Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

galway_cowboy

greengrass88 wrote: »

Thinking of leaving Dublin today or tomorrow and heading to the folks (other side of the country) for the duration of this lockdown...if I get stopped at a checkpoint can I just say I'm heading home?

You're going to see a grave, right? Yes, you are. No stopping for you.

joeguevara

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s been renewed, and the guards objected to the renewal and it’s going to a hearing. But as of now, they have a licence. This is effectively an appeal of that renewal!

You are correct that the establishment is currently licenced and has the ability to trader with the undertaking to be Covid Compliant was dependent on the level of restriction. When we were renewing our licence there was never any formal objection so didn’t know what the process was so probably most would have assumed it to be the process you outlined. The legislation doesn’t clearly set out the process either, and assuming it is outlined in Court process.

The Law Society have a great article on it which explains it in full. https://www.lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/Practising/Practice-Notes/Renewal-of-Liquor-Licences-1992---Tax-Clearance-Certificate/#.X46_JS14X4A

If there is a formal objection either from the Gardai or a member of the public, the court will consider whether it has merit and is it an arguable case. If it doesn’t meet an appropriate standard, the judge will dismiss it and provide a compliance certificate. You can then automatically renew with Revenue after paying the fee based on turnover and a tax free certificate.

If the objection has merit, it will be put forward for hearing and evidence will be presented. In such circumstances (as in Berlin D2) the existing licence is temporarily extended until the outcome of the case. If the objection is upheld then it could mean the loss of licence. If it not upheld then it’s the same as paragraph above. .

AUDI20

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Latest from Europe as restrictions gather pace and lock downs are being announced






Is just the start. Ireland is just ahead of the curve this time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/20/coronavirus-live-news-who-says-failure-to-quarantine-behind-soaring-case-rises

Be careful, these stories won't suit its not an emergency brigade stance.

AUDI20

greengrass88 wrote: »

Thinking of leaving Dublin today or tomorrow and heading to the folks (other side of the country) for the duration of this lockdown...if I get stopped at a checkpoint can I just say I'm heading home?

You will be grand, the 5K don't come into effect till Thursday.

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

Oh, I don't know. I'd guess it's that Covid pandemic thing that's going on. Maybe you don't realise...it's why NPHET were set up.

Another smarta*s response. Dont disappoint

That covid pandemic thing going on for 8 months now. A bit worrying isnt it? A virus with mortality rate of 0.14% is causing an 8 month long emergency?

Ginger n Lemon

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Have RTE gone back to STAY LOCAL yet?

Or maybe they'll go with the new narrative SAVE XMAS instead?

I can definitely see RTE announcing that in bold.

When do we clap for HSE? They were working hard in empty hospitals back in March and April. Heroes

froog

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Another smarta*s response. Dont disappoint

That covid pandemic thing going on for 8 months now. A bit worrying isnt it? A virus with mortality rate of 0.14% is causing an 8 month long emergency?

Where are you getting 0.14 from?? Dangerous lies.

greengrass88

AUDI20 wrote: »

You will be grand, the 5K don't come into effect till Thursday.

Just conscious that they dont want us leaving the county, but I think I'll go for it

Ginger n Lemon

froog wrote: »

Where are you getting 0.14 from?? Dangerous lies.

WHO. confirmed study showing 10% + of population already had covid.

The death number worldwide you can get from google search. and then hopefully you know which figure to divide by which

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Another smarta*s response. Dont disappoint

That covid pandemic thing going on for 8 months now. A bit worrying isnt it? A virus with mortality rate of 0.14% is causing an 8 month long emergency?

I'm not here to quibble over whether it's an actual emergency now, or not. I'm pointing out that it's why NPHET were set up. It's their raison d'être.

froog

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

WHO. confirmed study showing 10% + of population already had covid.

The death number worldwide you can get from google search. and then hopefully you know which figure to divide by which

The WHO estimated fatality rate is 0.6%. But you already know that.

And its worked out with a fair bit of maths. Not your back of a fag packet "calculation".

Seanachai

greengrass88 wrote: »

Thinking of leaving Dublin today or tomorrow and heading to the folks (other side of the country) for the duration of this lockdown...if I get stopped at a checkpoint can I just say I'm heading home?

