Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

average_runner

bush wrote: »

Do you talk to anyone who goes out in the real world to work or is it people who sit at home working? Because everyone at my work thinks its a complete overreaction. And I mean everyone I haven't talked to anyone who is scared about it anymore.

Are they on the frontline. As the nurses are saying the opposite right now.


I dont' want a lockdown but this is starting to spread in the community a little bit too much.


I know people here only wants level 5 when the deads are over a 100 a day, but that is too late then.

Kiwi in IE

funnydoggy wrote: »

I talk to probably a few hundred people a day from colleagues to customers and the general feeling is tired.

They'll go along with restrictions of course, but wanting more of them is not something they want, bar a small handful who are on the verge of wearing hazmat suits.

Remember all the heartwarming messages and videos that came out at the beginning of this - where are they now? The mere mention of "we're all in this together" is cringey now because we know it isn't true whatsoever. Even some government heads believe this or they wouldn't have went for a game of golf and a big meal.

The nation is tired and I think it's beginning to see the damage these blanket restrictions are doing.

Yup! The patronising ‘clapping for the essential workers’ bollocks made me want to vomit from the start. I’m a nurse, my husband is a nurse, we both kept working with schools and childcare facilities closed at the time when we weren’t allowed to have anyone outside the household mind our children. My husband went on permanent nights to facilitate this and his health been affected by that. We don’t want imbecilic clapping, we want schools to stay open and our children educated.

GooglePlus

funnydoggy wrote: »

I talk to probably a few hundred people a day from colleagues to customers and the general feeling is tired.

They'll go along with restrictions of course, but wanting more of them is not something they want, bar a small handful who are on the verge of wearing hazmat suits.

Remember all the heartwarming messages and videos that came out at the beginning of this - where are they now? The mere mention of "we're all in this together" is cringey now because we know it isn't true whatsoever. Even some government heads believe this or they wouldn't have went for a game of golf and a big meal.

The nation is tired and I think it's beginning to see the damage these blanket restrictions are doing.

Pandemics are **** alright.

average_runner

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Yup! The patronising ‘clapping for the essential workers’ bollocks made me want to vomit from the start. I’m a nurse, my husband is a nurse, we both kept working with schools and childcare facilities closed at the time when we weren’t allowed to have anyone outside the household mind our children. My husband went on permanent nights to facilitate this and his health been affected by that. We don’t want imbecilic clapping, we want schools to stay open and our children educated.

Do you think we need lockdown?

paw patrol

average_runner wrote: »

Are they on the frontline. As the nurses are saying the opposite right now.


I dont' want a lockdown but this is starting to spread in the community a little bit too much.


I know people here only wants level 5 when the deads are over a 100 a day, but that is too late then.

But surely nurses only see the bad cases - they don't see the asymptotic cases
my cousin is a paramedic she is panic-striken over the thing.
However my mate is a nurse and she is middle of the road over it , seems to realise she only sees the people badly effected.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Yup! The patronising ‘clapping for the essential workers’ bollocks made me want to vomit from the start. I’m a nurse, my husband is a nurse, we both kept working with schools and childcare facilities closed at the time when we weren’t allowed to have anyone outside the household mind our children. My husband went on permanent nights to facilitate this and his health been affected by that. We don’t want imbecilic clapping, we want schools to stay open and our children educated.

my mate the nurse was mortified by the whole thing esp the whole skip the queue thing at the supermarket for the heroic people.

Kiwi in IE

average_runner wrote: »

Do you think we need lockdown?

No! We have had one and it wasn’t effective. It is not viable to continue to do this unless we want to be worrying about other communicable diseases as well as the covid, like diphtheria, whooping cough, measles etc etc because the health system collapses due to lack of revenue and we can’t afford ordinary vaccines and medical treatments. I think those who are vulnerable should be fully and comprehensively supported to isolate to the extent that THEY CHOOSE!

average_runner

paw patrol wrote: »

But surely nurses only see the bad cases - they don't see the asymptotic cases
my cousin is a paramedic she is panic-striken over the thing.
However my mate is a nurse and she is middle of the road over it , seems to realise she only sees the people badly effected.



my mate the nurse was mortified by the whole thing esp the whole skip the queue thing at the supermarket for the heroic people.

Surely the nurses actually see how much the system is under pressure, something we don't see ?



Skip the queue was a great thing, i know doctor and nurses that worked 12 hour shifts in dealing with covid, last thing they need to do is stand in a queue after dealing with that.


Some people were mortified, don't skip queue if it bothers you that much, pretty simple.

