2kw outdoor heaters on 13a plug?

GSPfan

Hey everyone, am i mad to think that you can’t just plug a 2kw heater into an outdoor socket and call it a day?

So the scenario is that a family member bought 2 of these things for the garden and thought they’d just plug them in. The problem I have with that is the fact the outdoor socket is part of the kitchen socket circuit so it’s not a dedicated circuit.

The other problem is that there’s 2 of these, so surely that’s going to cook the 2.5 T&E wiring?

I’m a qualified electrician who hasn’t worked as an electrician for donkeys years so I’m lost when it comes to the regs these days and calculating cable size but surely these things need to be on their own circuit? If not 2 separate dedicated circuits?

Lenar3556

The wiring should be ok - 2.5t&e is typically good for 27A. Two heaters plugged into a one double socket outlet however would likely exceed the rating of the socket, which are usually rated at 13A total.

Ring circuits tend to be designed in such a manner that they are capable of supporting enough electric heaters to heat the space in which the circuit is serving - but that goes out the window with outdoor heaters!

Best idea would be to plug them into separate circuits or at least separate socket outlets on the same circuit. But even if they were plugged into the one double socket it’s a modest enough overload - not going to spontaneously ignite - assuming the installation is otherwise sound.

iwillhtfu

Only drawing around 8.5A at peak load. Could it trip being on a kitchen circuit along with other devices? possibly but one should be fine. Your energy provider will be delighted with you

GSPfan

Lenar3556 wrote: »

The wiring should be ok - 2.5t&e is typically good for 27A. Two heaters plugged into a one double socket outlet however would likely exceed the rating of the socket, which are usually rated at 13A total.

Ring circuits tend to be designed in such a manner that they are capable of supporting enough electric heaters to heat the space in which the circuit is serving - but that goes out the window with outdoor heaters!

Best idea would be to plug them into separate circuits or at least separate socket outlets on the same circuit. But even if they were plugged into the one double socket it’s a modest enough overload - not going to spontaneously ignite - assuming the installation is otherwise sound.

Thanks. That makes sense. To be honest I neither wired the house or know what is on each circuit so I advised them to get an electrician (a real one) to look at running a dedicated circuit/circuits for them. I’m probably being overly nervous about it.

GSPfan

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Only drawing around 8.5A at peak load. Could it trip being on a kitchen circuit along with other devices? possibly but one should be fine. Your energy provider will be delighted with you

I know. I wouldn’t be bothered installing these and would advise against it but they went and bought them on impulse.

Outdoor heating? Haveya heard of climate change or melting icefields?

Get a jacket please.

kippy

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Outdoor heating? Haveya heard of climate change or melting icefields?

Get a jacket please.

Pretty much every pub/hotel and restaurant is getting kitted out with these at the minute - a by product of Level 3 regulations!

heroics

GSPfan wrote: »

I know. I wouldn’t be bothered installing these and would advise against it but they went and bought them on impulse.

We just got our garden redone and the electrician put in a separate circuits for the heaters (2*2kw electric heaters) and sockets/lights.

Are electric heaters not more efficient than the gas patio heaters?

Them too. Talk about filling a bucket with a hole in it...:rolleyes:
The planet is firing warning shots across the bow, wise up! Level whatever biohazard, colour whatever weather warnings...

Just because we as a species justify our behaviour amongst ourselves does not make it correct.

You know it takes double the power it uses to deliver it in a cable. It'd be more ecological to light a fire in a barrel.

440Hertz

Op could well be using a 100% green energy plan these days.

Green or not...using it to heat the atmosphere?

440Hertz

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Green or not...using it to heat the atmosphere?

Heating the atmosphere would be pointless. They’re sources of radiant heat that heats the surfaces they’re pointed at.

The most environmentally unfriendly source of outdoor heat is probably gas as you’re burning a fossil fuel to produce a flame, most of the energy of which is moving away as convection of hot gases. If you’re burning gas, you should be extracting maximum efficiency eg in an efficient boiler that captures the energy.

Burning renewable wood is CO2 neutral if it’s from managed and replanted sources, but produces lot of local pollution which isn’t viable in a built up area if there’s a lot of fires burning.

An IR lamp type heater will heat surfaces / people sitting in front of it. It does not heat the air. If it’s sourcing its power from a CO2 neutral supply, it’s having no impact.

A vast majority of Irish grid power is generated using gas, peat and coal transmitted with 50% losses compared to the embedded energy in the source fuel.
Er....burning wood...I think that was reassessed a while back as not renewable in that there's double the gases released in combustion than sequestered over the lifetime of the plant....citation needed.

440Hertz

The reality is that without them this year we are looking at probably the loss of a large chunk of the economy as people won’t eat and drink in the cold and with covid in the background, that’s where we are - al fresco dining in a climate that isn’t suitable for it.

In normal times, I’d agree with limiting them but in current times were looking at loss of thousands of jobs. Also their use is probably offset by shutting off heating in unused dining spaces.

Is the irony of creating environment fallout in lieu of environmental fallout being lost on everyone?

It's akin to opening the roads with bulldozers and chainsaws after them 100 year storms are hitting us every decade.

440Hertz

Covid-19 isn’t environmental fallout.
I agree though we need to reduce CO2 output and we will do this year, largely due to reduction in commuting, work from home, reduced flights and ultimately a reduction in economic activity.

If we want to retain the restaurant and pub sector, it’s going to have to be feasible to eat outside this winter. The overall environmental impact, heaters or not, will be very much reduced this year.

440Hertz

440Hertz wrote: »

Covid-19 isn’t environmental fallout.

Side effect.
Business as usual will be the end of us. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow...


I'm not tring to save the planet by the way, that'll recuperate. It's just the resident species in jeopardy. It's probably too late anyway, we've already started a chain reaction.