FBI Thwarts Plot by Militia(s) to Kidnap, Try, Execute Gov. of Michigan

francois

Sand wrote: »

No, 'militia' in the US context is commonly used to designate white right wing armed groups. The use of the term here is a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters as the FBI is desperately trying to make white domestic terrorism a thing.

I would have thought the FBI had a clearer picture than some randomer posting on boards

Billy Mays

Sand wrote: »

No, 'militia' in the US context is commonly used to designate white right wing armed groups. The use of the term here is a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters as the FBI is desperately trying to make white domestic terrorism a thing.

Do you not think it's a thing yourself then?

Sand

francois wrote: »

I would have thought the FBI had a clearer picture than some randomer posting on boards

Maybe even an insider perspective on the whole thing.

Sand

Billy Mays wrote: »

Do you not think it's a thing yourself then?

Nope, tiny and irrelevant in the context of the rampage of violence happening in the US.

Quantum Erasure

Gervais08 wrote: »

Oh bless. Google “electoral college” pet.

Democracy in action, darling

endacl

Man with broke phone wrote: »

The FBI are democrats. Proven lying democrats that will try everything they can to pin something on Trump. Nothing sticks. They arnt credible anymore.

Are you sure you’re not man with broke brain?

FTA69

Sand wrote: »

No, 'militia' in the US context is commonly used to designate white right wing armed groups. The use of the term here is a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters as the FBI is desperately trying to make white domestic terrorism a thing. I'd say its highly likely the FBI were actually the ones to inspire and organise this plot.

This is conspiratorial nonsense. The idea the FBI is trying to bring down Trump because he’s some sort of anti-establishment crusader and all this craic.

America has a host of right wing people prone to violent actions, it has always had this dynamic. These people were a group of extreme libertarian, anti-big government types; they weren’t some shower of left wing anarchos.

It’s gas really; your point is essentially ‘theyre lefty agitators and even if they’re not the FBI invented the whole thing’.

Makes no sense mate.

Billy Mays

Sand wrote: »

Nope, tiny and irrelevant in the context of the rampage of violence happening in the US.

Well the director of the FBI, who Trump appointed, testified that it is so you'll forgive me for taking his word over Sand's from the internet

MOH

Sand wrote: »

And in any case, we have the guys own anarchist and anti-trump views voiced in his own words so we're not just relying on the flag. Even if there was no flag, there is still enough to disprove the desperate FBI/media narrative of terrorist white militias.

I'm fairly sure kidnapping elected officials, staging a trial, and executing them would be included under most people's definition of terrorism.

From the pictures released, they seem to be white.

And seven of them are members of a militia group.

So I'm not really clear on how calling them a "terrorist white militia" can be described as a "desperate narrative"?

Whether they're pro- or anti-Trump is irrelevant.
Although when the US President tweets "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" and the group of people then plan to storm the state capitol and kidnap the governor, it's hard not to draw a connection. Especially when at least two of them were in the original group to converge on the state capitol shortly after Trump's tweet.

But life is full of weird coincidences.

Chris_Heilong

Deleted User wrote: »

Brietbart is not a reliable source

Possibly more reliable than the likes of The New York Times or CNN, American news are all very partisan regardless of sides, in this case I used them to find the image that helped prove my statement, regardless of the written content you should trust your eyes.

RWCNT

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Possibly more reliable than the likes of The New York Times or CNN, American news are all very partisan regardless of sides, in this case I used them to find the image that helped prove my statement, regardless of the written content you should trust your eyes.

There are far right people who are extremely anti government that also call themselves anarchists - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement - it's been a thing for a while.

It's a niche position reserved for absolute headers.

Sand

FTA69 wrote: »

This is conspiratorial nonsense. The idea the FBI is trying to bring down Trump because he’s some sort of anti-establishment crusader and all this craic.

That isnt what I said though. Swing and a miss.

Billy Mays wrote: »

Well the director of the FBI, who Trump appointed, testified that it is so you'll forgive me for taking his word over Sand's from the internet

Which say's more about Trump's unique ability to appointment people who undermine him than anything else. Anyway, you don't have to believe me - just view the suspects own video rants and then tell me he is a maga hat wearing good ole boy redneck Trump supporter.

MOH wrote: »

So I'm not really clear on how calling them a "terrorist white militia" can be described as a "desperate narrative"?

When people say right wing militias or white militias, they really mean white racist militias. The FBI and powers that be have been trying to push this meme that there is a seething mass of violent racist white people that need to be dealt with. There isnt, certainly nothing on the scale of Antifa and BLM.

