Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

uli84

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think people need to be careful and take precautions. Those who are most at risk should be fully supported to isolate to the extent they choose to. The rest should carry on with economic and social activities while being careful. The lockdown didn’t work, it was only effective for the length of the lockdown. We cannot stay in lockdown without huge repercussions that will be worse than letting the virus run free with no precautions at all (which is not what I’m advocating). The revenue intake will not be able to keep up with the need to provide social services while we stay in lockdown if/until there is a vaccine. What will become of those who loose their jobs/businesses and cannot keep up with their rents/mortgages/living expenses? How are people supposed to live, eat and keep a roof over their and their families heads with no income? We are lucky in that we have been working and paid throughout, but as nurses, and like all essential workers who are largely public servants of some sort, we don’t generate tax, we are paid with tax. What happens when those earning the tax are banned from their economic activities? How long will we have a health system and social services last under these conditions? Seriously these questions need to be looked at and answered immediately.

I feel like I want to marry you

Jinglejangle69

TexasTornado wrote: »

Saving lives.

And probably killed lives from undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.

But those deaths aren't sexy enough are they?

We can't put that up on a chart everyday for the media to lap up.

Lord Spence

TexasTornado wrote: »

Saving lives.

Did it? so should we have lock down in flu seasons past to save those lives or are we just picking and choosing now?

And you have evidence that it saved lives? Not saying it didn't but lets be honest your just guessing.

Rrrrrr2

TexasTornado wrote: »

Saving lives.

A slight delay perhaps if giving you the benefit of the doubt...however we are now seeing that countries that had hard lockdowns (Spain, Belgium) are tracking deaths in excess of those that didn't go as far i.e. Sweden.
So we now have lots of data evidence to suggest Lockdowns don't save any lives (and cause greater problems elsewhere).

dalyboy

TexasTornado wrote: »

Saving lives.

How many lives are going to be ultimately lost as a direct impact of the “saving lives” lock down strategy?

average_runner

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think people need to be careful and take precautions. Those who are most at risk should be fully supported to isolate to the extent they choose to. The rest should carry on with economic and social activities while being careful. The lockdown didn’t work, it was only effective for the length of the lockdown. We cannot stay in lockdown without huge repercussions that will be worse than letting the virus run free with no precautions at all (which is not what I’m advocating). The revenue intake will not be able to keep up with the need to provide social services while we stay in lockdown if/until there is a vaccine. What will become of those who loose their jobs/businesses and cannot keep up with their rents/mortgages/living expenses? How are people supposed to live, eat and keep a roof over their and their families heads with no income? We are lucky in that we have been working and paid throughout, but as nurses, and like all essential workers who are largely public servants of some sort, we don’t generate tax, we are paid with tax. What happens when those earning the tax are banned from their economic activities? How long will we have a health system and social services last under these conditions? Seriously these questions need to be looked at and answered immediately.

Good points and I wasn't trying to put you down.


See the UK are claiming a vaccine will be rolled out in November to vulnerable parts of society, if this is true its a major game changer

Kiwi in IE

TexasTornado wrote: »

The lockdown was effective. It's worrying you are supposedly a nurse and you can't see this.

I’m not ‘supposedly a nurse’ I am a nurse. Would you like to see my NMBI papers? The lockdown was effective while we were in lockdown. That is my point. We cannot stay in lockdown until when/if an effective vaccine is produced. Do you suggest that we do?.If a vaccine is 2 years away do you suggest we stay in lockdown until then? What do you think will be the implications for every single health, social and societal issue other than the covid? What do you think society after years or even months of lockdown look like? People desperately need to start looking at the bigger picture than just this virus.

Micky 32

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

As long as it takes to beat this virus. People I’m talking to outside of boards are almost all very much behind Tony and NPHET, .

Which country are you residing in? I’m on the road everyday ( iincluding other counties) deal with the public everyday and i’m getting a different picture than the one you’re trying to paint. The public are getting fed up.

dalyboy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And probably killed lives from undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.

But those deaths aren't sexy enough are they?

We can't put that up on a chart everyday for the media to lap up.

