Violent Fascist Party Banned in Greece

FTA69

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-54433396

The word ‘Nazi’ gets thrown around a lot but Golden Dawn were probably the closest we had in Europe to a viable neo-Nazi organisation that had real political influence. Much of the strategy that they pursued could have come straight out of the early 1930s, violent targeting of immigrants and undesirables, attempted murders of trade unionists and Communists and an open desire to violently take power and implement a fascist society.

Once again, the case of Golden Dawn proved that in times of widespread economic instability and social change, fascism will find a receptive audience.

biko

They got into Greek parliament in 2012 and lost their seats in 2019. The Greek people decided they didn't want them any more.

In the beginning they were quite popular
In May 2012, the BBC reported on how Golden Dawn had become sort of a local 'Robin Hood' in some high-immigration areas of Athens, since the party was developing a social program which included the delivery of food at minimal or no cost to the most unfavored strata of ethnic Greeks.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Once again, the case of Golden Dawn proved that in times of widespread economic instability and social change, fascism will find a receptive audience.

It's the same with any perceived extremist group. When the normal acceptable methods fail, people turn to the extremes. There's a lot of apathy about our current form of democracy, and governance... along with a desire for "strong" leadership, which tends to be lacking in democratic systems.

Fascism (where a place has a history of it) will swing in and out of favor, depending on how well the country is doing.

Mr. Karate

FTA69 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-54433396

The word ‘Nazi’ gets thrown around a lot but Golden Dawn were probably the closest we had in Europe to a viable neo-Nazi organisation that had real political influence. Much of the strategy that they pursued could have come straight out of the early 1930s, violent targeting of immigrants and undesirables, attempted murders of trade unionists and Communists and an open desire to violently take power and implement a fascist society.

Once again, the case of Golden Dawn proved that in times of widespread economic instability and social change, fascism will find a receptive audience.

The Western Governments are going to have to change or they will be creating the next Nazi party. They've ignored the people they swore an oath for decades. Brexit was the first shot of growing discontent. Trump's election [and most likely re-election] was the second shot.

Tell me how

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The Western Governments are going to have to change or they will be creating the next Nazi party. They've ignored the people they swore an oath for decades. Brexit was the first shot of growing discontent. Trump's election [and most likely re-election] was the second shot.

All of these events have shown that entertaining even fledgling voices of discontent which seek to stand on a platform of overt nationalism and populism are largely empty vessels making a lot of noise.

The path to preventing the rise of the extremists is encouraging continued engagement amongst the majority of the population in matters relating to national governance so the wing nuts don't build up a head of steam through ignoring reality.

P.S. At this point, Trump is more likely to be returned to Walter Reed than he is to be returned as President.

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

All of these events have shown that entertaining even fledgling voices of discontent which seek to stand on a platform of overt nationalism and populism are largely empty vessels making a lot of noise.

The path to preventing the rise of the extremists is encouraging continued engagement amongst the majority of the population in matters relating to national governance so the wing nuts don't build up a head of steam through ignoring reality.

P.S. At this point, Trump is more likely to be returned to Walter Reed than he is to be returned as President.

:pac::pac:

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

All of these events have shown that entertaining even fledgling voices of discontent which seek to stand on a platform of overt nationalism and populism are largely empty vessels making a lot of noise.

The path to preventing the rise of the extremists is encouraging continued engagement amongst the majority of the population in matters relating to national governance so the wing nuts don't build up a head of steam through ignoring reality.

P.S. At this point, Trump is more likely to be returned to Walter Reed than he is to be returned as President.

I think you're underestimating their potential for growth considering the way the world is going. As long as our politicians allow mass migration (in it's current form), there will be a feeding of people into the right wing groups, simply because as more migrants arrive, there will be less resources available for those who need them, in addition to rising costs due to the governments ever increasing need to provide. In addition to this, the push of modernisation, with automation will make a host of current professions obsolete, which will only feed the resentment since there isn't the system in place to support or provide for those who lose their jobs/lifestyles.

