Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

JimToken

dmakc wrote: »

I'm convinced that if RTE and the wider media didn't have such a hard-on for a lockdown and hysteria (i.e. ratings) we'd still be 3.5

For the media It's like surfing a wave

They want to keep on top of the wave as long as possible with the hysteria

Strumms

Allinall wrote: »

She's lucky.

Not everyone has been, or will be as lucky as your aunt.

True, my cousin an asthma sufferer also survived, but the stress, worry, experience for her and her family including a very sick and elderly parent who she lived with was awful.

She works in childcare and caught it at the beginning of the pandemic. A parent dropped child off at the creche, just legged it “ yeah he’s grand, bit of a sniffle, talked to the doctor (she hadn’t she later admitted) just a cough and a sniffle”...five minutes after she left the staff were concerned, isolated the kid in a room away from the other children, contacted the parent who took 90 minutes to return. The kid is no longer facilitated at that crèche. Tough on the kid, but as it was put to me.....if the parent will be that blasé and careless about the health and wellbeing of staff and other children, it’s good luck and goodbye.

Time to get fûckin tough with these covid cünts. DONT be a covid cünt.

The Continental Op

Strumms wrote: »

..........

Time to get fûckin tough with these covid cünts. DONT be a covid cünt.

I can see the T-shirt now.

Rrrrrr2

polesheep wrote: »

Calling someone a nutcase is not calling them out. Why didn't he refute what was being said?

Because these people can’t defend lockdown and the massively disproportionate damage it’s doing to society’s- mr Bryant couldn’t defend that hence his little meltdown- anyone that dares question anything either gets sacked or labelled as above

RoryMac

The Continental Op wrote: »

I can see the T-shirt now.

I'd buy one if the shops ever open again

joeguevara

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If the government use the same defence as they did against Ryanair, the restrictions are finished that second! We’ll find out soon hopefully!

Regarding rules v guidelines... this isn’t advice at all as although I studied law, I don’t practice and went a different career route. However, I’m still in contact with several class mates from college who do practice, and this came up in conversation a while back after Berlin D2 got a renewal. The thought is that although they flouted guidelines, pub licences have requirements attached and because they got a renewal it’s likely they didn’t break any of the licensing requirements! If this is the case, and again it’s only theory, but educated theory the restricting may just be guidelines! Ryanair may have been very clever in that they may have railroaded government in that case!

I think that this is a major problem with people that have in some way a similar type of knowledge and believe that they are making an educated guess which turns out to be incorrect. It’s similar to someone who has a medical background but no knowledge of virus, statistics etc and making incorrect assumptions. Good example is your friends who practice but not in the area of licensing (I’m assuming as if they do it would be worrying). I’m not in any way saying that you are giving wrong information on Covid (as I agree with what’s you say), but due to a lack of clarity in the available legislation, it was unclear.

There is an article doing the rounds at the moment from an ex VP from Pfizer who believes that 99% of positive cases are false positives, he gives the reasons and looks plausible.

However simply by doing a fact check search, instead of blindly sharing it, he had missed a third data point which drastically changes the outcome data. Another one that is infuriating is the exasperation when deaths are adjusted upwards and claims that they are manipulated. When you try and explain that a death certificate does not to be registered for 3 months and a coroner can take a month, there would have been no way to retrieve this data. The gold medal winner earlier was the poster who plagiarised a whack job article calling viruses cannibalism.

Strumms

The Continental Op wrote: »

I can see the T-shirt now.

I’ve copyrighted it, right !

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

True, my cousin an asthma sufferer also survived, but the stress, worry, experience for her and her family including a very sick and elderly parent who she lived with was awful.

She works in childcare and caught it at the beginning of the pandemic. A parent dropped child off at the creche, just legged it “ yeah he’s grand, bit of a sniffle, talked to the doctor (she hadn’t she later admitted) just a cough and a sniffle”...five minutes after she left the staff were concerned, isolated the kid in a room away from the other children, contacted the parent who took 90 minutes to return. The kid is no longer facilitated at that crèche. Tough on the kid, but as it was put to me.....if the parent will be that blasé and careless about the health and wellbeing of staff and other children, it’s good luck and goodbye.