RWCNT

Sand wrote: »

That isnt what I said though. Swing and a miss.



Which say's more about Trump's unique ability to appointment people who undermine him than anything else. Anyway, you don't have to believe me - just view the suspects own video rants and then tell me he is a maga hat wearing good ole boy redneck Trump supporter.



When people say right wing militias or white militias, they really mean white racist militias. The FBI and powers that be have been trying to push this meme that there is a seething mass of violent racist white people that need to be dealt with. There isnt, certainly nothing on the scale of Antifa and BLM.

Who are these other miscellaneous "powers that be"? Also, what do you think the FBI's motivation is for skewing the data to exaggerate the threat of white supremacist terrorism?

Sand

As an aside, I think people believe the FBI crack these 'terrorist' plots by somehow stumbling across a clue and by great detective work tracking down the cell in a race against time. In reality, the FBI setup the plot, recruit the patsys, radicalize them and coerce them to carry out the plot, provide them with the means and then swoop in and arrest them. From the beginning to the end its an FBI plot and the participants are typically damaged or ill people who likely wouldn't have done anything without the FBI pushing them to do so.

They did it to Muslims when it suited the narrative, and now they're doing it to White people because it suits the narrative. You guys may be comfortable with that, but I'm not.

RWCNT

Sand wrote: »

As an aside, I think people believe the FBI crack these 'terrorist' plots by somehow stumbling across a clue and by great detective work tracking down the cell in a race against time. In reality, the FBI setup the plot, recruit the patsys, radicalize them and coerce them to carry out the plot, provide them with the means and then swoop in and arrest them. From the beginning to the end its an FBI plot and the participants are typically damaged or ill people who likely wouldn't have done anything without the FBI pushing them to do so.

They did it to Muslims when it suited the narrative, and now they're doing it to White people because it suits the narrative. You guys may be comfortable with that, but I'm not.

What is "the narrative", who's narrative is it? What is it trying to achieve and for whom?

MOH

Sand wrote: »

When people say right wing militias or white militias, they really mean white racist militias. The FBI and powers that be have been trying to push this meme that there is a seething mass of violent racist white people that need to be dealt with. There isnt, certainly nothing on the scale of Antifa and BLM.

No, they don't. If you read "right wing militia" and decide that includes "racist", that's happening inside your head.

excludedbin

If right wing terrorist groups also have a habit of being racists (and they do) that's on them. It's not some grand conspiracy by the ****ing FBI of all organisations. Jesus, the persecution complex right wingers haul around is truly the stuff of legend.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

And in any case, we have the guys own anarchist and anti-trump views voiced in his own words so we're not just relying on the flag. Even if there was no flag, there is still enough to disprove the desperate FBI/media narrative of terrorist white militias.

Uhm what?

They are white

They are Terrorists

They are a self described militia

MOH

Overheal wrote: »

Uhm what?

They are white

They are Terrorists

They are a self described militia

Yeah, I tried that already, no joy.
Maybe it might work in a different order?

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

Uhm what?

They are white

They are Terrorists

They are a self described militia

I'll meet you half way - anarchists/antifa such as the ones arrested for this act and similar goups are domestic terrorists and should be treated as such.

But there's no evidence of right wing militia groups in the US posing a comparable threat. That is just a meme invented by the FBI.

Moghead

paw patrol wrote: »

thats where you're wrong.
if covid has thought the people of the USA anything , it's their freedom are very fragile.

They need more militias

Nah their freedom isn't under threat. They have no need for militias.

Mr. Karate

What are the odds that she's down in the polls and tried to Jussie Smollett herself some sympathy votes?

Smee_Again

Mr. Karate wrote: »

What are the odds that she's down in the polls and tried to Jussie Smollett herself some sympathy votes?

Her approval rating has been growing steadily thanks to her handling of the Covid crises, up 15 points between January and September.

Billy Mays

Mr. Karate wrote: »

What are the odds that she's down in the polls and tried to Jussie Smollett herself some sympathy votes?

Enjoy your night mate

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

I'll meet you half way - anarchists/antifa such as the ones arrested for this act and similar goups are domestic terrorists and should be treated as such.

But there's no evidence of right wing militia groups in the US posing a comparable threat. That is just a meme invented by the FBI.

What’s your evidence that the FBI is fabricating that?

Doctor Jimbob

It's funny how Trump's cheerleaders love to harp on about law and order until it applies to some of their own crowd.

It's almost as if it has nothing to do with law and order at all.

Overheal

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's funny how Trump's cheerleaders love to harp on about law and order until it applies to some of their own crowd.