That's just two problems facing Europe right now, but I could have picked a dozen more, all of which will feed into resentment for people from the bottom rungs of socio-economic groups, into the middle class. They'll turn away from the traditional parties because they've failed to improve things, their successes will be dismissed, in favor of focusing on the failure of democracy. Many people don't feel to be represented, considering the narrow range of choice in political groups/leaderships.

So... I suspect we'll be seeing a far greater movement towards the right or far left wing groups over the next two decades.

RWCNT

I read TellMeHow's post as more saying that the right wing populists like Trump and the architects of Brexit have shown there isn't much in the way of actual governmental competence to back up their bluster, as opposed to their lack of potential for electoral success, but I'll let them return to clarify. If that is their point then I agree.

Tell me how wrote: »

The path to preventing the rise of the extremists is encouraging continued engagement amongst the majority of the population in matters relating to national governance so the wing nuts don't build up a head of steam through ignoring reality.

Can you be a bit more specific here? What do you have in mind?

ancapailldorcha

FTA69 wrote: »

Once again, the case of Golden Dawn proved that in times of widespread economic instability and social change, fascism will find a receptive audience.

It will but hopefully the examples of the far right being in government and showing themselves incapable of anything but graft will help to counterbalance their narrative. I'm not hopeful but not too fearful either. We've seen the likes of Trump and Bolsonaro humiliate themselves and their nations time and time again.

But you know regardless of whether you see yourself as left/centre/right/neutral of anything, the other side doesn't simply go away because you don't like them. Hilary Clinton going on live TV to describe anyone with the temerity to vote for Trump as some sort of card carrying Klansman hillbilly didn't do much to unify the country either.

jmayo

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The Western Governments are going to have to change or they will be creating the next Nazi party. They've ignored the people they swore an oath for decades. Brexit was the first shot of growing discontent. Trump's election [and most likely re-election] was the second shot.

But they are not learning that they have to change.
Ok eventually EU and some of it's leaders starting copping on and stopping the likes of the boat pickup service in the Med.

But just look at Ireland where every politician and the media ganged up on Casey the moment he dared raise certain topics.
Then it was Grealish that got hounded.

Tell me how wrote: »

All of these events have shown that entertaining even fledgling voices of discontent which seek to stand on a platform of overt nationalism and populism are largely empty vessels making a lot of noise.

The path to preventing the rise of the extremists is encouraging continued engagement amongst the majority of the population in matters relating to national governance so the wing nuts don't build up a head of steam through ignoring reality.

P.S. At this point, Trump is more likely to be returned to Walter Reed than he is to be returned as President.

But the centre and what passed for normal left wing supporters and voters in the past have been abandoned.
The modern left has been hijacked by numpties no longer concerned with the work conditions, the living conditions, the social conditions of the normal working class.
The fight for equality between men and women is realistically won, now they argue for special treatment as opposed to equality, now they argue for the rights of self identifying genders even at the expense of women,
They fight for the rights of the non worker, they fight for the rights of migrants to take what few jobs are going to be left after globalisation and mass automation have absorbed most of them. They fight for their entry so that there will be even less resources to go round.

And what passed for the centre are competing with the left to try out do them in the charts of twitter and facebook likes.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It will but hopefully the examples of the far right being in government and showing themselves incapable of anything but graft will help to counterbalance their narrative. I'm not hopeful but not too fearful either. We've seen the likes of Trump and Bolsonaro humiliate themselves and their nations time and time again.

You speak with the arrogance of the modern political and social media loving establishment.

So far we have bumbling idiots trying to harness the move of ordinary people to the right.

But be very afraid because sooner or later a cleverer more savvy operator is going to come along.

Just look at France. The outright bigotry of Jean Marie Le Pen was replaced with the softer face of his daughter Marine Le Pen.
And if Marion Maréchal re-enters the political sphere she would be possibly next in line.

