What is the actual rationale for keeping people inside their counties?

Tenzor07

Multipass wrote: »

Agreed, they already have limits on the numbers gathering - where they come from is irrelevant since Covid is already nationwide. Most people I know who are crossing county boundaries are doing so to be out in nature - to get to the hills, lakes, woods. Exactly what people need to do for their health. I obeyed in March, not this time around.

These guidelines are just being thought up on one of those little Sticky Notes stuck to the laptop screen of some overpaid Government advisor in Merrion street!

The entire country is on L3 so no one is crossing the county lines to go have a beer, a meal or stay at a hotel..So to have draconian restrictions like this does Nothing!

If you go to the Dublin hills at the weekends you have cars almost parked on top of each other at the entrance to forest parks, dozens upon dozens of families walking along paths barely wide enough for 2 people in some cases.. And families sat down in the middle of downhill mountain bike tracks having a picnic.....

One way to spread the virus through close contact is to throw up a Police barrier around a county with over 1 million residents... So well done NPHETFFFG!

Strumms

a148pro wrote: »

Right. So you're allowed travel around your own county, and spread the disease?

You are allowed to travel around your county. It’s necessary...

People need to eat, buy food, medicine, toiletries, clothes and other essentials.

I think you might need to be of the ability to travel if you work too. It’s logical.

Going outside your county by and large won’t be ‘essential ‘

Imagine a large sports hall
Divide it into 8 squares,
5 people per square, There is lots of room to social distance.
In each square 1 person has covid

What do you think would be the best way to manage it?
A) Restrict the movement of people so they can’t leave their square ( they can keep a safe distance from each other)
Or
let everyone in the sports hall be free to leave their square and move about the room

I’m gonna choose option A) much easier to manage and control. If there is a big problem with a particular square, it doesn’t have to affect the other squares

Option would make COVID infect everyone in the room much quicker
The restrictions to each county is not ideal, but it’s the best option other than total lockdown.

Level 3 is not a perfect solution. There is no perfect solution. This is why you have people on this thread saying it makes no sense to them as the shops are just over the bridge, in the next county. These scenarios can not be avoided unless we have a real convoluted list of rules that nobody can understand and would be impossible to police.

So everyone just suck it up, follow the rules, and let’s give ourselves the best chance of returning to normal, Instead of burying our heads in the sand and demanding normal now

a148pro

You make a good point, it is easier for the authorities to manage areas in units. And, in so far as different counties are differentiated, I support that. I support not letting people leave or go into one county which has particularly high levels. Its a rational decision. A given person from a given county might be 2 or 3 times more likely to be carrying the virus. Therefore it makes sense to try and keep them out of countries with a lower incidence.

But when both counties are more or less the same it becomes pointless.

I should say I'm also starting to think the same about foreign travel. Assuming there is no extra risk involved in the journey itself I don't think it matters if you've been abroad, provided the country you've been in has the same incidence rate and provided you are behaving the same in that country as you do at home. So I'm not sure why the new plan seems to envisage a test before and after, at the traveller's expense. I don't need a test right now to walk down the street, why should I after coming back from Germany? Again, assuming there isn't a risk associated with travel itself.

Deleted User wrote: »

So everyone just suck it up, follow the rules, and let’s give ourselves the best chance of returning to normal, Instead of burying our heads in the sand and demanding normal now

I'm not demanding normal now. I don't expect to be able to go into a packed bar or nightclub or restaurant. I just expect to be able to do things, in the outdoors, which are not in any way dangerous from a public health perspective, without committing a criminal offence. I don't think that's too much to ask.

a148pro

a148pro wrote: »

I just expect to be able to do things, in the outdoors, which are not in any way dangerous from a public health perspective, without committing a criminal offence. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Me too. But I’m sure everyone has a way of justifying the things that are important to them. The problem is, if they say you must stay in your county, unless you are doing something outdoors, it just becomes impossible to police.