Captain_Crash

paw patrol wrote: »

my mate the nurse was mortified by the whole thing esp the whole skip the queue thing at the supermarket for the heroic people.

There's two sides to that one. I've a few friends who are nurses but other than via social media I wouldn't see them much.

One of them was saying she works on the covid ward in her hospital and it was terrible and making it sound like a war zone ect...she was getting all sorts of praise from all angles and posting videos of things people were doing for her, it was cringy but she loved it.

Turns out her hospital didn't have a covid ward or any covid patients for that matter... and she's been silent since.

Kiwi in IE

paw patrol wrote: »

But surely nurses only see the bad cases - they don't see the asymptotic cases
my cousin is a paramedic she is panic-striken over the thing.
However my mate is a nurse and she is middle of the road over it , seems to realise she only sees the people badly effected.



my mate the nurse was mortified by the whole thing esp the whole skip the queue thing at the supermarket for the heroic people.

We are psychiatric nurses and our view is that the restrictions are what we should be frightened of and that this needs to stop!

average_runner

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

We are psychiatric nurses and our view is that the restrictions are what we should be frightened of and that this needs to stop!

So your saying let the virus run free and if it causes damage so be it?


Just trying to get a view from all ?


One of my parents just gone into a nursing home and I can see the staff are very worried about the virus, that they bring it in and cause damage.

Lord Spence

average_runner wrote: »

So your saying let the virus run free and if it causes damage so be it?


Just trying to get a view from all ?


One of my parents just gone into a nursing home and I can see the staff are very worried about the virus, that they bring it in and cause damage.

let it run free like we did in November, December , January and February when it is now proven it was in society and we had no lockdowns.

Are we even looking at evidence anymore if lockdowns work, have we checked other countries where lockdowns haven't or have worked? No I don't think we are or else nephet and government would come on TV and say oh its worked in Israel its worked in Korea etc, but no we will be put in lockdown as guess work and just so they as seeing as doing something.

Lockdowns at this stage will kill more people and ruin more lives then covid ever will, but the media don't want to tell you that because covid is making them massive viewers and money

Idbatterim

Holohans message of " if we could all get back to the solodarity shown in march" big difference now tony, there is no fear left for the masses, now we know what a mickey mouse virus it is and how poorly you and the idiots in government, sheltered from the real world have performed. The virus caused a big percentage of deaths in nursing home at the start, do to your and other " experts" phenomenal expertise. Do one at this stage! Responsible for the nursing home deaths and your now looking to close the offos earlier? Lol!

CruelSummer

CruelSummer wrote: »

Nobody is saying that here, they’re discussing the far reaching consequences of the Restrictions and their impacts on the population. ‘Conspiracy theorists’ is a tried and trusted dig at people wanting to discuss this but I’m afraid - we’re just discussing facts like the economy, jobs, other health impacts, etc.
Would you be able to answer my question while here re what protections have been put in place to protect nursing homes right now? That isn’t a lockdown? Dr Tony seems to think lockdown is the only way to protect them from Community Transmission. It’s a serious failure in policy and strategy to not have these places well resourced and protected.
Some people on here have been badly affected By the Restrictions, but thanks for stopping by with your insights.

If Trump, a germaphobe who is the most guarded man in the world, can get it, I don't see how we can keep it out of nursing homes. Higher community transmission means a higher probability.

Kiwi in IE

average_runner wrote: »

So your saying let the virus run free and if it causes damage so be it?


Just trying to get a view from all ?


One of my parents just gone into a nursing home and I can see the staff are very worried about the virus, that they bring it in and cause damage.

I think people need to be careful and take precautions. Those who are most at risk should be fully supported to isolate to the extent they choose to. The rest should carry on with economic and social activities while being careful. The lockdown didn’t work, it was only effective for the length of the lockdown. We cannot stay in lockdown without huge repercussions that will be worse than letting the virus run free with no precautions at all (which is not what I’m advocating). The revenue intake will not be able to keep up with the need to provide social services while we stay in lockdown if/until there is a vaccine. What will become of those who loose their jobs/businesses and cannot keep up with their rents/mortgages/living expenses? How are people supposed to live, eat and keep a roof over their and their families heads with no income? We are lucky in that we have been working and paid throughout, but as nurses, and like all essential workers who are largely public servants of some sort, we don’t generate tax, we are paid with tax. What happens when those earning the tax are banned from their economic activities? How long will we have a health system and social services last under these conditions? Seriously these questions need to be looked at and answered immediately.