Even when the lockdown kicks in you can still leave the county for essential travel such as caring for relatives, emergencies, work etc. Unless you're in a car full of lads looking shifty it's highly unlikely they'll turn you around.

bucketybuck

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I can definitely see RTE announcing that in bold.

When do we clap for HSE? They were working hard in empty hospitals back in March and April. Heroes

Better hold off a bit, now we're hearing that doctors aren't actually doctors we'll need to clarify exactly who gets the claps going forward.

walus

I need to go up and down to Belfast from Cork next week by car. I’m not sure about the level of gardai obstruction that will be put in place and fines for leaving my 5km radius. Not that I care too much but Belfast is a 4.5h drive and I don’t want to get stuck at multiple check points because I will not turn this around in one day. Also, will they fine me just once and give a receipt, so that once fined I’m good to go, or each subsequent gardai will issue his fine? Just interested in how you see this issue.

The trip has to happen. Technically I'll be leaving the country. So if I'm still liable for fines, so should be those who fly out as well, right?

Allinall

walus wrote: »

I need to go up and down to Belfast from Cork next week by car. I’m not sure about the level of gardai obstruction that will be put in place and fines for leaving my 5km radius. Not that I care too much but Belfast is a 4.5h drive and I don’t want to get stuck at multiple check points because I will not turn this around in one day. Also, will they fine me just once and give a receipt, so that once fined I’m good to go, or each subsequent gardai will issue his fine? Just interested in how you see this issue.

The trip has to happen. Technically I'll be leaving the country. So if I'm still liable for fines, so should be those who fly out as well, right?

On what basis does it "have to happen"? That's the important question.

As regards the bolded bit. Do you seriously have to ask?
If you get a speeding fine, does that then give you carte blanche to drive at 200 km/h for the rest of your journey?

The Continental Op

Allinall wrote: »

On what basis does it "have to happen"? That's the important question.

As regards the bolded bit. Do you seriously have to ask?
If you get a speeding fine, does that then give you carte blanche to drive at 200 km/h for the rest of your journey?

The speeding is multiple offences once out of your 5km zone its the same offence multiple times.

walus

Allinall wrote: »

On what basis does it "have to happen"? That's the important question.

As regards the bolded bit. Do you seriously have to ask?
If you get a speeding fine, does that then give you carte blanche to drive at 200 km/h for the rest of your journey?

I understand what you saying, but those two things are not actually equal in my book anyway.

Hammer Archer

I'm currently sitting in a hotel in Dublin waiting for a call from my wife who's about to give birth to our second child. She's freaking out and I can't be there to comfort until she goes into theatre. Once the baby is born, I'll have around 30 minutes or so with them both before being booted out the door again. I can then visit from 5 until 7 this evening before having to leave. There's no guarantee that I will be able to visit them on Thursday at all with the new restrictions. And that breaks my heart. All I want to do is help look after my daughter and wife while the latter recovers from major surgery.

Throughout the pregnancy, I haven't been allowed accompany her to appointments for emotional support, despite her being very nervous (she's lost more than one pregnancy in the past). Once we bring baby home, we're likely not going to get a single visitor until December the earliest.

Yet we're probably the luckier expectant parents in all this. For our first child, my wife was in labour for over 48 hours with me by her side for the entire time. I cannot imagine either of us going through that alone but that will probably happen to countless couples. Then you have the horror of women going into appointments alone and being told the worst news possible and having to deal with that without their partner with them. And not to mention their partners who will have to get that news over the phone and not be able to be with their partner in the room and comfort them. And not to mention the couples where one or both parties have lost jobs because of this and the added stress that will cause when expecting a new arrival.

This is not living with Covid. It's merely existing. And I'm absolutely furious that my two daughters will likely be the ones that will suffer throughout their young lives as all the destruction caused to society will have to be paid back by their generation.

Sorry for the rant. I've been getting more and more frustrated with the whole situation over the last few weeks.

Rrrrrr2

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm not here to quibble over whether it's an actual emergency now, or not. I'm pointing out that it's why NPHET were set up. It's their raison d'être.

Nphets “raisin detre” is to promote themselves professionally and politically- let’s not be under any illusions about these opportunists. Are they all “working” on a charitable basis?