Time to get fûckin tough with these covid cünts. DONT be a covid cünt.

so did it later transpire the kid had covid? confirmed with a test so?
Also wtf! if that's the case, why are so many accepting of kids being low to no risk, you yourself just in the above say a child was able to pass this on in 90mins even having been isolated and the parent called. your cousin still picked it up?? doesn't that run completely contrary to why kids now walk around indoors without masks?

Baffling story on so many levels

CalamariFritti

charlie14 wrote: »

That appears to be littered with could be, would be and estimates.
We know the present ratio of deaths to confirmed case is 3%

We also know that confirmed cases and people who came in contact with this virus are two vastly different numbers.

In the absence of any real effort (at least here in Ireland) to get to better numbers these are the only numbers we have.

One number is a number we know for sure cannot be correct. Because there is not a hope in hell we caught every single positive. Even the most avid deadly-covid advocate won't deny this.

The other number is the best we know. Also probably not 100% accurate. But it also comes close to what we recorded in Ireland over the last few months and we know for sure we're still not catching every single positive. The accurate number - if we will ever know it - is most likely even lower than this.

You will argue that I'm biased, that I will believe the number I want to believe. And you're probably right. But it's not because I want to go for a pint, I truly believe it to be a more accurate number than the 3%.

I mean come on, hand on heart, do you believe that 3% of the infected will die from covid?

normanoffside

I honestly though that after yesterday's step down, the lest the government would be doing is to keep Dr T off the telly.

No such luck.

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1318535609489805313

Penfailed

RoryMac wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that over 1 million people worldwide have died because of Covid rather than with Covid??

What difference does it make? If you take Covid out of the equation, they wouldn't be dead.

ThewhiteJesus

every year at this time as the dark shadows are cast, along comes the black dog to so many, myself included.
This new lockdown will be final straw for many people.
But yet again, if you suffer from any mental illness you are cast away as an afterthought.

end of the road

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I can definitely see RTE announcing that in bold.

When do we clap for HSE? They were working hard in empty hospitals back in March and April. Heroes

yes, they are.

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Nphets “raisin detre” is to promote themselves professionally and politically- let’s not be under any illusions about these opportunists. Are they all “working” on a charitable basis?

Anyhow great to see the strong push back against more of this already failed nonsense again this morning. I’ve a strong sense that this latest farce is going to play out very differently to March to June forced shutdown with very little appetite for it outside if the usual hypochondriac and media circle.

There’s most definitely no false illusion this time “we are all in it together “ or any of the nauseating meaningless hollow rubbish.

why would and should they be working on a charitable basis?
they are qualified professionals, they are working for the government and their work is about public health and nothing more.

polesheep wrote: »

Calling someone a nutcase is not calling them out. Why didn't he refute what was being said?

no it's calling them out and calling them what they are, which is even better.
he likely realised he would be wasting his time refuting the points as those people don't listen and don't do facts.
you can bring a horse to water and all that.

froog

CalamariFritti wrote: »

We also know that confirmed cases and people who came in contact with this virus are two vastly different numbers.

In the absence of any real effort (at least here in Ireland) to get to better numbers these are the only numbers we have.

One number is a number we know for sure cannot be correct. Because there is not a hope in hell we caught every single positive. Even the most avid deadly-covid advocate won't deny this.

The other number is the best we know. Also probably not 100% accurate. But it also comes close to what we recorded in Ireland over the last few months and we know for sure we're still not catching every single positive. The accurate number - if we will ever know it - is most likely even lower than this.

You will argue that I'm biased, that I will believe the number I want to believe. And you're probably right. But it's not because I want to go for a pint, I truly believe it to be a more accurate number than the 3%.

I mean come on, hand on heart, do you believe that 3% of the infected will die from covid?

As i pointed out earlier the best number we have right now is 0.6%. Thats the current number offered by both fauci and mike ryan from the WHO.

CalamariFritti

normanoffside wrote: »

I honestly though that after yesterday's step down, the lest the government would be doing is to keep Dr T off the telly.

No such luck.

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1318535609489805313

I'm not a covid denier. I don't think its over and open up and let it fly or anything. But I do believe the CMO should have been fired two weeks ago.

CalamariFritti

froog wrote: »

As i pointed out earlier the best number we have right now is 0 6%. Thats the current number offeted by both fauci and mike ryan from the WHO.