It's almost as if it has nothing to do with law and order at all.

As soon as law and order shows up they accuse it of being the deep state.

Deebles McBeebles

Sand wrote: »

I'll meet you half way - anarchists/antifa such as the ones arrested for this act and similar goups are domestic terrorists and should be treated as such.

But there's no evidence of right wing militia groups in the US posing a comparable threat. That is just a meme invented by the FBI.

Utter nonsense. Right out of the QAnon playbook.

MOH

Sand wrote: »

But there's no evidence of right wing militia groups in the US posing a comparable threat. That is just a meme invented by the FBI.

Apart from the ones kidnapping governors.

1800_Ladladlad

Trumps to blame for everything. The gimps were BLM supporting degenerates.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1314326553506000897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1314326553506000897%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redstate.com%2Fbonchie%2F2020%2F10%2F10%2Fwhitmer-kidnapping-plotter-was-blm-supporter-didnt-care-about-trump%2F

Overheal

Sand

The defence for these antifa guys has argued in federal court that this whole case is just "big talk between crackpots," or "people who talk a lot ... but are never going to do anything."

"Have you ever dealt with big talkers?" defense attorney Scott Graham asked an FBI agent on cross-examination, adding: "There's kind of a military-wanna-be theme that runs between the militias."

The FBI needs to show the conspiracy was serious and planned, but when challenged by the defence the FBI agent was unable to explain how the charged planned to get governor to Wisconsin. An alternative claim is that the group intended to maroon the governor in the middle of Lake Michigan - again the FBI was unable to explain what the plan was after this. More and more it sounds like these losers were just living out a walter mitty fantasy to feel important.

Unsurprisingly, the defence has pointed out that one of the most vocal leaders of "the plan" was an FBI informant, acting under the direction of the FBI.

It seems like the whole incident has been manufactured by the FBI for political purposes. Certainly, that's how many in this thread are attempting to exploit it.

Overheal

More evidence from the plot has been released to the public.

These are videos the group recorded of itself, and its preparations for what is clearly much more than a kidnapping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jllwlidfuhc

https://twitter.com/ReardonReports/status/1317242046999126016?s=20

https://twitter.com/ReardonReports/status/1317242590132113410?s=20

https://twitter.com/ReardonReports/status/1317242945209290752?s=20

And a video log from one of them

https://twitter.com/ReardonReports/status/1317243309560135680?s=20

Overheal

Another incident involving a threat against an elected official for 'mask tyranny' much like this group

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/wichita-musician-arrested-for-allegedly-threatening-to-kidnap-and-kill-mayor-over-opposition-to-masks-and-tyranny/

But the man in this case seemed to be acting alone and was texting and threatening people directly, not nearly the coordination or planning as the group against Whitmer, but the motivating factor against masks is similar.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

That isnt what I said though. Swing and a miss.



Which say's more about Trump's unique ability to appointment people who undermine him than anything else. Anyway, you don't have to believe me - just view the suspects own video rants and then tell me he is a maga hat wearing good ole boy redneck Trump supporter.



When people say right wing militias or white militias, they really mean white racist militias. The FBI and powers that be have been trying to push this meme that there is a seething mass of violent racist white people that need to be dealt with. There isnt, certainly nothing on the scale of Antifa and BLM.

It's a tad telling when posters who have views that overlap with those of white supremacists and they get outraged that intelligence agencies identify them as the greater threat...

Sand

One of the suspects, a man named Daniel Harris, attended BLM rallies and gave an interview in June to the Oakland County Times.

“It is a shame what happened with George Floyd and instances where law enforcement officers murder an unarmed man/woman who isn’t resisting arrest, was complying with the orders is wrong and need to be stopped. You look at photos and videos of news teams and protesters being beaten by riot police when they are there peacefully, you see people losing their eyes because of an officer shoots them with a ‘non-lethal’ round like pepper balls, or rubber bullets,” he said at the time. “I’ve gone through that sort of training and I can promise you weapons like that they can turn into a lethal round.”

“We went to the BLM protest yesterday in Lake Orion to show our support that everyone’s voice should be heard, no matter the color on your skin. Protesting is important to me because it gives us all a voice to be heard,” he added.

These guys are antifa/BLM supporters. They should be treated as domestic terrorists on those grounds alone. As I said earlier, how disheartening must it be for them that regardless of their convictions when it comes right down to it all their "allies" see them as is angry white men. There is a lesson there for many.

MOH

Sand wrote: »

They should be treated as domestic terrorists on those grounds alone.