Anyhow great to see the strong push back against more of this already failed nonsense again this morning. I’ve a strong sense that this latest farce is going to play out very differently to March to June forced shutdown with very little appetite for it outside if the usual hypochondriac and media circle.

There’s most definitely no false illusion this time “we are all in it together “ or any of the nauseating meaningless hollow rubbish.

Penfailed

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Anyhow great to see the strong push back against more of this already failed nonsense again this morning. I’ve a strong sense that this latest farce is going to play out very differently to March to June forced shutdown with very little appetite for it outside if the usual hypochondriac and media circle

Is there a strong push back though? There was a fella from the ERSI (Economic and Social Research Institute) on the wireless this morning. He said that the consistent consensus is that it is being handled well by the government. When asked, "Should there be more restrictions?" 60% said 'yes', 20% said 'no' and the rest were happy with the current restrictions. Those 60% (three times more) got their wish.

hawkwing

froog wrote: »

Where are you getting 0.14 from?? Dangerous lies.

it's total carnage out there since March :eek: - Of the 125 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 109 had underlying conditions

3xh

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I'm currently sitting in a hotel in Dublin waiting for a call from my wife who's about to give birth to our second child. She's freaking out and I can't be there to comfort until she goes into theatre. Once the baby is born, I'll have around 30 minutes or so with them both before being booted out the door again. I can then visit from 5 until 7 this evening before having to leave. There's no guarantee that I will be able to visit them on Thursday at all with the new restrictions. And that breaks my heart. All I want to do is help look after my daughter and wife while the latter recovers from major surgery.

Throughout the pregnancy, I haven't been allowed accompany her to appointments for emotional support, despite her being very nervous (she's lost more than one pregnancy in the past). Once we bring baby home, we're likely not going to get a single visitor until December the earliest.

Yet we're probably the luckier expectant parents in all this. For our first child, my wife was in labour for over 48 hours with me by her side for the entire time. I cannot imagine either of us going through that alone but that will probably happen to countless couples. Then you have the horror of women going into appointments alone and being told the worst news possible and having to deal with that without their partner with them. And not to mention their partners who will have to get that news over the phone and not be able to be with their partner in the room and comfort them. And not to mention the couples where one or both parties have lost jobs because of this and the added stress that will cause when expecting a new arrival.

This is not living with Covid. It's merely existing. And I'm absolutely furious that my two daughters will likely be the ones that will suffer throughout their young lives as all the destruction caused to society will have to be paid back by their generation.

Sorry for the rant. I've been getting more and more frustrated with the whole situation over the last few weeks.

Mate, you really need to understand these latest requests to comply with some new guidelines.

I can’t answer for hospital visiting times but if family want to see you and you want to see family, there are exemptions for it. There’s nothing announced last night that’ll stop this from happening. Relax.

Give your other child hope that they can visit extended family next weekend or that they’re coming over to visit them after school some day. They’ll pick up on your depressed tone and feel worried somebody’s stopping them from seeing family.

Local hospital restrictions aside, there is no change here regarding family visits. As I said, read up on the exemptions.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve said from the start that we either keep locking down until there is a vaccine or the money runs out.

The vaccines look like they won’t provide immunity so I don’t believe they’ll end this. Unless the narrative can be spun. For example, removing probable and possible deaths. Not including already dying folk in the deaths.

We are likely waiting on our money to run out and then we will be forced to live with Covid.

Let’s pray the borrowers start refusing us credit!

we are already living with covid.
living with covid equals restrictions to minimise the spread of the virus, and protect what we can.

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If the government use the same defence as they did against Ryanair, the restrictions are finished that second! We’ll find out soon hopefully!

Regarding rules v guidelines... this isn’t advice at all as although I studied law, I don’t practice and went a different career route. However, I’m still in contact with several class mates from college who do practice, and this came up in conversation a while back after Berlin D2 got a renewal. The thought is that although they flouted guidelines, pub licences have requirements attached and because they got a renewal it’s likely they didn’t break any of the licensing requirements! If this is the case, and again it’s only theory, but educated theory the restricting may just be guidelines! Ryanair may have been very clever in that they may have railroaded government in that case!

everyone knew that the travel "restrictions" were guidelines as this was made clear.
ryanair got their arses handed to them in the courts, not sure how that was clever or railroading government.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Covid has not killed 1.12m. 1.12 m (vast majority of whom were over the age of 80) have died while (or after) testing positive for PCR test.