Kiwi in IE

paw patrol wrote: »

my mate the nurse was mortified by the whole thing esp the whole skip the queue thing at the supermarket for the heroic people.

Hmmmmm I didn’t mind that one on my lunch break in the rain

Lord Spence

Idbatterim wrote: »

Holohans message of " if we could all get back to the solodarity shown in march" big dofference now tony, there is no fear oeft fir the masses, now we know what a mickey mouse virus it is and how poorly you and the idiots in government, sheltered from the real world have performed. The virus caused a big percentage of deaths in nursing home at the start, do to your and other " experts" phenomenal expertise. Do one at this stage! Responsible for the nursing home deaths and your now looking to close the offos earlier? Lol!

The sooner they stop making this thing about cases and more about deaths and available beds the sooner we can just get back to normal and deal with what's really important getting the government to invest more in beds in hospitals, not for covid patients but for everyone, the days of trolleys should be over and its a disgrace. Stop locking down the country and paying PUP and use that money investing in our health system instead. Were pissing money against a wall with these lockdowns.

Idbatterim

Lord Spence wrote: »

The sooner they stop making this thing about cases and more about deaths and available beds the sooner we can just get back to normal and deal with what's really important getting the government to invest more in beds in hospitals, not for covid patients but for everyone, the days of trolleys should be over and its a disgrace. Stop locking down the country and paying PUP and use that money investing in our health system instead. Were pissing money against a wall with these lockdowns.

How many billions were spemt throwing 350 a week at people made unemployed, who were working a few hours a week and earning sub e100? The handling of the entire thing, has been a farce. As you would expect here...

Many pubs closed during the summer when there virtually no cases and deaths, hospitality hotels etc the same. Crimimal !

TexasTornado

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

No! We have had one and it wasn’t effective. It is not viable to continue to do this unless we want to be worrying about other communicable diseases as well as the covid, like diphtheria, whooping cough, measles etc etc because the health system collapses due to lack of revenue and we can’t afford ordinary vaccines and medical treatments. I think those who are vulnerable should be fully and comprehensively supported to isolate to the extent that THEY CHOOSE!

The lockdown was effective. It's worrying you are supposedly a nurse and you can't see this.

facehugger99

Lord Spence wrote: »

The sooner they stop making this thing about cases and more about deaths and available beds the sooner we can just get back to normal and deal with what's really important getting the government to invest more in beds in hospitals, not for covid patients but for everyone, the days of trolleys should be over and its a disgrace. Stop locking down the country and paying PUP and use that money investing in our health system instead. Were pissing money against a wall with these lockdowns.

100%. The waste is absolutely galling.

Everyone was giving out yards about spending half a billion on a hospital to take care of sick children a year ago and we're now pissing €10's of billions away on a strategy based on an apocalyptical Covid-model that has already been shown to be completely wrong.

You can forget about additional investment in the health-service. They have gone too far down the rabbit-hole to admit their mistake at this stage. The next few years are going to see investments in health and services absolutely decimated.

Kiwi in IE

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think people need to be careful and take precautions. Those who are most at risk should be fully supported to isolate to the extent they choose to. The rest should carry on with economic and social activities while being careful. The lockdown didn’t work, it was only effective for the length of the lockdown. We cannot stay in lockdown without huge repercussions that will be worse than letting the virus run free with no precautions at all (which is not what I’m advocating). The revenue intake will not be able to keep up with the need to provide social services while we stay in lockdown if/until there is a vaccine. What will become of those who loose their jobs/businesses and cannot keep up with their rents/mortgages/living expenses? How are people supposed to live, eat and keep a roof over their and their families heads with no income? We are lucky in that we have been working and paid throughout, but as nurses, and like all essential workers who are largely public servants of some sort, we don’t generate tax, we are paid with tax. What happens when those earning the tax are banned from their economic activities? How long will we have a health system and social services last under these conditions? Seriously these questions need to be looked at and answered immediately.

Your posts make a huge amount of sense ! Thanks for your prespective especially from the mental health angle. I keep saying, there are more ways to die than Covid.

Lord Spence

TexasTornado wrote: »

The lockdown was effective. It's worrying you are supposedly a nurse and you can't see this.

Was it? effective in what way?

Kiwi in IE

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Yup! The patronising ‘clapping for the essential workers’ bollocks made me want to vomit from the start..

Not nice to read this type of thing to be honest and showing no appreciation for the fact people were thinking of healthcare workers etc. I know my family members in healthcare very much appreciated the support from the clapping, being able to skip the queue after a hard day, getting a free coffee etc. Just made things a little easier.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

No! We have had one and it wasn’t effective.