But more importantly on the grounds that they're a terrorist white militia who plotted to kidnap a governor. Glad you agree

RWCNT

Sand wrote: »

One of the suspects, a man named Daniel Harris, attended BLM rallies and gave an interview in June to the Oakland County Times.

“It is a shame what happened with George Floyd and instances where law enforcement officers murder an unarmed man/woman who isn’t resisting arrest, was complying with the orders is wrong and need to be stopped. You look at photos and videos of news teams and protesters being beaten by riot police when they are there peacefully, you see people losing their eyes because of an officer shoots them with a ‘non-lethal’ round like pepper balls, or rubber bullets,” he said at the time. “I’ve gone through that sort of training and I can promise you weapons like that they can turn into a lethal round.”

“We went to the BLM protest yesterday in Lake Orion to show our support that everyone’s voice should be heard, no matter the color on your skin. Protesting is important to me because it gives us all a voice to be heard,” he added.

These guys are antifa/BLM supporters. They should be treated as domestic terrorists on those grounds alone. As I said earlier, how disheartening must it be for them that regardless of their convictions when it comes right down to it all their "allies" see them as is angry white men. There is a lesson there for many.

You're right that they profess support for BLM, that doesn't make them "antifa" though. You don't know as much about this stuff as you think you do. The Boogaloo Bois (ridiculous name) are an extreme right group and have had a strong presence at the George Floyd protests. Their motives for doing so have been called into question.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-53018201

Billy Mays

BLM supporters should be treated as terrorists :pac: :pac:

Where the f*ck do you pull this guff from???

Sand

RWCNT wrote: »

You're right that they profess support for BLM, that doesn't make them "antifa" though. You don't know as much about this stuff as you think you do. The Boogaloo Bois (ridiculous name) are an extreme right group and have had a strong presence at the George Floyd protests. Their motives for doing so have been called into question.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-53018201

I think the political classifications of right and left are outdated, and its clear when people are attempting to classify libertarians and neo-nazis under the same "extreme right" category.

I'm not all knowing and all seeing, but what I've seen of these guys and their views so far makes it very clear they're not inspired by Trump (at least positively), despite the OP on this thread attempting to link Trump to this group. Much more of their inspiration comes from anarchist/antifa/BLM idealogy. There has been a strong theme of "resistance" - armed or otherwise- since the Trump election and all the hysteria it was greeted with. This group of losers talking about bringing down the government from their basements is just one more example of it.

It's also clear the FBI essentially ran this plot from the very start, which is typically how these terrorist plots are born. It would be interesting to see transcripts of the group communications and review what role the FBI informants/agents had in organising and inducing the others.

Sand

MOH wrote: »

But more importantly on the grounds that they're a terrorist white militia who plotted to kidnap a governor. Glad you agree

Thanks for reinforcing my point. Despite all the rhetoric and their own political convictions, your analysis of them rests entirely on them being white. I at least am willing to dig a little deeper.

How depressing for those guys. They destroyed their lives for nothing.

ancapailldorcha

Sand wrote: »

How depressing for those guys. They destroyed their lives for nothing.

They're terrorists. They have agency and now they have to live with the consequences of what they did.

Somehow, I don't see non-white terrorists getting the same sympathy here.

Sand

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They're terrorists. They have agency and now they have to live with the consequences of what they did.

Somehow, I don't see non-white terrorists getting the same sympathy here.

I don't sympathize with them. I'm laughing at them.

MOH

Sand wrote: »

Thanks for reinforcing my point. Despite all the rhetoric and their own political convictions, your analysis of them rests entirely on them being white. I at least am willing to dig a little deeper.

How depressing for those guys. They destroyed their lives for nothing.

I'm a bit flattered, but an accurate description is hardly an in-depth analysis.
They're a miliita, they're terrorists, and they certainly appear to be white.
Given the latter is the bit you seem to have an issue with, I'm willing to learn where I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that they're not all white? Maybe I should go to Specsavers.

Agree though, it is so sad that it was all for nothing and they failed in their goal to kidnap and murder elected officials.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

One of the suspects, a man named Daniel Harris, attended BLM rallies and gave an interview in June to the Oakland County Times.

“It is a shame what happened with George Floyd and instances where law enforcement officers murder an unarmed man/woman who isn’t resisting arrest, was complying with the orders is wrong and need to be stopped. You look at photos and videos of news teams and protesters being beaten by riot police when they are there peacefully, you see people losing their eyes because of an officer shoots them with a ‘non-lethal’ round like pepper balls, or rubber bullets,” he said at the time. “I’ve gone through that sort of training and I can promise you weapons like that they can turn into a lethal round.”

