

Tubridy reckons if we behave people can come from the US for Christmas.

Utter diarrhoea from the talentless cretin

ShyMets

I was just thinking about public transport. With schools, construction and manufacturing staying open and buses running at 25% capacity I suspect come Thursday morning there are going to be a lot of people left standing at bus stops as buses go by full

galway_cowboy

It's all a big laugh

After three weeks of Level 5, he said, the expected case numbers would fall to between 250 and 300 per day, but would shoot rapidly back up to 1,000 per day by the middle of December and keep rising. That would hugely threaten our Christmas festivities.

But if the restrictions could be imposed and held in place for six weeks then the number of new cases would fall to between 50 and 100 per day by the start of December and stay low right throughout the Christmas period, before rising to about 300 per day by early January. That would save Christmas.

And that is exactly what the Government has now chosen to try to do.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1020/1172624-covid-lee-analysis/

Hmm, it's almost like lockdown's don't make a difference and you as a society have to learn to live with the disease...

joeguevara

weldoninhio wrote: »

When PressUp gets their day in court, I'd nearly guarantee that the weasel govt will come out with the "guidelines and not rules" spiel that they used for the Ryanair/Aer Lingus court case. I've emailed Revenue multiple times asking what the laws (not guidelines) were regarding closing "my" pub under the "Living with Covid" levels, such as was I liable to any fines if I opened, could I lose my license, what powers the Gardai had to close me down and were these restrictions covered in law, or just guidelines.

They have so far refused to reply.

Would this be what you are looking for https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/14/eng/enacted/a1420.pdf Been law for a month and a half,

The month before the Garda had legal power to close for the rest of the day and then up to 30 days if additional Breaches.

It outlines there powers to object to renewals.

Revenue would have no authority or supervision of this area. The legislation and all the debates of the bill were published on oirewchtas website and discussed and cited on most newspapers.

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don’t know...

Will the EU be ok with Ireland constantly hiding under the bed?

We haven’t even tried living with Covid.

We have tried Living with Lucy isn't that traumatic enough?!?

If the rest of the EU is doing similar then yes.

FintanMcluskey

Guest “Have a bath, take a deep breath”

Ryan “ yeah just get the bubbles going, have a glass of wine, I feel better already”

Please cut my ears off and pour hot engine oil into the crevice

bucketybuck

After three weeks of Level 5, he said, the expected case numbers would fall to between 250 and 300 per day, but would shoot rapidly back up to 1,000 per day by the middle of December and keep rising.

Of course cases are going to fall. Not because people stop getting the virus, but because they stop getting tested for it.

Because who were the people getting tested? It was the people who needed tests for work. Now they will all be sitting at home not bothering to get a test for their slight cough.

So less tests mean less cases and NPHET will say lockdown is working, when all they have really done is lose the water weight.

Don't Chute!

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

We are borrowing interest free from the EU along with the rest if Europe in the middle of the biggest crisis in decades if not since WW2.

How you can even pretend to compare that to SF nonsense promises with no access to money and not for emergency reasons is beyond logic and purely to throw dirt at the gov as you don’t agree with their correct course of action.



Ha ha you would want to get checked for that ailment if you are hearing reason from Ciara Kelly!

Nox, Ciara Kelly is an ACTUAL Doctor, not a Fisher Price one like yourself.

gmisk

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Nox, Ciara Kelly is an ACTUAL Doctor, not a Fisher Price one like yourself.

She is a GP ffs....I don't think the WHO or the CDC are battling over getting her signed up!

She also dodged what her plan would be when someone sent in a text to her radio show....she didn't have enough time to go through it....lol

Strumms

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

So like many many other illnesses or viruses.

Would you call the flu the deadly virus?

Call it what you like.

Either way covid has killed over 4 times more people than flu did in the entirety of last year across the world, NOW.

Flu kills approximately 250,000 people every year on earth.

We haven’t reached the end of October and according to the WHO, covid has now killed 1.12 million globally.

Ginger n Lemon

Strumms wrote: »

Call it what you like.

Either way covid has killed over 4 times more people than flu did in the entirety of last year across the world, NOW.

Flu kills approximately 250,000 people every year on earth.

We haven’t reached the end of October and according to the WHO, covid has now killed 1.12 million globally.

Covid has not killed 1.12m. 1.12 m (vast majority of whom were over the age of 80) have died while (or after) testing positive for PCR test.

Turn off RTE. Really.

Captain_Crash

Strumms wrote: »

Call it what you like.

Either way covid has killed over 4 times more people than flu did in the entirety of last year across the world, NOW.

Flu kills approximately 250,000 people every year on earth.

We haven’t reached the end of October and according to the WHO, covid has now killed 1.12 million globally.

Adding to what G&L said, you have to also take into account there isn't widespread testing for flu, certainly not to the scale of covid. At the moment, throughout Europe at least, you get tested for covid on admission to hospital. This has never happened for flu, despite the several flu pandemics in recent memory.

Don't Chute!

gmisk wrote: »

She is a GP ffs....I don't think the WHO or the CDC are battling over getting her signed up!

She also dodged what her plan would be when someone sent in a text to her radio show....she didn't have enough time to go through it....lol

She is still more of a doctor than Nox which was my point. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make.

TheCitizen

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ciara Kelly is a voice of reason.

NPHET not concerned with public health

What are they concerned with did she say?

RugbyLad11

What's with the grave visit loophole?

Can't you just say you're visiting Micheal Collins grave or Bob's grave if stopped while outside the 5km radius?

gmisk

Don't Chute! wrote: »

She is still more of a doctor than Nox which was my point. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make.

She is a GP.... she isn't particularly qualified to give definitive opinions on a pandemic, she is a populist, gormless, clueless twit.

Idbatterim

it makes sense why there are no income tax related hikes or PS pay cuts etc, imagine the backlash if they did, they need as much public buy in as possible! These same fools if you touched their income now, would have a fit! YET, YET the endless billons being squandered, is actually coming out of their pockets, in terms of future higher taxation... or no income tax cuts etc, where there would have been. Room for no or less pay increases...

ShyMets

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

What's with the grave visit loophole?

Can't you just say you're visiting Micheal Collins grave or Bob's grave if stopped while outside the 5km radius?

I like your thinking. But its a good point. With the exemptions in place it really wont be that hard for people to circumvent the 5k rule if they wish

Strumms

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Covid has not killed 1.12m. 1.12 m (vast majority of whom were over the age of 80) have died while (or after) testing positive for PCR test.

Turn off RTE. Really.

Tv is well and truly off my friend. WHO have verified the numbers. I couldn’t give a rats what age they were. Everybody including both my parents, now in their 80’s are lives, people alive.

They are not publishing for the craic.

The underlying conditions mob need to see a psychologist. A nice big collective get together. Next time somebody dies of cancer... “ ahhhh yeah, but they had an underlying condition, they only died WITH cancer “. Right :eek:

FintanMcluskey

TheCitizen wrote: »

What are they concerned with did she say?

Only Covid no other health issues.

completedit

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

They did in 2010 fairly pronto. Really does not take much for them to be spooked - we got about 18 months then before we entered an IMF programme

Yeah but head of IMF has said they're done with austerity.

Don't Chute!

gmisk wrote: »

She is a GP.... she isn't particularly qualified to give definitive opinions on a pandemic, she is a populist, gormless, clueless twit.

She is eminently more qualified than you are, of that much I am certain.

Rrrrrr2

completedit wrote: »

Yeah but head of IMF has said they're done with austerity.

Yea, and if you believe that you'll believe anything- countries aren't going to given Carte Blanche to spend whatever they please. Despite what the lockdown lovers will tell the gullible.