It was very much effective, we were down to very low virus numbers per day. The mistake was we came out of it too fast when there was still just enough of the virus around to catch hold again. If we kept the hard lockdown another month at least we would have got down to days without a case if this was coupled with closing ports and airports we would be in a vastly better position now.

Opening the schools was also a major mistake as is now clear, they should have waited until January at the earliest to see how things were going before considering opening school or universities (incl labs) and used online and remote learning to bridge the gap between now and then.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

It is not viable to continue to do this unless we want to be worrying about other communicable diseases as well as the covid, like diphtheria, whooping cough, measles etc etc because the health system collapses due to lack of revenue and we can’t afford ordinary vaccines and medical treatments. I think those who are vulnerable should be fully and comprehensively supported to isolate to the extent that THEY CHOOSE!

The consequences of locking down are better than the consequences of letting the virus really take hold and we end up like Italy or worse. I am very surprised to hear a healthcare worker talking like this as any I know (including a number of close family members nursers and one a doctor) are that this could get very very bad and fast of we don't get a handle on it and fast.

I have pointed out multiple time the multiple flaws with the "lets isolate the vulnerable" and why it just is not practical. There are far too many vulnerable and they are far too intertwined with society that it would be impossible to stop it spreading among the vulnerable if it is everywhere in the community.

Rrrrrr2

TexasTornado wrote: »

The lockdown was effective. It's worrying you are supposedly a nurse and you can't see this.

So "effective"..that it has to be repeated a few months later

Rrrrrr2

TexasTornado wrote: »

The lockdown was effective. It's worrying you are supposedly a nurse and you can't see this.

So "effective"..that it has to be repeated a few months later

Zebra3

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Yup! The patronising ‘clapping for the essential workers’ bollocks made me want to vomit from the start. I’m a nurse, my husband is a nurse, we both kept working with schools and childcare facilities closed at the time when we weren’t allowed to have anyone outside the household mind our children. My husband went on permanent nights to facilitate this and his health been affected by that. We don’t want imbecilic clapping, we want schools to stay open and our children educated.

You must understand that the clapping for essential workers was not about clapping for essential workers.

That sort of crap is about making those taking part feeling better for themselves so they can go on FB and feel like they're taking part in something.

I hope you didn't see the video of the gimps singing Ireland's Call......

Rrrrrr2

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

We are psychiatric nurses and our view is that the restrictions are what we should be frightened of and that this needs to stop!

Your profession is going to be overwhelmd soon with cases I'm sorry to say. But no doubt you know that and are seeing it first hand.

Rrrrrr2

Zebra3 wrote: »

You must understand that the clapping for essential workers was not about clapping for essential workers.

That sort of crap is about making those taking part feeling better for themselves so they can go on FB and feel like they're taking part in something.

I hope you didn't see the video of the gimps singing Ireland's Call......

That was virtue signalling in all its glory.

Lord Spence

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

It was very much effective, we were down to very low virus numbers per day. The mistake was we came out of it too fast when there was still just enough of the virus around to catch hold again. If we kept the hard lockdown another month at least we would have got down to days without a case if this was coupled with closing ports and airports we would be in a vastly better position now.

Opening the schools was also a major mistake as is now clear, they should have waited until January at the earliest to see how things were going before considering opening school or universities (incl labs) and used online and remote learning to bridge the gap between now and then.



The consequences of locking down are better than the consequences of letting the virus really take hold and we end up like Italy or worse. I am very surprised to hear a healthcare worker talking like this as any I know (including a number of close family members nursers and one a doctor) are that this could get very very bad and fast of we don't get a handle on it and fast.

I have pointed out multiple time the multiple flaws with the "lets isolate the vulnerable" and why it just is not practical. There are far too many vulnerable and they are far too intertwined with society that it would be impossible to stop it spreading among the vulnerable if it is everywhere in the community.

Closing down ports and airports , ahhh what about Northern Ireland, and what about imports and exports, have you even thought through this?

You can't kill a virus by hiding from it!

TexasTornado

Lord Spence wrote: »

Was it? effective in what way?

Saving lives.

Tenzor07

Lord Spence wrote: »

Was it? effective in what way?

The first Lockdown was very effective In:

• Destroying the economy
• Putting 100's of thousands on benefits
• breaking the social fabric of the country
• putting the nail in the coffin of aviation/hospitality/tourism/city center retail.
• Showing what an utter shambles of a Government and health service we truly have.
• Showing us that lockdowns don't work, we have 100's of cases a day.