Clinton and the democrats' arrogance gifted the election to Trump.
They ignored whole states, because heck they had always voted for democrats since the 60s or the 80s.
Well thick and all as Trump and his gang of eejits are they spotted a gap and waltzed right through it.

Cameron's upper class English establishment arrogance tried to call the bluff of the Brexiteers within his own party and in the competing UKIPs.
And he failed throwing his country into mayhem and disaster.

Arrogance and stupidity are not just in the remit of the right.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

The modern left has been hijacked by numpties no longer concerned with the work conditions, the living conditions, the social conditions of the normal working class.

The modern left didn't occupy a vacant property as a means to protest the lack of housing in the country?

The modern left haven't been out in solidarity with Debenham workers?

The modern left didn't lead protest against obscene water charges which would have affected the working class most harshly?

Which parties voted against the Social Democrats motion on Workers Rights back in July? It wasn't the lefties.

The modern left are still fighting all the traditional left wing battles. Social justice has always been, and continues to be, a core pillar of leftism, which is what I daresay you're hinting at with the above quote.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

The modern left didn't occupy a vacant property as a means to protest the lack of housing in the country?

The modern left haven't been out in solidarity with Debenham workers?

The modern left didn't lead protest against obscene water charges which would have affected the working class most harshly?

Which parties voted against the Social Democrats motion on Workers Rights back in July? It wasn't the lefties.

The modern left are still fighting all the traditional left wing battles. Social justice has always been, and continues to be, a core pillar of leftism, which is what I daresay you're hinting at with the above quote.

The Left's biggest problem at the moment is that they are too willing to lend an ear to the modern "woke" crowd, many of whom aren't even remotely left, in terms of greater social issues, like health, housing, welfare or jobs. They have no idea regarding traditional left wing values, because they weren't around when those fights were being fought and get their opinions largely from bogus US social politics. So, they drown themselves in useless identity issues and concern themselves with easy victories, taking part in silly Twitter campaigns and compete with each other in shouting the loudest because it increases their profile.

They'll never get any joy with the modern right, however, who are to a large degree made up of cunts and certainly don't reflect the values of an older style Conservatism, of which there is a lot to be admired. The modern right are just as concerned with their own Twitter campaigns and will engage in all sorts of gibberish too.

Meanwhile, middle grounders are continually bemused at the junk that passes for politics in the 21st century.

But as long as the Left are willing to, at least, hear out the more extreme forms of this "woke" nonsense, they will be an easy target for the more wankerish element of the Right, who'll use them to strawman the Left and any and all opportunity.

Melanchthon

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The Western Governments are going to have to change or they will be creating the next Nazi party. They've ignored the people they swore an oath for decades. Brexit was the first shot of growing discontent. Trump's election [and most likely re-election] was the second shot.

Brexit and Trump aren't comparable to Golden Dawn though, the OP isn't exaggerating when he called them fascists, they really are, it's not like Brexit where you have wide range of supporters coming from different viewpoints.

Melanchthon

Melanchthon wrote: »

Brexit and Trump aren't comparable to Golden Dawn though, the OP isn't exaggerating when he called them fascists, they really are, it's not like Brexit where you have wide range of supporters coming from different viewpoints.

Well it is and it isn't. I mean from what I can see people dismissed as far right nutters at least make an attempt to address perfectly legitimate questions raised by voters which are otherwise ignored by existing sitting TDs.

I'll give you an example. A few years back everyone was outraged when the leader of the National Front in the UK, an open and blatant fascist, was invited to speak on a BBC discussion program. This happened because because he stood for public election, submitted his policies to the voters, and was given public office.

Now, I don't like this guy. I don't agree with him and I don't sympathise with him on anything. But when I saw him debating against members of the Labour, Tory, and LibDem parties he was the only one who made a genuine attempt at answering fair and reasonable questions.