Turn off RTE. Really.

WHO says otherwise.
RTE is fine, it's generally a reliable source.

Idbatterim wrote: »

it makes sense why there are no income tax related hikes or PS pay cuts etc, imagine the backlash if they did, they need as much public buy in as possible! These same fools if you touched their income now, would have a fit! YET, YET the endless billons being squandered, is actually coming out of their pockets, in terms of future higher taxation... or no income tax cuts etc, where there would have been. Room for no or less pay increases...

there were never going to be tax cuts, tax cuts are not viable in a country which already pays low tax rates.
if you think billions are being wasted now, you would be in for a shock if we went with whatever plan you would like.

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

when do they ever not whinge to be fair this is like christmas for them

they never whinge, they make legitimate complaints and highlight legitimate issues.
and to be fair, there are a hell of a lot of those within the education system.

Kermit.de.frog

AUDI20 wrote: »

Be careful, these stories won't suit its not an emergency brigade stance.

Good to see some of these broadcasters turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

froog

hawkwing wrote: »

it's total carnage out there since March :eek: - Of the 125 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 109 had underlying conditions

Why would you only count people below the age of 65 ffs? Old people are expendable are they?

Gael23

Another year of this? https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54371559

FintanMcluskey

Gael23 wrote: »

Another year of this? https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54371559

The quickest out and back to normality is when the country is utterly broke and unable to access any funding.

Normality, but we may be eating rice rations donated by sub Saharan Africa

polesheep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good to see some of these commentators turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

Calling someone a nutcase is not calling them out. Why didn't he refute what was being said?

Rrrrrr2

Talk radio in england is brilliant- lone listening to it. We have nothing like it at all here just nodding dimwits

martingriff

froog wrote: »

Why would you only count people below the age of 65 ffs? Old people are expendable are they?

Unfortunately yes they are to some. They call them end of life people who were probably going to die anyway. Also is probably excluded those with underlying condition as that is what killed them. Covid had no effect

Kermit.de.frog

polesheep wrote: »

Calling someone a nutcase is not calling them out. Why didn't he refute what was being said?

Because no evidence will ever be accepted by those people. Some times you just have to call them what they are.

They are deniers and worse - many are conspiratorial.

No evidence will ever be accepted.

martingriff

May I ask what people suggestions should be for living with Covid. Restriction, no restrictions, what type of restrictions, how to protect hospital numbers,

For me I say Stage 2 is good and be manageable if we all followed

Rrrrrr2

Penfailed wrote: »

Is there a strong push back though? There was a fella from the ERSI (Economic and Social Research Institute) on the wireless this morning. He said that the consistent consensus is that it is being handled well by the government. When asked, "Should there be more restrictions?" 60% said 'yes', 20% said 'no' and the rest were happy with the current restrictions. Those 60% (three times more) got their wish.

Not sure who they are speaking to but it’s sure as hell no one I speak to- and I’m a middle class professional (the cohort you’d imagine most in favour) so speak to peers who you’d imagine would be more supportive. The small business community are completely exasperated and also terrified really

froog

martingriff wrote: »

Unfortunately yes they are to some. They call them end of life people who were probably going to die anyway. Also is probably excluded those with underlying condition as that is what killed them. Covid had no effect

People over 65 are not end of life ffs.

Christ.

end of the road

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont see how 1 person dying per day with covid on average since July in a country of 4,900,000 can be classed as emergency.

Maybe there is something we dont know about covid currently - thats why its an emergency?

Maybe HSE dont have PPE? Thats why its an emergency?

Pen help me out please, why is current situation classed as "emergency"?

you are already aware of the reasons, you choose to ignore them so as to push an agenda and whinge constantly on the internet.

gmisk wrote: »

I can't wait for her follow up video with her alternative solution outlined in detail!

neither can i, but i expect we will be waiting indefinitely for it. ah well i suppose.