The majority of people have followed the guidelines, unfortunately a lot did not, and now we can’t be trusted.

auspicious

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s the simplest rule to have. Most idiots should be able to understand what staying in your county means.
It’s also the simplest rule to police.
How else should the government try and restrict people’s movement while still letting us out of our houses

What is hard to grasp about this

Okay my post was somewhat nonsensical, cryptic I'll say
I have a colleague whom lives in Boyle County Roscommon. Carrick On Shannon in leitrim where they always do their household shopping is ten minutes away, yet their family ( mother in this case) have taken to travelling to Roscommon Town twice the distance away.
I asked why they didn't just tell the guards COS was closer but she said they wanted to follow guidelines.
Just an observation/ anecdote.

a148pro

Sorry to be like a broken record but I was up in dublin mountains today. Rammed. Busier than i've ever seen. Cars and cyclists everywhere. People parking where they could. Noticeably quieter over wicklow boundary. Presumably people trying to comply with the guidance.

So the net effect is that an activity, exercising outside, which must have close to zero public health risk, and proven mental health benefits, is arbitrarily restricted. Those that comply instead put themselves at much greater risk due to the throngs and doubtless have a much lesser experience because they're going to be worried about so may people around.

Now why is this apart from bad governance?

DaveCliftonAP

Parabellum9 wrote: »

Phil Hogan can travel acrosss Europe to attend a dinner and the other golfgate pricks can do whatever they want but Joe Soap better stay in your county cos the gardai are doing checkpoints? **** outta that, it might have been accepted in March/April but they can go jump at this stage.

I assume you will be resigning from your job when you break restrictions, since we don't want it to be one rule for Phil Hogan and another for us Joe Soaps?

questionmark?

auspicious wrote: »

Okay my post was somewhat nonsensical, cryptic I'll say
I have a colleague whom lives in Boyle County Roscommon. Carrick On Shannon in leitrim where they always do their household shopping is ten minutes away, yet their family ( mother in this case) have taken to travelling to Roscommon Town twice the distance away.
I asked why they didn't just tell the guards COS was closer but she said they wanted to follow guidelines.
Just an observation/ anecdote.

The guidelines say you can travel outside your county for essential reasons. Getting the weekly shopping is an essential reason as per the guidelines. If COS is ten mins away then they should continue shopping there and not be undertaken unnecessary extra long journey!

crae

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Imagine a large sports hall
Divide it into 8 squares,
5 people per square, There is lots of room to social distance.
In each square 1 person has covid

What do you think would be the best way to manage it?
A) Restrict the movement of people so they can’t leave their square ( they can keep a safe distance from each other)
Or
let everyone in the sports hall be free to leave their square and move about the room

I’m gonna choose option A) much easier to manage and control. If there is a big problem with a particular square, it doesn’t have to affect the other squares

Option would make COVID infect everyone in the room much quicker
The restrictions to each county is not ideal, but it’s the best option other than total lockdown.

Level 3 is not a perfect solution. There is no perfect solution. This is why you have people on this thread saying it makes no sense to them as the shops are just over the bridge, in the next county. These scenarios can not be avoided unless we have a real convoluted list of rules that nobody can understand and would be impossible to police.

So everyone just suck it up, follow the rules, and let’s give ourselves the best chance of returning to normal, Instead of burying our heads in the sand and demanding normal now

But the biggest issue is the people in their square spreading to everyone in their square.

Very few cases are traced to other counties and almost none to other countries. It’s local spread and clusters that is the major issue.
Most spread traced is through schools, nursing homes, sports and other big gatherings (weddings etc)
If I’m sick and sit in my car and do a tour to every national park in Ireland I infect no one.
Or if someone in athlon goes to their summer house in Killarney, they infect no one.

If I stay in my county and go to a wedding and then play a football game with the guys and then my kid goes to school, I might be the source of hundreds in my county.
“Just” shutting down schools would be 100 times more effective then banning travel.
Travel is not the issue, not at all, as with most diseases; gatherings of people are!

But it’s politically easier to shut down a road than a school. Even though it’s mostly pointless.
They want to seem to do something.

Anyway, my thoughts.
Either way, would hate to be a politician these days. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t...

crae

a148pro wrote: »

Sorry to be like a broken record but I was up in dublin mountains today. Rammed. Busier than i've ever seen. Cars and cyclists everywhere. People parking where they could. Noticeably quieter over wicklow boundary. Presumably people trying to comply with the guidance.

So the net effect is that an activity, exercising outside, which must have close to zero public health risk, and proven mental health benefits, is arbitrarily restricted. Those that comply instead put themselves at much greater risk due to the throngs and doubtless have a much lesser experience because they're going to be worried about so may people around.

Now why is this apart from bad governance?