I mean I didn't actually like the answers, but he was the only one who even tried to deliver them. If extremists are better at explaining their points of view then moderates, some of whom can't even be bothered to try, then honestly I can't blame people who eventually start drifting to far left/right.

FTA69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well it is and it isn't. I mean from what I can see people dismissed as far right nutters at least make an attempt to address perfectly legitimate questions raised by voters which are otherwise ignored by existing sitting TDs.

I'll give you an example. A few years back everyone was outraged when the leader of the National Front in the UK, an open and blatant fascist, was invited to speak on a BBC discussion program. This happened because because he stood for public election, submitted his policies to the voters, and was given public office.

Now, I don't like this guy. I don't agree with him and I don't sympathise with him on anything. But when I saw him debating against members of the Labour, Tory, and LibDem parties he was the only one who made a genuine attempt at answering fair and reasonable questions.

I mean I didn't actually like the answers, but he was the only one who even tried to deliver them. If extremists are better at explaining their points of view then moderates, some of whom can't even be bothered to try, then honestly I can't blame people who eventually start drifting to far left/right.

Who? Nick Griffin from the BNP? That was a disaster for them and was a big in them going wallop, even he himself admits that was a fiasco if I recall correctly.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

The modern left didn't occupy a vacant property as a means to protest the lack of housing in the country?

The modern left haven't been out in solidarity with Debenham workers?

The modern left didn't lead protest against obscene water charges which would have affected the working class most harshly?

Which parties voted against the Social Democrats motion on Workers Rights back in July? It wasn't the lefties.

The modern left are still fighting all the traditional left wing battles. Social justice has always been, and continues to be, a core pillar of leftism, which is what I daresay you're hinting at with the above quote.

And it is this modern left that would be very pro immigration, which will have even worse results for workers.
It is also this modern left that fight for the rights of the non workers (the lifelong ones) who sponge off the workers.

Of course the laughable thing is most of the left see the perennial welfare careerists as "working class" when in fact the word work should never be associated with them as it an anathema to them.

They fight for the rights of workers one minute and the next they are fighting for some other group to screw them over.

And I can never figure out why the modern left in Ireland are very much anti property taxes?
Surely it is unfair that a working class person is subsidising the usage of services by very rich.

jmayo wrote: »

...
So far we have bumbling idiots trying to harness the move of ordinary people to the right.
...

Actually want to somewhat clarify the above.

I don't seriously think most people have moved politically to the right, but rather politics, the media and the social media classes have moved drastically left or probably more correctly up their own behinds when you look at some of the outlandish ideas.

By the way that statement is not covering the US, where there has been drastic rise of the right looney religious fringe who have been courted in particular one party.
The right religious have been gaining in prominence since the 80s.

In Ireland and in UK what would pass for a left wing person years ago is now deemed a fascist by today's standards.

Tony EH

jmayo wrote: »

Of course the laughable thing is most of the left see the perennial welfare careerists as "working class" when in fact the word work should never be associated with them as it an anathema to them.

In your head, maybe. While the Left may view a welfare system as an essential part of civil protection, and I agree with it especially in a country like Ireland, it's far from the truth that people who never work and have no intention of ever working are seen in any more favorable light as anyone else.

jmayo wrote: »

And I can never figure out why the modern left in Ireland are very much anti property taxes?

Because in this country it's aimed at ordinary people who just want a home and is disproportionately damaging to those on the lower rungs of the ladder. A "property tax" should be aimed at people who own multiple properties and are wealthy enough to not feel the damage. It shouldn't aimed at a family home, which ends up just being another burden for ordinary people, especially when times are rough.

Plus, our system of property taxes are bullshit. You, literally, get nothing back in return for them. Before 1979, Ireland had a system of rates, which made more sense as that money went into taking care of local infrastructure. But FF got rid of that in an election move.

In short, a property tax should be a wealth tax. Not a tax on a home.