Would you be in favor of covid-19 fines in Ireland?

Hego Damask

No, the whole thing is ridicolous, the f*cking illness is a glorified flu and has a similar death rate (especially in the last few months)
This virus is going nowhere , what do people want ? to be locked up for decades ?

Time to learn to live with it .

Strumms

Hego Damask wrote: »

No, the whole thing is ridicolous, the f*cking illness is a glorified flu and has a similar death rate (especially in the last few months)
This virus is going nowhere , what do people want ? to be locked up for decades ?

Time to learn to live with it .

The flu kills a couple of hundred people every year.

Covid so far 1817.

Time to learn to live with it, and live with restrictions. Also the legal and monetary consequences of breaking them. Sooner the better.

saabsaab

Strumms wrote: »

The flu kills a couple of hundred people every year.

Covid so far 1817.

Time to learn to live with it, and live with restrictions. Also the legal and monetary consequences of breaking them. Sooner the better.

Probably a vaccine or treatment early next year. Just need to wait a bit longer.

screamer

I really don’t get this impossibility over denying entry when masks are not worn. Head out to your local pool and you’ll see no hat no swim and if you want to get in, you buy and wear a hat. This is no different, there’s just no will to make people comply with the rules.

Hego Damask

Strumms wrote: »

The flu kills a couple of hundred people every year.

Covid so far 1817.

Time to learn to live with it, and live with restrictions. Also the legal and monetary consequences of breaking them. Sooner the better.

It will be interesting to see the rates not including the first wave, the first wave hit us bad when we didn't really have treatment for it, treatment now has really improved and death rates have really fallen.

I would trust these doctors ...

https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/29/open-letter-belgian-healthcare-workers-call-for-end-to-lockdown/


Now I realise one would find other experts that would say the opposite, but I find it hard to believe that letter above is bollocks.

Hego Damask

Hego Damask wrote: »

No, the whole thing is ridicolous, the f*cking illness is a glorified flu and has a similar death rate (especially in the last few months)
This virus is going nowhere , what do people want ? to be locked up for decades ?

Time to learn to live with it .

No, people don't want to be locked up. Quite the opposite.

But unfortunately, due to the irresponsible behaviour of the minority who refuse to comply with what is asked of them to minimise transmission of a deadly virus - wear a mask, socially distance, minimise contacts, (which does not mean no socialising) - many high risk / very high risk feel they have no other option but to lock themselves up. Do you seriously believe that is what they want to do?

It's not much of a choice if you are high/very high risk. I'd love nothing more than a nice long browse around a few shops without having to worry if the person next too me is too close. I'd like to meet up with my family for a nice carvery. I would actually love to go to work in the office on Monday for a change of scenery! I haven't seen a single work colleague since March except via Zoom.

You think anyone actually wants to live like this? Cop on. NO one wants this.

The very people who are shouting the loudest about "learning to live with it" - those who like to pretend Covid is "just a flu" and who refuse to comply with the restrictions or modify their own behaviour in any way, are the very people who are prolonging this ordeal for everyone.

Strumms

saabsaab wrote: »

Probably a vaccine or treatment early next year. Just need to wait a bit longer.

Hope you are right saab saab, though I wouldn’t want to be a barman the first night of reopening...

weldoninhio

Mallory Great Woodpecker wrote: »

What utter sh1te.

I assume you are against blue badges for parking since there is no difference to what I proposed.

Blue badge goes on a car, not a person.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the student in Centra, all they have to do is refuse service and refer to the manager on duty. If the unmasked person then refuses to show proof of exemption, put on a mask, or leave, then its time to call the Gardai.

Really, is NOT wearing a mask, worth so much hassle?

Refuse service due to the person having a disability which prevents them from wearing a mask? Good luck in court with that one.

weldoninhio

Strumms wrote: »

“Hi sir / madam, due to covid it’s the policy of the store that all staff, contractors and customers will wear a face covering properly for the entire duration of their time inside the store as well as adhering to social distancing. If you have a genuine medical reason as diagnosed by a relevant healthcare professional as to why you cannot wear a mask, I’d ask that you can provide the relevant paperwork in order for us to verify and note details for health / potential contact tracing reasons.”

Paperwork is provided...

“Thanks, just a polite reminder while shopping without your mask that you are to maintain one meter distance at all times from staff and fellow customers.