Yeah, park next to me has never been as full as last weekend.
Crazy packed and people parking everywhere.
Because usually people would go down to Wicklow or trips to summer houses etc. Now they are staying put.
So instead of spreading out the population of Dublin during weekends , it’s concentrating it to a few places. Possibly increasing spread.

As I said in my previous post. Travel by itself is not an issue at all, it’s gatherings; concentrating people in an area that is.

boardlady

I completely agree with you OP. If my darling mother lived in the same county as me we could be seeing each other - with caution - for months now. But between lockdown, illness in my home, level 3 where she lives, and now a country wide travel ban, I have not seen her since June and prior to that, since Christmas! It's devastating that the inter-county ban is making me so miserable when I am compliant with everything else.

alentejo

a148pro wrote: »

Sorry to be like a broken record but I was up in dublin mountains today. Rammed. Busier than i've ever seen. Cars and cyclists everywhere. People parking where they could. Noticeably quieter over wicklow boundary. Presumably people trying to comply with the guidance.

So the net effect is that an activity, exercising outside, which must have close to zero public health risk, and proven mental health benefits, is arbitrarily restricted. Those that comply instead put themselves at much greater risk due to the throngs and doubtless have a much lesser experience because they're going to be worried about so may people around.

Now why is this apart from bad governance?

I think the original county rule or 20km was a better rule than an arbitrary county restriction.

trixi001

boardlady wrote: »

I completely agree with you OP. If my darling mother lived in the same county as me we could be seeing each other - with caution - for months now. But between lockdown, illness in my home, level 3 where she lives, and now a country wide travel ban, I have not seen her since June and prior to that, since Christmas! It's devastating that the inter-county ban is making me so miserable when I am compliant with everything else.

You do know the travel ban is unenforceable - so just go.

Where is the additional risk in you travelling 30km within your county to visit your mother (from a distance of course) and travelling 30km across 1 or even 2 county borders to do the same?

I did the same as you and didn't see my family from early March to June and it made me so miserable and depressed - there is no way i am prepared to do it again!

trixi001

bubblypop wrote: »

Which is why they are now trying to restrict movement. It's not rocket science!
The biggest issue is the border with northern Ireland, they need to restrict that, quickly, lockdown the.crossings now!

Again where is the rationale for this?

NI is in lockdown again anyway - so people aren't crossing to go to a pub or restaurant etc..

The North is doing more tests (per capita) - so yes their rates are higher, but they are also high in Border regions of the South - look at Buncrana and Lifford. If testing was equal Donegal and Derry would be at similar rates. Some villages in Donegal are essentially commuter villages for Derry, peoples homes are in Donegal, but their life is in Derry - nearest shops, family, work, schools etc

People in Lifford (Donegal) live 1-2km from Asda in Strabane,but some guards are telling people they can't cross the border - so instead they have to travel over 20km to get some shopping.. is it not actually safer to travel shorter distances - regardless of county borders?

The previous rule of 20km or county made far more sense.

Limerick and Waterford are the same - people live in a different county which is essentially a part of greater Limerick or Greater Waterford,

trixi001

trixi001 wrote: »

Again where is the rationale for this?

NI is in lockdown again anyway - so people aren't crossing to go to a pub or restaurant etc..

The North is doing more tests (per capita) - so yes their rates are higher, but they are also high in Border regions of the South - look at Buncrana and Lifford. If testing was equal Donegal and Derry would be at similar rates. Some villages in Donegal are essentially commuter villages for Derry, peoples homes are in Donegal, but their life is in Derry - nearest shops, family, work, schools etc

People in Lifford (Donegal) live 1-2km from Asda in Strabane,but some guards are telling people they can't cross the border - so instead they have to travel over 20km to get some shopping.. is it not actually safer to travel shorter distances - regardless of county borders?

The previous rule of 20km or county made far more sense.

Limerick and Waterford are the same - people live in a different county which is essentially a part of greater Limerick or Greater Waterford,

I'm well aware of How it works thanks!
My own home town is beside the border.
Personally, I think they should close the border down like they did for foot & mouth disease.

It makes it simple you see, stay within your county. Easy for everyone to understand. Also easier to police.
Obviously.

uli84

They may advise whatever they want, i travelled to Spain and I will travel to Wicklow if i wish so, I mean like **** I’m a free person and can make the judgement. Majority of population can. Obviously.