Would you be in favor of covid-19 fines in Ireland?

Tenzor07

Mallory Great Woodpecker wrote: »

Nope wasn’t on holidays, nor was I planning on going even prior to covid.

That one went over your head I see....

Hellrazer

pgj2015 wrote: »

fines for people not wearing masks in supermarkets etc very big fines for anyone who has house parties etc. fines for people travelling outside their county for non essential travel. im baffled as to why they have not been introduced.

I would be all in favour of fines but only for people not wearing masks when required.
I was in Maynooth Lidl on Sunday and I counted at least 10 people with no masks.
I asked the manager and he told me it was nothing to do with him and to basically go away.

I was in Italy in August and the difference is night and day. No mask - no entry into anywhere. Fines if you dont wear one. And they have less cases than us.
You even have to wear a mask going to your table in a pub / restaurant. Going to to the toilet its mask on and off when you get back to your table.

Italy introduced mandatory mask wearing sooner than most other countries in Europe and they are well down the charts at 46 cases per 100000 today.

I firmly believe that if we got mask wearing to a level similar to Italys ie fines for not wearing them,making shops responsible for their customers not wearing them we could live quite easily with covid and have a reasonably open society.

FintanMcluskey

Ohmeha wrote: »

Democracy? Should we stop all fines for speeding, littering, tv licence evasion etc.?

There is a magnitude of difference between what you have listed above and the introduction of anti socialising fines to prevent the spread of a respitory illness.

The current restrictions will likely seperate families for Christmas, and you want fines to ensure that happens??

If you cant grasp the dangers of the introduction of such I cant explain it for you.

But I will ask that once introduced, at what point is it removed?

circadian

keithb93 wrote: »

The fact that people are actually suggesting that we should be fined for leaving the county for non essential reasons, i don't think im too far off the mark. Same people that would call for level 5 restrictions for the whole country no doubt.

Why are the pubs closed again? Of course people will have house parties when there is nowhere else to enjoy themselves. Alternatives must be provided.

If ye are happy to sit at home and hide for the next 9 months then so be it but don't expect me to.

So, you're part of the problem then? No one is being asked to stay at home and hide. People are being asked to use some common sense. Defying common sense, for example going to house parties or other gatherings means that more draconian measures become more likely as the virus spreads exponentially.

How hard is this to understand? I feel like I'm screaming into the void sometimes.

bocaman

No mask, no entry. Simple as.

I am in favour of fines for noncompliance especially on a Saturday afternoon in Dublin when the far right traitors come out to play.

893bet

893bet wrote: »

The issue in the meat factory is not really the work place. Rather the foreign staff they employ all typically live together also, often in larger than expected numbers. When an outbreak occurs then it spread quickly.

The virus could not pick a more idyllic environment than a meat factory.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The virus could not pick a more idyllic environment than a meat factory.

Well it did enter Trump so its obviously not put off by much....

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

I would be all in favour of fines but only for people not wearing masks when required.
I was in Maynooth Lidl on Sunday and I counted at least 10 people with no masks.
I asked the manager and he told me it was nothing to do with him and to basically go away.

I was in Italy in August and the difference is night and day. No mask - no entry into anywhere. Fines if you dont wear one. And they have less cases than us.
You even have to wear a mask going to your table in a pub / restaurant. Going to to the toilet its mask on and off when you get back to your table.

Italy introduced mandatory mask wearing sooner than most other countries in Europe and they are well down the charts at 46 cases per 100000 today.

I firmly believe that if we got mask wearing to a level similar to Italys ie fines for not wearing them,making shops responsible for their customers not wearing them we could live quite easily with covid and have a reasonably open society.

I must say, the level of compliance in Waterford is very high.

Very rare to see someone with no mask in the supermarket/indoors.

I was out for a meal a couple of weeks ago and people put on their mask whenever they got up from their table.

Probably explains why the overall infection rate in Waterford has been low. Excellent really aside from that recent meat factory linked outbreak.

Hellrazer

Deleted User wrote: »

I must say, the level of compliance in Waterford is very high.

Very rare to see someone with no mask in the supermarket/indoors.

I was out for a meal a couple of weeks ago and people put on their mask whenever they got up from their table.

Probably explains why the overall infection rate in Waterford has been low. Excellent really aside from that recent meat factory linked outbreak.

Id love to see a study done - mask wearing v number of cases broken down by county.
It would be interesting to see if theres any relation.

Tenzor07

bocaman wrote: »

No mask, no entry. Simple as.

I am in favour of fines for noncompliance especially on a Saturday afternoon in Dublin when the far right traitors come out to play.

Masks aren't a magic bullet.. Lucky there wasn't a fine for not wearing them back during the peak of the pandemic..