Another court case.

owlbethere

Some isolation breakers:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/a-family-who-were-supposed-to-be-isolating-were-out-calling-taxis-shopping-with-not-even-a-mask-on-gps-see-worrying-trends-at-ground-level-39603738.html

This is why we need fines. Or some quarantine centres.

weldoninhio

owlbethere wrote: »

Some isolation breakers:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/a-family-who-were-supposed-to-be-isolating-were-out-calling-taxis-shopping-with-not-even-a-mask-on-gps-see-worrying-trends-at-ground-level-39603738.html

This is why we need fines. Or some quarantine centres.

Anecdotal evidence. The best kind of evidence.

JasonStatham

Definitely and it should hit the pocket of the parents whose children are causing this mess.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Blue badge goes on a car, not a person.

The blue badge is associated with the person, if they move car they bring it with them it’s very much associated with the person.

Stop making stupid excuses.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Refuse service due to the person having a disability which prevents them from wearing a mask? Good luck in court with that one.

No it wouldn’t. You do realise it’s the law, it’s like saying a shop will end up in court for agism for refusing a person with no ID drink. You are talking rubbish. Plenty of shops are stopping mon mask wearers from entering.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence. The best kind of evidence.

This is a pandemic, all it takes is a small number to ignore the rules and they can massively contribute to the spread and we know there is a lot more than a few breaking rules. Look we know you are a restriction ignorer so stop trying to deny others are doing the same. Disgraceful really that a person would have such disregard for their fellow citizens.

AUDI20

weldoninhio wrote: »

Another court case.

Why?

Strumms

weldoninhio wrote: »

Another court case.

Yes, why ? Quite simply no court case.

You wouldn’t see a supermarket allow some person wandering around a store without clothes. Health reasons being primary.

Nor should they allow somebody wander around without a mask.

Strumms

weldoninhio wrote: »

Blue badge goes on a car, not a person.

Blue badge goes WITH the person / user into whatever vehicle they are in.

The badge doesn’t contain a registration number, it is not associated with a car / vehicle , it is associated with the person needing it.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/traffic_and_parking/disabled_persons_parking_card.html

The same in special circumstances ‘could’ be used for people unable to wear a mask, but they are so few..it’s easier they just avail of the supermarket to deliver or a friend / family member to go shopping. Safer too. The exemption cards won’t be handed out like sweeties to the grubby selfish ‘anti maskers’

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you're over-thinking it.

It's already been pointed out that shops already "police" the sale of alcohol and cigarettes as it is now. Asking a customer to show proof of exemption to wear a mask in that setting is not so different to asking them to show proof of age to buy alcohol or cigarettes.

It's not just different, it's the exact opposite.

Shops don't "police" the sale of alcohol or cigarettes.
Shops obey laws holding them liable for selling alcohol or cigarettes to minors or outside permitted hours.

And I could be wrong, but I don't think there's actually a law against somebody underage buying alcohol. I've certainly never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. The onus is entirely on the seller.

Masks are the exact opposite. There's a law requiring people to wear masks in shops. There's no law requiring shops to refuse entry to people not wearing masks.

Also, laws on alcohol and tobacco are also well established and generally agreed with by everyone. It's pretty straightforward.
The masks thing is a highly volatile issue at the moment with a large number of angry idiots opposed to it. There's likely to be a lot more confrontation involved for shop staff trying to enforce it.

If someone employed to work in a shop is not up to the task of doing what is needed to remain within the law (i.e. not selling cigarettes or alcohol to minors) then maybe their employer needs to re-consider who they are hiring more carefully - and hire security.

Yes , as far as alcohol and cigarettes go. But if you're somehow intending that to apply to masks too, that's just nonsense.
Again, shops aren't the ones breaking the law - people who don't wear masks are.
If somebody walked in the door of the shop, produced a gun, and started murdering people, would you expect the shop staff to disarm them? And hold the shop responsible for the murders?

Presumably you also wouldn't mind if all the prices in your local shop went up across the board overnight, to pay for the extra security they should be hirin?

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Blue badge goes on a car, not a person.

Actually, a blue badge is tied to a person, not a car.

It can be used in any vehicle to facilitate the transport person with the disability it is assigned for.

It is an offence to use a blue badge parking space if it is not for the benefit of the person it is assigned to.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Refuse service due to the person having a disability which prevents them from wearing a mask? Good luck in court with that one.

The onus is on the person to show they are exempt.

I can't rock up and park in a disability spot without my badge and then when the car is clamped turn around and take the clampers to court because I didn't show proof that I have a disability.

Enough of this nonsense.

Strumms

Shops will be proactive in enforcing it.

They have a duty of care related to their staff as well as customers.

Imagine if XX supermarket had 6 staff go down with covid. That became public, that supermarket would become a ghost town... some people shopping at XX supermarket in another location would instead start being loyal to the competition as they are wondering if the overall health and safety as relates to covid is being taken seriously at XX.