Sadly cancer and heart disease are not infectious so we can’t beat people into submission and guilt on those illnesses

Jinglejangle69

dalyboy wrote: »

Sadly cancer and heart disease are not infectious so we can’t beat people into submission and guilt on those illnesses

Oh so them people should be sacrificed first because the disease they die of isn't covid?????

Lord Spence

Lord Spence wrote: »

Closing down ports and airports , ahhh what about Northern Ireland, and what about imports and exports, have you even thought through this?

You can't kill a virus by hiding from it!

Imports and exports can continue with isolation and testing for any truck driver etc before entering the country - proven covid free before entering basically.

Northern Ireland is the biggest challenge but we have an army so they might as well do something rather than sitting in their barracks.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The first Lockdown was very effective In:

• Destroying the economy
• Putting 100's of thousands on benefits
• breaking the social fabric of the country
• putting the nail in the coffin of aviation/hospitality/tourism/city center retail.
• Showing what an utter shambles of a Government and health service we truly have.
• Showing us that lockdowns don't work, we have 100's of cases a day.

A great example of the total and utter cluelessness circulating around this thread. The lockdown was a massive success, we got from over 1000 cases and in the region of 100's of deaths per day down to single digit cases and no deaths many days. We came out of it too early, like a camp fire that's almost out and walk away and leave it - next thing we have a forrest fire...

Kiwi in IE

average_runner wrote: »

Good points and I wasn't trying to put you down.


See the UK are claiming a vaccine will be rolled out in November to vulnerable parts of society, if this is true its a major game changer

No I understand that you were just looking for peoples views, I didn’t take your questions as a put down at all. If we have one in November then great, we can probably endure this until then, but if we are years away it’s not feasible.

Micky 32

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

As long as it takes to beat this virus. People I’m talking to outside of boards are almost all very much behind Tony and NPHET, .

Which country are you residing in? I’m on the road everyday and deal with the public everyday and i’m getting a different picture than the one you’re trying to paint. The public are getting fed up.

facehugger99

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Not nice to read this type of thing to be honest and showing no appreciation for the fact people were thinking of healthcare workers etc.

I think we're missing the bigger picture.

What about all the people who feel their meaningless, self-centered virtue-signaling wasn't properly appreciated?

Why have they been forgotten?

average_runner

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

No I understand that you were just looking for peoples views, I didn’t take your questions as a put down at all. If we have one in November then great, we can probably endure this until then, but if we are years away it’s not feasible.

If we are years away then its open the shop right up.

Zebra3

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Northern Ireland is the biggest challenge but we have an army so they might as well do something rather than sitting in their barracks.

You want a lockdown.

But you also want the army out?

Are the army immune to covid?

Penfailed

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Northern Ireland is the biggest challenge but we have an army so they might as well do something rather than sitting in their barracks.

That's laughable. What about the tens of thousands of people who live on one side and work on the other?

paw patrol

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

A great example of the total and utter cluelessness circulating around this thread. The lockdown was a massive success, we got from over 1000 cases and in the region of 100's of deaths per day down to single digit cases and no deaths many days. We came out of it too early, like a camp fire that's almost out and walk away and leave it - next thing we have a forrest fire...

in april on one day we had 77 deaths announced. that was a singular peak of death due to covid and as admitted by Leo that included probable and possible cases. The next highest day also in April was 59.


Your numbers are just lies. You are just one big fat lie yourself.

knock yourself out

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

You want a lockdown.

But you also want the army out?

Are the army immune to covid?

I don't want a lockdown, I feel it is 100% necessary to try curb the spread of the virus. The army can group isolate and be tested regularly, PPE and distance when dealing with the public (which would be mostly outdoors etc).

People love making excuses rather than actually doing whats needed.

Rrrrrr2

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I don't want a lockdown, I feel it is 100% necessary to try curb the spread of the virus. The army can group isolate and be tested regularly, PPE and distance when dealing with the public (which would be mostly outdoors etc).

People love making excuses rather than actually doing whats needed.

Nothing will curb the spread of a virus like C19- why can't you accept this? You can't play god with a virus once it takes hold. It's never been done without a vaccine.
Lockdowns simply don't work, another one won't work, nor will another after that.

Kiwi in IE

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Your profession is going to be overwhelmd soon with cases I'm sorry to say. But no doubt you know that and are seeing it first hand.

I’m a mental health nurse. My profession is already being overrun by depression, anxiety and suicide.