Sardonicat

Hellrazer wrote: »

I would be all in favour of fines but only for people not wearing masks when required.
I was in Maynooth Lidl on Sunday and I counted at least 10 people with no masks.
I asked the manager and he told me it was nothing to do with him and to basically go away.

I was in Italy in August and the difference is night and day. No mask - no entry into anywhere. Fines if you dont wear one. And they have less cases than us.
You even have to wear a mask going to your table in a pub / restaurant. Going to to the toilet its mask on and off when you get back to your table.

Italy introduced mandatory mask wearing sooner than most other countries in Europe and they are well down the charts at 46 cases per 100000 today.

I firmly believe that if we got mask wearing to a level similar to Italys ie fines for not wearing them,making shops responsible for their customers not wearing them we could live quite easily with covid and have a reasonably open society.

I really can't understand why retail don't enforce mask wearing.

Hellrazer

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Masks aren't a magic bullet..
..

To be completely honest I think that while they arent a magic bullet if we had more compliance we wouldnt be where we are now.

Hellrazer

Sardonicat wrote: »

I really can't understand why retail don't enforce mask wearing.

Because they dont want to deal with the scum who wont wear them. And the garda arent going to show up to your local tescos for someone not wearing a mask!!!
Needs to be actual enforecment.

Coralcoras

Last February I would have said no. Not because I believe measures don’t work To limit the transmission of the virus (I was one of those first few atypical shoppers that wore one), but I felt it infringed on my autonomy and liberty. I believed in the beginning people would ‘do the right thing’ and see the situation through my eyes. However I no longer feel this way.

Shoppers in certain supermarket chains were not wearing masks. I can see this influencing the mask fence-sitters. I know the science behind face coverings isn't robust at present, but it is all we have at present and in general does point towards a reduction in transmission.

My own brother, a really lovely young professional in his early 20’s, can’t help but party wherever and whenever he can. The conscientiousness he had in the beginning just fizzled away. This behaviour is ubiquitous and beyond young people’s control maybe? I’m glad I’m in my 30s and past the brunt of my hayday.

However now I just feel emotionally and mentally exhausted. I have a 1 year old and I’m very limited with stuff to do. I’m worried about my own mental health...my OCD flares up more frequently although I’m trying my best to stay ahead of it. I’m also sad when I think about all the social activities my child is/will miss out on. Will this have a negative impact on her too? Only time will tell.

I want this to be over now. What else can me done? Certainly fines will help provide an incentive to wear masks and quit the close contact parties. I’m all for it now if we can get back to normal. Do we suspend all inward travel of non-nationals? I would happily volunteer some time to do contract tracing etc.. anything to help but it’s not the done thing at present. How about organised outdoor activities...people need to have some outlet.

This question really belongs to a bigger debate. What are we able to ‘Sustainably sacrifice’ until a vaccine arrives.

quokula

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

There is a magnitude of difference between what you have listed above and the introduction of anti socialising fines to prevent the spread of a respitory illness.

The current restrictions will likely seperate families for Christmas, and you want fines to ensure that happens??

If you cant grasp the dangers of the introduction of such I cant explain it for you.

But I will ask that once introduced, at what point is it removed?

There's a pretty strong parallel with fines for speeding in fairness. It's a fine for ignoring a rule that a certain cohort of people think doesn't apply to them because they selfishly believe the benefit they gain by breaking the rule is worth endangering the lives of other people.

Tenzor07

Hellrazer wrote: »

To be completely honest I think that while they arent a magic bullet if we had more compliance we wouldnt be where we are now.

We were told not to wear them by Holohan, we listened to doctors who said they only work effectively in sterile environments, they have to be changed after every use for disposables and washed at 60c for non-disposables...

If the authorities are serious then re-using surgical masks and not washing re-usable ones also needs to become a penal offense, otherwise it's missing the point of wearing them at all...

Sardonicat

Hellrazer wrote: »

Because they dont want to deal with the scum who wont wear them. And the garda arent going to show up to your local tescos for someone not wearing a mask!!!
Needs to be actual enforecment.

I wish I could thank this post a thousand times over. A bit of naming and shaming in the local press wouldn't go amiss either. Do they not understand that their behaviour has forced carers and those they care for into total lock down since March? No services, no break. They whinge about human rights while not giving a sh1t about the rights of the most vulnerable and those who care for them. It boils my blood.

Sardonicat

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We were told not to wear them by Holohan, we listened to doctors who said they only work effectively in sterile environments, they have to be changed after every use for disposables and washed at 60c for non-disposables...

If the authorities are serious then re-using surgical masks and not washing re-usable ones also needs to become a penal offense, otherwise it's missing the point of wearing them at all...

That could be dealt with with a better public awareness campaign with a strong message akin to the road safety campaigns. This softly, softly, "we're all in it together' with animation and happy clippy music has to stop. Present a direct link between lack of use and imore per use to the end result of same.