If a 17 year old, walks into a pub, orders a Guinness, is served a Guinness, while halfway through it a Garda walks in... the pub are in trouble. Not the kid.

Same scenario applies to the masks. The shop just refuses entry to non mask wearers.

If somebody wears one to gain entry but removes it during shopping, it’s noted by staff who advise them that unless the mask is worn they will be instructed to leave. They don’t wear , security get involved who physically prevent them from continuing to shop.

I’ve asked / instructed a person to leave a reception area for being abusive to a colleague. Simply refused to enter into dialogue, transaction ... if they had refused to leave , Gardai are / would be called.

In the mask scenario....“Person wore a mask to gain entry, removed it, refused to wear when requested to do so, as I result we could no longer facilitate their shopping experience because of health and safety situation, asked to leave, they won’t”

weldoninhio

Strumms wrote: »

Yes, why ? Quite simply no court case.

You wouldn’t see a supermarket allow some person wandering around a store without clothes. Health reasons being primary.

Nor should they allow somebody wander around without a mask.

Discrimination based on a disability.

weldoninhio

Mallory Great Woodpecker wrote: »

The blue badge is associated with the person, if they move car they bring it with them it’s very much associated with the person.

Stop making stupid excuses.



No it wouldn’t. You do realise it’s the law, it’s like saying a shop will end up in court for agism for refusing a person with no ID drink. You are talking rubbish. Plenty of shops are stopping mon mask wearers from entering.



This is a pandemic, all it takes is a small number to ignore the rules and they can massively contribute to the spread and we know there is a lot more than a few breaking rules. Look we know you are a restriction ignorer so stop trying to deny others are doing the same. Disgraceful really that a person would have such disregard for their fellow citizens.

The law has exemptions. Discrimination against people due to a disability is against the law.

Strumms

weldoninhio wrote: »

Discrimination based on a disability.

Nope. Not in this case. They are not being discriminated against. . Look up the legal definition of discrimination. Also by that logic, YOUR logic somebody with a genuine disability shouldn’t have to or be expected to stop at red lights, shouldn’t have to or be expected not to steal, shouldn’t have to be or expected not to assault somebody.

Same as somebody who wants to drive a car but they don’t meet the health criteria and are refused a license. They don’t have a hope of convincing a judge that they should be given one, based on ‘disability discrimination’ because if you CANT safely drive and are a danger to others because of illness or disability you just don’t drive.

If you are a potential danger to people in a shop, because you won’t wear your mask, you simply don’t shop..

pjohnson

weldoninhio wrote: »

Discrimination based on a disability.

Repeating it doesnt make it true.

landofthetree

I'd support it.

But it wont work as the mob wont want it.

Its mob rule in Ireland and political parties always give into the mob.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The onus is on the person to show they are exempt.

I can't rock up and park in a disability spot without my badge and then when the car is clamped turn around and take the clampers to court because I didn't show proof that I have a disability.

Enough of this nonsense.

You are the only one talking nonsense. The ignorance is the sentence “The onus is on the person to show they are exempt.“ is breathtaking.

weldoninhio

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Not in this case. They are not being discriminated against. . Look up the legal definition of discrimination. Also by that logic, YOUR logic somebody with a genuine disability shouldn’t have to or be expected to stop at red lights, shouldn’t have to or be expected not to steal, shouldn’t have to be or expected not to assault somebody.

Same as somebody who wants to drive a car but they don’t meet the health criteria and are refused a license. They don’t have a hope of convincing a judge that they should be given one, based on ‘disability discrimination’ because if you CANT safely drive and are a danger to others because of illness or disability you just don’t drive.

If you are a potential danger to people in a shop, because you won’t wear your mask, you simply don’t shop..

What are you talking about? How is obeying the same traffic laws, the same larceny laws discrimination?? A disabled person is EXEMPT BY LAW from wearing a mask.

xhomelezz

weldoninhio wrote: »

What are you talking about? How is obeying the same traffic laws, the same larceny laws discrimination?? A disabled person is EXEMPT BY LAW from wearing a mask.

So any disabled person is exempt? I could have one leg, so being disabled and it wouldn't give me a reason not to wear one.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

The law has exemptions. Discrimination against people due to a disability is against the law.

Yes there are exemptions, but again, the onus is on the disabled person to show they are exempt.

Given my example before of my blue badge already.

I can't park in a wheelchair space without displaying my badge and them claim I'm being discriminated against on grounds of disability, if I am clamped.

I'd love to see someone try to take that case to court!

They'd be laughed out of it.