Captain_Crash wrote: »

You don’t need to have a solution to an issue recognise the approach taken as being of little benefit!

if you have a high profile platform with lots of people accessing that platform and listening to you speak, then it would certainly be wise/better for you to have a solution, so as to allow for greater discussion.

average_runner

Has any country examine the latest strain of Covi, is it the same one, is it weaker?

average_runner

end of the road wrote: »

you are already aware of the reasons, you choose to ignore them so as to push an agenda and whinge constantly on the internet.








neither can i, but i expect we will be waiting indefinitely for it. ah well i suppose.







if you have a high profile platform with lots of people accessing that platform and listening to you speak, then it would certainly be wise/better for you to have a solution, so as to allow for greater discussion.

I think your missing the point and no one is answering it for the people, is as follows:


The cases are sky rocketing throughout Europe, higher than ever but death rate is low.


Around the world the cases are growing but the death rate is falling. Graphs are clearly showing this.


I still believe everything should be open and just enforcement from the gardai.

martingriff

froog wrote: »

People over 65 are not end of life ffs.

Christ.

I know that you know that I said some. Read it again

JimToken

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good to see some of these broadcasters turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

The type of people who believe that nonsense are better off left believing it

CalamariFritti

froog wrote: »

The WHO estimated fatality rate is 0.6%. But you already know that.

And its worked out with a fair bit of maths. Not your back of a fag packet "calculation".

Well actually...

The WHO condensed multiple (dozens) of local studies into a macro study. And it goes with 0.05% for under 70s and 0.23% overall.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

growleaves

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Because no evidence will ever be accepted by those people. Some times you just have to call them what they are.

They are deniers and worse - many are conspiratorial.

No evidence will ever be accepted.

What are they conspiring to do?

Maxpfizer

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good to see some of these broadcasters turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

I don't really understand what's being said there that's wrong?

My understanding is that there are quite a lot of coronaviruses out there (including the common cold?).

So you could make the point that we don't always take a "herd immunity" approach and you could scold the presenter for not acknowledging the difference between SARS-CoV-2 and other less lethal coronaviruses.

Calling him a complete nutcase really only does the job of making it seem like people are choosing sides here based on political affiliation or whatever.

There's also the point that herd immunity would work in the long run but the price we'd have to pay in lives lost is just far too much so we can't take that approach.

This just comes across as more like a performance on both sides.
"You're a nutcase!"
"Get rid of this man!"

OK well thanks for informing the public and giving us a detailed and honest idea of what the hell is going on.

RoryMac

end of the road wrote: »

WHO says otherwise.
RTE is fine, it's generally a reliable source.

Do you honestly believe that over 1 million people worldwide have died because of Covid rather than with Covid??

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good to see some of these broadcasters turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

so as an economist and an alarmist, we are we not calling this joker out in the same regard?

https://www.northernsound.ie/monaghan-professor-says-coronavirus-combination-spanish-flu-great-depression/

charlie14

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Well actually...

The WHO condensed multiple (dozens) of local studies into a macro study. And it goes with 0.05% for under 70s and 0.23% overall.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

That appears to be littered with could be, would be and estimates.
We know the present ratio of deaths to confirmed case is 3%

darconio

RoryMac wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that over 1 million people worldwide have died because of Covid rather than with Covid??

Careful trying to explain this to the lockdown brigade, you might be addressed as a granny killer

dmakc

I'm convinced that if RTE and the wider media didn't have such a hard-on for a lockdown and hysteria (i.e. ratings) we'd still be 3.5

froog

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Well actually...

The WHO condensed multiple (dozens) of local studies into a macro study. And it goes with 0.05% for under 70s and 0.23% overall.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

No the WHO did not. That one guy did and published it on their journal. Worth googling the author by the way. One of the top anti lockdown people in trumps ear early on.

growleaves

charlie14 wrote: »

That appears to be littered with could be, would be and estimates.
We know the present ratio of deaths to confirmed case is 3%

As indeed it must be since they can't test every asymptomatic person in the world and indeed every IFR from history is also estimated.

Which is why we read things like:

Black Death 20-60% death rate; and

Spanish flu between 18-100 million dead

nacho libre

average_runner wrote: »

Has any country examine the latest strain of Covi, is it the same one, is it weaker?

I don't think there is sufficient evidence to say the virus has mutated and become weaker as a result.

Treatment now seems to be much better now than what it was. I forget what the exact stat is, but a lot less people are succumbing to it in ICU than they were back in April.