So how do you explain the paper I linked?

paw patrol

Penfailed wrote: »

What difference does it make. If you take Covid out of the equation, they wouldn't be dead.

you can't say that.
the people who died in a car crash would still have died (for example, cos we can play this all day)

They stated this to the dail committee adding that the coroner would readjust the number in due course.
we also know those figures are driving public policy now, the coroner won't rule for ages by which time covid is gone.

perrito caliente

Penfailed wrote: »

What difference does it make? If you take Covid out of the equation, they wouldn't be dead.

Yes they would.

RoryMac

Penfailed wrote: »

What difference does it make. If you take Covid out of the equation, they wouldn't be dead.

What all of them?

None died from other causes, old age, heart attack, falls or a host of other reasons elderly people pass away??

Some claim to say that all would be still alive, I'd love to see the supporting research

Strumms

rusty cole wrote: »

so did it later transpire the kid had covid? confirmed with a test so?
Also wtf! if that's the case, why are so many accepting of kids being low to no risk, you yourself just in the above say a child was able to pass this on in 90mins even having been isolated and the parent called. your cousin still picked it up?? doesn't that run completely contrary to why kids now walk around indoors without masks?

Baffling story on so many levels

Baffling ? Kids can contract covid, pass it on too.

The kid was isolated from other children yes, but couldn’t have been locked in a room unsupervised.... needed supervision.

Yes the kid had it. Was diagnosed with it.

TheCitizen

This thread sounds like it’s overrun with that anti mask mob that go around shouting RTÉ is Fake News etc. Trump like slogans. Bunch of cranks and weirdo wingnuts

froog

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So how do you explain the paper I linked?

It's one guys meta analysis of seroprevalence studies which we know can be quite innacurate. He also references one of his own studies in his meta analysis, a study he was previously criticised for.

Above all though, i cant think of two better sources of covid information than fauci and mike ryan, who estimate its 0.6.

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

What difference does it make? If you take Covid out of the equation, they wouldn't be dead.

But we know that the upper respiratory tract infections are among the commonest causes of death for the elderly in the world. A person in their 80s vulnerable to a UTRI could be taken off by any of them.

charlie14

growleaves wrote: »

As indeed it must be since they can't test every asymptomatic person in the world and indeed every IFR from history is also estimated.

Which is why we read things like:

Black Death 20-60% death rate; and

Spanish flu between 18-100 million dead

The 3% is not an estimate. It is the percentage of confirmed cases that subsequently passed due to Covid-19.
Estimates on the number of people asymptomatic varies from 15% to 80%.
It`s basically guesswork.

end of the road

average_runner wrote: »

I think your missing the point and no one is answering it for the people, is as follows:


The cases are sky rocketing throughout Europe, higher than ever but death rate is low.


Around the world the cases are growing but the death rate is falling. Graphs are clearly showing this.


I still believe everything should be open and just enforcement from the gardai.

high cases can potentially bring other effects however, so we still have to bring them down even though deaths are now low thankfully.
i think enforcement alone would be enough if we had maybe 99 to 100% compliance with what we have, but unfortunately there is a big enough minority not abiding to cause a problem for the rest of us so opening fully with enforcement would likely not be enough unfortunately.

froog

TheCitizen wrote: »

This thread sounds like it’s overrun with that anti mask mob that go around shouting RTÉ is Fake News etc. Trump like slogans. Bunch of cranks and weirdo wingnuts

It is. Some of these people can barely string a proper sentence together. Its a waste of time trying to explain things to them really so im going to stick to the main thread from now on.

Strumms

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

every year at this time as the dark shadows are cast, along comes the black dog to so many, myself included.
This new lockdown will be final straw for many people.
But yet again, if you suffer from any mental illness you are cast away as an afterthought.

You are not cast away as an afterthought. How has that happened ?

You ARE though expected to muck in and adhere to restrictions, ‘jump in’ with everybody else and do your bit.

The Continental Op

TheCitizen wrote: »

This thread sounds like it’s overrun with that anti mask mob that go around shouting RTÉ is Fake News etc. Trump like slogans. Bunch of cranks and weirdo wingnuts

I always wear a mask and take all the obvious precautions but I still don't think level 5 will solve anything.

Don't know who actually originally said it but I keep thinking "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

CalamariFritti

TheCitizen wrote: »

This thread sounds like it’s overrun with that anti mask mob that go around shouting RTÉ is Fake News etc. Trump like slogans. Bunch of cranks and weirdo wingnuts

I will obviously only confirm what you think already. But RTE actually is fake news. Not in actual untruths but a very selective truth.