“We went to the BLM protest yesterday in Lake Orion to show our support that everyone’s voice should be heard, no matter the color on your skin. Protesting is important to me because it gives us all a voice to be heard,” he added.

These guys are antifa/BLM supporters. They should be treated as domestic terrorists on those grounds alone. As I said earlier, how disheartening must it be for them that regardless of their convictions when it comes right down to it all their "allies" see them as is angry white men. There is a lesson there for many.

So ... huh?

Anyone who understand Black Lives Matter and is against fascism is a terrorist?

Sand

MOH wrote: »

I'm a bit flattered, but an accurate description is hardly an in-depth analysis.
They're a miliita, they're terrorists, and they certainly appear to be white.
Given the latter is the bit you seem to have an issue with, I'm willing to learn where I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that they're not all white? Maybe I should go to Specsavers.

It's telling that they're identified by their skin colour, rather than their politics or their goals. I doubt you'd ever have described Osama Bin Laden as a brown terrorist.

Agree though, it is so sad that it was all for nothing and they failed in their goal to kidnap and murder elected officials.

I said depressing for them, not sad. I think it's amusing that they put so much effort into their antifa/BLM politics, yet they cant escape being white.

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

So ... huh?

Anyone who understand Black Lives Matter and is against fascism is a terrorist?

Antifa arent defined by being opposed to 'fascism'. They're defined by their preference to use violence to achieve their goals. They clearly reject non-violent means as insufficient, so yes anyone who aligns with them is a terrorist. BLM again very clearly both practices violence and supports violence. BLM has inspired numerous murders, assaults, burnings and assorted crimes. No justice, no peace right? So again, terrorists.

If you can come up with some kafkaesque definition of terrorism that excludes the goal motivated violence of both groups good for you, but I'll call a spade a spade.

Overheal

Washington Post breaking news, several of the men who plotted to assassinate the Governor were documented attending multiple Trump-endorse anti-lockdown aka. "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" rallies this year:














Tons of photos and videos available from these events you can imagine. Imagine it will be the morning news as well. Dates highlighted are rallies on April 30, May 14,18,20, Jun 6 and 18.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/11/01/michigan-kidnapping-plot-coronavirus-lockdown-whitmer/?arc404=true&itid=hp_alert

At events where the men were present, protest organizers, conservative activists and even law enforcement officers told crowds that the governor had grievously infringed on Michiganders’ rights, The Post examination found. Some equated Whitmer’s stay-at-home orders to mass arrests that demanded citizens resist — the kind of language Whitmer has said stoke threats against her.

At rallies, especially in the spring and early summer, defendants displayed a range of political opinions. One repeatedly promoted positions and slogans of President Trump. Others attended a Black Lives Matter protest and held up signs expressing solidarity over excesses of authority, although some participants said they were disruptive. Still another called himself Libertarian in a live stream from Lansing.

But the examination also shows that the defendants increasingly came to display patches, insignias and other symbols identified with the “boogaloo” movement, a sometimes violent anti-government ideology that sees a coming civil war and has spread quickly online this year. In one case, an American flag on a defendant’s hat was replaced in June with a boogaloo flag.

Of the six federally charged in October with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, the Post examination found three — Fox, Ty Garbin and Daniel Harris — who attended protests. Five of the eight men facing state charges — William Null, Michael Null, Joseph Morrison, Paul Bellar and Pete Musico — also were active since April in protests.

The men either have pleaded not guilty or not yet entered pleas, as prosecutors have sought delays in the cases. The U.S. attorney’s office has filed for an extension until December, saying it needs time to analyze apparent bombmaking materials seized around the times of the arrests.

The Post placed the defendants at rallies by comparing booking photos and other confirmed images of the men against more than 20 hours of video and hundreds of images from the events. Beyond facial traits, The Post identified distinctive features such as tattoos, name tags and unusual clothing and tactical gear. In every case, The Post identifications were then confirmed by acquaintances of the defendants, including friends, family members, fellow protesters or — for Harris, Musico and Garbin — their lawyers.

Fox’s public defenders and attorneys for the Nulls did not return multiple emails and phone messages. An attorney for Morrison said he could not comment until he received more information from prosecutors. A series of attorneys representing Bellar as he was extradited to Michigan did not return messages and an attorney listed in court records on his state case did not respond to an email seeking comment.

MadYaker

Anything linking these guys to the ones who tried to run Biden’s bus off the road?

Billy Mays

The state of those Call of Duty wank3rs

Overheal wrote: »

Douchebag on the right even has his own name tag :pac: :pac:

Patriots