Inquitus

Yes, for sure, we need some level of enforcement of these rules, every knacker now knows its just "advice" and can be ignored, so Level 3 as proposed isn't going to change the behaviours of the people who need to change.

Tenzor07

Sardonicat wrote: »

That could be dealt with with a better public awareness campaign with a strong message akin to the road safety campaigns. This softly, softly, "we're all in it together' with animation and happy clippy music has to stop. Present a direct link between lack of use and imore per use to the end result of same.

I think Ireland has one of the strongest public awareness campaigns of many EU countries, Covid signs everywhere, public announcements, social media ads, radio/tv constant advertisements... it's impossible to avoid unless you stop reading Irish news....

xhomelezz

Hellrazer wrote: »

To be completely honest I think that while they arent a magic bullet if we had more compliance we wouldnt be where we are now.

Exactly, no one says masks are magic bullet. Strongly believe if all people would just follow the basic measures, masks, SD, hygiene etc. Our numbers would be somewhere else and no need for other restrictions. But sure as we see, that's not possible. Some flouting measures just for fun, some flouting cuz omg my freedom is taken away etc. Unfortunately we'll all pay at the end doesn't matter what.

Tenzor07

xhomelezz wrote: »

Exactly, no one says masks are magic bullet. Strongly believe if all people would just follow the basic measures, masks, SD, hygiene etc. Our numbers would be somewhere else and no need for other restrictions. But sure as we see, that's not possible. Some flouting measures just for fun, some flouting cuz omg my freedom is taken away etc. Unfortunately we'll all pay at the end doesn't matter what.

Refresh my memory, when this Virus was really taking off in March/April and the numbers of cases and deaths were higher.. how many wore masks?

Hellrazer

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We were told not to wear them by Holohan,l...

In all fairness we were also told that children were "super spreaders" - now apparently they arent.
Ive said it before in another thread and Ill say it again - I think we were wrong to reopen the schools.

The cases have only increased since schools reopened - Schools reopened in September - Jump in cases 2 weeks after that. They need to re-evaluate that advice aswell.

xhomelezz

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Refresh my memory, when this Virus was really taking off in March/April and the numbers of cases and deaths were higher.. how many wore masks?

Well I was. Was following news from other European countries who implemented them early. Wouldn't know how about the others.

ginoginelli

Absolutely. On the spot 50 euro fines. Guards can use a sum up type machine like they do in other countries. Bring it in for not wearing maks or not social distancing. It would be a huge deterrent and would give guards the power to police protest safety.

There seems to be about 10 percent of society that will simply not comply unless they face some type of punishment. Fines will go along way in enforcing compliance.

Tenzor07

Mr.S wrote: »

€100 on the spot fine for not wearing a mask on public transport, shops etc. Incremental increases each time caught after. Who cares if a mother of 4 is caught, wear a ****ing mask or pay the fine.
€5,000 on the spot fine if you break restricted movements after travelling abroad or tested positive / close contact with a positive test while you wait for results.
Give Gardai whatever powers they need to enforce it.
It's only effective if we actually enforce it - otherwise what's the point?
It's infuriating going into a shop / public transport and seeing someone without a mask on. Likewise seeing people on social sharing photos of them out and out after being on holidays to a non-greenlist countries.
Of course that will never happen as people would revolt at the thought of it.

Did you see these people breaking the social distance rule indoors!? They should have had the police present to hand out fines or be held until a squad car arrived.. I don't even see them wearing masks.. Double fine or imprisonment!

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1313112496316837888

funnydoggy

^ Horrible carry on. Let them grieve for f*ck sake

pgj2015

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Do you see the slippery slope here?

No. we are in an emergency situation and those protestors are only going to make things worse. drastic times call for drastic measures.

weldoninhio

Mallory Great Woodpecker wrote: »

Firstly there are already large fines and jail time available as punishment for not wearing masks in supermarkets but I fully agree fines for leaving county, house parties, meeting in groups outdoor (protests etc) all need to have heavy fines.

People dont agree with most fines but they pay them.

Don't pay then court and higher fines or jail time. Fast track a few example cases to court and punish them heavily and slap it all over the new. Any other imbeciles thinking of not pay will be quick to change their mind when they see the consequences.

We've violent criminals with hundreds of convictions walking the streets because of a lack of prison spaces and clowns want jail time for people doing what people have been doing for millenia, socialising.

The abject stupidity of it all. We should scrap the search for a Covid vaccine and put all our money and energy into vaccinating stupid, unfortunately for some though it's incurable.

FintanMcluskey

quokula wrote: »

There's a pretty strong parallel with fines for speeding in fairness. It's a fine for ignoring a rule that a certain cohort of people think doesn't apply to them because they selfishly believe the benefit they gain by breaking the rule is worth endangering the lives of other people.

In that case fines must always exist to prevent the spread of seasonal respitory illnesses every year from now on.