Rrrrrr2

dmakc wrote: »

I'm convinced that if RTE and the wider media didn't have such a hard-on for a lockdown and hysteria (i.e. ratings) we'd still be 3.5

They get an immense kick out of it- you can see the pleasure flow through when restrictions are announced and the pressure they put on to introduce them - that’s the prevailing narrative they all push . It’s very sad really as we all know it’s a failed strategy doing massive economic and societal harm to people’s lives. Just ask the WHO

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

The 3% is not an estimate. It is the percentage of confirmed cases that subsequently passed due to Covid-19.
Estimates on the number of people asymptomatic varies from 15% to 80%.
It`s basically guesswork.

Not only asymptomatic people were not confirmed cases.

Thousands had Symptoms here and all over the world back in March-May and could not get a test

Rrrrrr2

froog wrote: »

It is. Some of these people can barely string a proper sentence together. Its a waste of time trying to explain things to them really so im going to stick to the main thread from now on.

Yes it sounds like you prefer an echo chamber rather than a debate. Switch on Rte you’ll get that too

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Baffling ? Kids can contract covid, pass it on too.

The kid was isolated from other children yes, but couldn’t have been locked in a room unsupervised.... needed supervision.

Yes the kid had it. Was diagnosed with it.

Yes that's mad a child can be so virulent and yet kids will be heading to school around teachers etc like your cousin, who are vulnerable.

That's ****, yep I agree in that case the parent was a dope alright.

Penfailed

perrito caliente wrote: »

Yes they would.

You can't say that. It's an unknown.

One thing that is for sure - we all will die eventually.

CalamariFritti

charlie14 wrote: »

The 3% is not an estimate. It is the percentage of confirmed cases that subsequently passed due to Covid-19.
Estimates on the number of people asymptomatic varies from 15% to 80%.
It`s basically guesswork.

Dont you think then it should be one of our top priorities to take the guesswork out if it? Get to the real number? Don't you think its at the very least negligent not to make a real effort at getting to the single most important number in all of this?

TheCitizen

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Talk radio in england is brilliant- lone listening to it. We have nothing like it at all here just nodding dimwits

England is a basket case. Brexit is madness. If you’re putting forward their talk radio as brilliant and informative why are the English making an almighty mess of themselves. That tabloid media and talk radio you’re referring to doesn’t seem to be having a positive effect that’s for certain.

normanoffside

Here's a beauty from Tony back in June

https://www.buzz.ie/news/tony-holohan-says-full-lockdown-wont-be-necessary-if-second-covid-19-wave-hits-ireland-373680

Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan has said Ireland will not go into full lockdown if a second wave of coronavirus hits the country.
He said medical experts know much more about the virus than they did when restrictions were initially put in place in March.

Penfailed

RoryMac wrote: »

What all of them?

None died from other causes, old age, heart attack, falls or a host of other reasons elderly people pass away??

Some claim to say that all would be still alive, I'd love to see the supporting research

Not all of them, obviously. I was being somewhat facetious. Apologies.

growleaves

charlie14 wrote: »

The 3% is not an estimate. It is the percentage of confirmed cases that subsequently passed due to Covid-19.
Estimates on the number of people asymptomatic varies from 15% to 80%.
It`s basically guesswork.

We're not disagreeing technically.

The WHO's estimate puts covid-19 in the range of a normal respiratory virus in terms of mortality.

The statistics about median age of death puts covid-19 in the range of a normal respiratory virus in terms of morbidity.

None of the stories or statistics around Long Covid put the after-effects of covid outside of the range of a normal illness (yet).

Governments and medical authorities have only stuck to that 'we don't know' how deadly covid could be; while media have implied, inferred, gaslighted that a non-normative nightmare scenario is more likely than a normative respiratory illness scenario.

perrito caliente

froog wrote: »

It is. Some of these people can barely string a proper sentence together. Its a waste of time trying to explain things to them really so im going to stick to the main thread from now on.

Stick to your echo chamber and calling everyone you disagree with "morons" so. Just remember, the outside world is not Boards.ie
Most people are just trying to get on with their lives and are not half as judgmental as the cranks and curtain twitchers on here.

martingriff

paw patrol wrote: »

you can't say that.
the people who died in a car crash would still have died (for example, cos we can play this all day)

They stated this to the dail committee adding that the coroner would readjust the number in due course.
we also know those figures are driving public policy now, the coroner won't rule for ages by which time covid is gone.