_Kaiser_

TexasTornado wrote: »

Saving lives.

That's a soundbite, not a fact

Kiwi in IE

average_runner wrote: »

If we are years away then its open the shop right up.

What do you suggest? Stay in lockdown until the revenue runs out?

Rrrrrr2

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

What do you suggest? Stay in lockdown until the revenue runs out?

It already has! They had to raid the rainy piggy bank the other day to shore up the shortfall. Won't last pissing time. What then?

Micky 32

TexasTornado wrote: »

The lockdown was effective. It's worrying you are supposedly a nurse and you can't see this.

The problem is that you ‘can’t see’ that lockdowns are not sustainable in the longterm.

Tenzor07

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Imports and exports can continue with isolation and testing for any truck driver etc before entering the country - proven covid free before entering basically.

A great example of the total and utter cluelessness circulating around this thread. The lockdown was a massive success, we got from over 1000 cases and in the region of 100's of deaths per day down to single digit cases and no deaths many days. We came out of it too early, like a camp fire that's almost out and walk away and leave it - next thing we have a forrest fire...

A great example of the cluelessness on how the transport of goods in and out of this state operate, each truck driver gets a limited amount of time to get his truck out of port and to the destination, a perfect example of this was shown at the UK border where after Brexit the additional delays will cause 10km tailbacks and many just in time delivery companies will now go out of business. Perishable foods and medicine delivery will be severely impacted.

On an Island that depends on the free flow of trade in and out of the state any delays would cause absolute chaos.
Checking Truck drivers hasn't been needed all through this.

• Who is going to pay for all this testing?
• Who will staff and administer this?
• Will the staff required at the ports be taken from other areas such as hospitals and HSE clinics at a time when they are short staffed?
• Has it been proven that truck drivers are a major source of causing the spread?

Came out of Lockdown too early? Are you truly delusional or something?

• Pubs closed since March
• Only country in Europe where Bars/restaurants are closed.
• Office workers at home since March
• Public transport at 50% capacity.
• No Tourists since March.
• Multiple business closures in the past few months
• In danger of having only 1 Airport operational on the Island.

The only thing that's different between now and the start of the Lockdown are the Schools being opened...

facehugger99

Saying lockdowns are effective is like saying burning down a house is an effective way to get rid of a mouse.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

No I understand that you were just looking for peoples views, I didn’t take your questions as a put down at all. If we have one in November then great, we can probably endure this until then, but if we are years away it’s not feasible.

I think June 21 might be more realistic than November at least for any kind of mass program.

Small supplies for vulnerable people night be done before that.

To be honest once the most vulnerable are vaccinated I think we can really reduce restrictions as we will be shielded from a lot of deaths.

Stormyteacup

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I don't want a lockdown, I feel it is 100% necessary to try curb the spread of the virus. The army can group isolate and be tested regularly, PPE and distance when dealing with the public (which would be mostly outdoors etc).

People love making excuses rather than actually doing whats needed.

Yes like Tony and the government making excuses as to why we can’t isolate the vulnerable.

Because it’s too much work and planning for them and HSE, and they’d rather take the easier short term solution of putting those who contribute least income tax revenue out of work. Forgetting of course that all those out of work would previously have spent their money on socialising, shopping, travelling, personal grooming and generally keeping an economy prosperous, adding money to the pot that runs, among other things, a health system that thousands of people need to avail of for reasons other than Covid.

Seriously - I’ve yet to see one good argument against implementing measures to protect the vulnerable only, other than ‘its too difficult’. Why is it? We’re already most of the way there in the general population.

Lazy and incompetent leadership has us in this position - not Covid.

bucketybuck

average_runner wrote: »

See the UK are claiming a vaccine will be rolled out in November to vulnerable parts of society, if this is true its a major game changer

But its not true, is it. You are going to hear stories like this every month or so because they are nothing more than a carrot on a stick.

Its a deflection tactic, give the masses something to look forward to, let them think the finish line is in sight and we can all be in this together for one last push... :rolleyes:

There has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus. There has never been a vaccine developed in the timescale we are talking about. There may be a vaccine in a few years but right now it is nothing but a pipedream and people would be better served realising that instead of making bad decisions based on bad information.