Come on how many extra cases are in the death category due to car crash. As you say if they are they are taken off as soon as possible.

polesheep

end of the road wrote: »

yes, they are.





why would and should they be working on a charitable basis?
they are qualified professionals, they are working for the government and their work is about public health and nothing more.




no it's calling them out and calling them what they are, which is even better.
he likely realised he would be wasting his time refuting the points as those people don't listen and don't do facts.
you can bring a horse to water and all that.

He didn't call him out. And he was on air, he had a chance to reach the audience with his refutation.

JimToken

TheCitizen wrote: »

England is a basket case. Brexit is madness. If you’re putting forward their talk radio as brilliant and informative why are the English making an almighty mess of themselves. That tabloid media and talk radio you’re referring to doesn’t seem to be having a positive effect that’s for certain.

Talk radio is pure drivel


They merely surf the wave of opportunism endlessly

TheCitizen

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I will obviously only confirm what you think already. But RTE actually is fake news. Not in actual untruths but a very selective truth.

I’ve heard this conspiracy talk and you’d see it with the loons that are parading around the streets at the weekends. How is it in RTE’s interest or the rest of the MSM like Newstalk etc. to promote a lockdown “agenda” as the conspiracy mob on here would have it?

polesheep

Strumms wrote: »

You are not cast away as an afterthought. How has that happened ?

You ARE though expected to muck in and adhere to restrictions, ‘jump in’ with everybody else and do your bit.

You clearly have no understanding of depression.

charlie14

CalamariFritti wrote: »

We also know that confirmed cases and people who came in contact with this virus are two vastly different numbers.

In the absence of any real effort (at least here in Ireland) to get to better numbers these are the only numbers we have.

One number is a number we know for sure cannot be correct. Because there is not a hope in hell we caught every single positive. Even the most avid deadly-covid advocate won't deny this.

The other number is the best we know. Also probably not 100% accurate. But it also comes close to what we recorded in Ireland over the last few months and we know for sure we're still not catching every single positive. The accurate number - if we will ever know it - is most likely even lower than this.

You will argue that I'm biased, that I will believe the number I want to believe. And you're probably right. But it's not because I want to go for a pint, I truly believe it to be a more accurate number than the 3%.

I mean come on, hand on heart, do you believe that 3% of the infected will die from covid?

It`s nothing to do with what I believe or do not believe. Its the average percentage worldwide of confirmed cases who passed due to Covid-19.
It is a verifiable figure. Anything else is supposition and guesswork that will vary greatly depending on what you suppose or guess a figure is. Doing that makes statistics meaningless.

greengrass88

I assume the flu jab counts as a 'medical appointment ' , allowing you to travel wherever to get it?

Quantum Erasure

The Continental Op wrote: »

I always wear a mask and take all the obvious precautions but I still don't think level 5 will solve anything.

Don't know who actually originally said it but I keep thinking "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Einstein, wasn't it? ....

polesheep

TheCitizen wrote: »

England is a basket case. Brexit is madness. If you’re putting forward their talk radio as brilliant and informative why are the English making an almighty mess of themselves. That tabloid media and talk radio you’re referring to doesn’t seem to be having a positive effect that’s for certain.

Or having the effect you would like. Not that I'm in favour of Brexit or wishing to heap praise on the UK's handling of Covid, but the media should give equal opportunity to both sides of any debate. They do have much more robust media debates than anything we get here.

Elessar

I've held my nerve over all of the restrictions up to now but this 6 week rubbish is an absolute disgrace of the highest order. Not even Belgium with its case numbers is as restrictive or as long as ours. We are the North Korea of Europe. The economic toll and the toll this will have on people is immense and the government should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget we also have a hard Brexit to look forward to aswell for jobs and the economy.

And after the 6 weeks the cases will just rise again, for what? Another 6 weeks of soviet-like restrictions that nobody else in the EU would even contemplate? More lost jobs, more domestic abuse, more mortgage arrears. What happened to the 'we must learn to live with the virus' mantra that that government were signalling after the last lockdown? I'd give my own opinions on what should be done but to what end...the government won't give a sh*te and most Irish people will just lap up what the government give them.

An absolute travesty.